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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

 
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RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/12/2013 8:51:57 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Interesting... an idiot who can discern levels of comprehension.



Gave me quite a chuckle.


edit: I didn't mean to backhandedly insult you Warspite, instead I was commenting on how it seemed how your rage had attacked your grammar in such a way that was pure Horrorshow. Specifically, the Ludovico technique http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludovico_Technique

< Message edited by Zorachus99 -- 10/12/2013 8:58:46 PM >


_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2341
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/12/2013 9:21:52 PM   
WIF_Killzone

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
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No comment, except, Warspite, thanks so much for all your hard work, Extraneaus, thanks for trying to make them perfect. Nuff said.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2342
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/13/2013 7:06:12 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I could quite justifiably get a tad miffed at that comment. But I do not wish to fall out with you and so would instead ask you please to explain what exactly the issue is with the unit / units.

No I am not talking about the SNLF Force / Forces as clearly neither of us are experts and we have to agree to disagree.

I am talking about post 2327 and the latest subject of your ire and which has led to the latest unpleasantness.




Post 2327

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed"

When using a singular subject you can't use "were".

You can use either
"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF) - which were generally deployed" or
"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which was generally deployed"


warspite1

I wasn't. I was talking about units. Please re-read the sentence.

Good catch on Guard (guard) though. I also prefer parachute to airborne too - I will amend.


I cannot explain this any clearer than this.

You cannot use a singular subject and then use a verb for a plural subject.

The Sentence

Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

Just for everyone's information: A brigade can be as large as two regiments with attached smaller units or as little as single battalion with attached smaller units.


What was deployed? Answer: The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.

How were they deployed? Answer: In units of brigade size or smaller.

This makes the subject of the sentence: the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.



Which means that the sentence should be written:

In a Plural Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -

Or

In a Singular Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which was generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -



Don't get the idea I am yelling. I just need the bold font to highlight the information.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2343
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/13/2013 8:48:03 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

You cannot use a singular subject and then use a verb for a plural subject.

The Sentence

Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

What was deployed? Answer: The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.

How were they deployed? Answer: In units of brigade size or smaller.

This makes the subject of the sentence: the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.


Which means that the sentence should be written:

In a Plural Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -

Or

In a Singular Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which was generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -

Which is right?
1. The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade etc.
Or
2. the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units - which was generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade etc.

You've conveniently left out the word "units" in your format examples. (Likely because you're still fixated on your pointless preoccupation with whether they were a Force or they were Forces.)

And yet you say yourself the subject of the sentence is "the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units" which can just as easily be expressed as: "the units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force" and thus the correct way to write it is: "the units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force which were generally deployed... etc." And indeed in post 2327 Warspite stated clearly he was talking about "units", and indeed that's how he correctly wrote his draft.

Isn't there somewhere else you can go to practice your innate brand of ludicrous non-esoterica?

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2344
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/13/2013 9:49:10 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I could quite justifiably get a tad miffed at that comment. But I do not wish to fall out with you and so would instead ask you please to explain what exactly the issue is with the unit / units.

No I am not talking about the SNLF Force / Forces as clearly neither of us are experts and we have to agree to disagree.

I am talking about post 2327 and the latest subject of your ire and which has led to the latest unpleasantness.




Post 2327

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed"

When using a singular subject you can't use "were".

You can use either
"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF) - which were generally deployed" or
"the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which was generally deployed"


warspite1

I wasn't. I was talking about units. Please re-read the sentence.

Good catch on Guard (guard) though. I also prefer parachute to airborne too - I will amend.


I cannot explain this any clearer than this.

You cannot use a singular subject and then use a verb for a plural subject.

The Sentence

Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

Just for everyone's information: A brigade can be as large as two regiments with attached smaller units or as little as single battalion with attached smaller units.


What was deployed? Answer: The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.

How were they deployed? Answer: In units of brigade size or smaller.

This makes the subject of the sentence: the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units.



Which means that the sentence should be written:

In a Plural Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -

Or

In a Singular Format
the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which was generally deployed in units of brigade size smaller -



Don't get the idea I am yelling. I just need the bold font to highlight the information.
warspite1

Okay, I think I see the confusion.

My sentence:

Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

Your further clarification (with my responses in bold and "units" underlined).

What was deployed? Answer: The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units. Correct. I am trying to explain how World In Flames can use SNLF units, when those units were, in reality, never operated in anything more than a brigade strength. I am not therefore talking about the SNLF as a whole here – but the component parts.

How were they deployed? Answer: In units of brigade size or smaller. Correct as per above.

This makes the subject of the sentence: the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units. Correct. I am talking about the 1st Kure or the 2nd Yokosuka or whatever.

Where I believe your version is wrong is that when you then provide the sentence you have missed off the first part – and it is that first part that defines whether Were or Was is appropriate.

So if we remove the contentious issue of the SNLForce or SNLForces and look again at the sentence I hope you can see that what I have done is correct – it’s the depiction of UNITS of the SNLF – which were….. I cannot say UNITS of the SNLF which was.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/13/2013 9:50:33 AM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2345
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/13/2013 8:56:57 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
Why not change the wording to reflect that these units were elite, and were rarely operated above brigade strength?

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(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2346
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/14/2013 7:33:12 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99

Why not change the wording to reflect that these units were elite, and were rarely operated above brigade strength?
warspite1

I have mentioned that they were elite in the write-up. I also mentioned that they operated in brigade strength or less, and which is why their use in World In Flames is ahistorical.

Apart from the Force / Forces issue (which no one seems to have a definitive answer on - I even asked in the WITP-AE forum and the answers there seemed to indicate I was correct (but not conclusively)) I do not believe there is any issue with the sentence I wrote.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/14/2013 7:46:03 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 2347
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/14/2013 2:29:42 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck (the troll)

Which is right?
1. The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade etc.
Or
2. the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units - which was generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade etc.

You've conveniently left out the word "units" in your format examples. (Likely because you're still fixated on your pointless preoccupation with whether they were a Force or they were Forces.)

And yet you say yourself the subject of the sentence is "the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units" which can just as easily be expressed as: "the units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force" and thus the correct way to write it is: "the units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force which were generally deployed... etc." And indeed in post 2327 Warspite stated clearly he was talking about "units", and indeed that's how he correctly wrote his draft.

Isn't there somewhere else you can go to practice your innate brand of ludicrous non-esoterica?


Troll ~ a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


Its called editing. Both are right. I left it up to the writer as to which one they prefer while trying to maintain their stream of thought as I understood his writing.

Still having problems finding a subject to write about paulderynck (the troll)? Please note the small "t" your a small Troll not even worthy of contempt.

As for "Isn't there somewhere else you can go to practice your innate brand of ludicrous non-esoterica?" read my post on the Beta testers forum.

Author: Mziln.
Keyword: proofreading.



quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

warspite1

Okay, I think I see the confusion.

My sentence:

Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

Your further clarification (with my responses in bold and "units" underlined).

What was deployed? Answer: The Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units. Correct. I am trying to explain how World In Flames can use SNLF units, when those units were, in reality, never operated in anything more than a brigade strength. I am not therefore talking about the SNLF as a whole here – but the component parts.

How were they deployed? Answer: In units of brigade size or smaller. Correct as per above.

This makes the subject of the sentence: the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) units. Correct. I am talking about the 1st Kure or the 2nd Yokosuka or whatever.

Where I believe your version is wrong is that when you then provide the sentence you have missed off the first part – and it is that first part that defines whether Were or Was is appropriate.

So if we remove the contentious issue of the SNLF Force or SNLF Forces and look again at the sentence I hope you can see that what I have done is correct – it’s the depiction of UNITS of the SNLF – which were….. I cannot say UNITS of the SNLF which was.



Breaking down the sentence

1. Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play,
2. the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) - which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade -
3. has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however.

Part 1 and 3 were left intact so if you agree there is no reason to discuss them.


2.
A. the depiction of units of
B. the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) -
C. which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade -


The singular format refers to the SNLF as a individual unit versus the plural format which refers to all the units within the SNLF.


A and B as you have said is your subject. But you have reversed their order by using "of units of" this is cumbersome. That is why I edited it to either...

The Singular Format (meaning the SNLF): "the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF)"
or
The Plural Format (all the SNLF units): "the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF)".

Leaving it up to you to make your choice.

C.
If you use "The Singular Format (meaning the SNLF)" it must be "which was" not "which were".
If you use "The Plural Format (all the SNLF units)" it remains "which were".

"generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade -" this is ambiguous. You could be writing about numbers of troops, units, or anything. I took it as units due to your mention of units at the beginning of the sentence. To maintain your string of thought I edited it to "which was generally deployed in units of a brigade or smaller -" or "which were generally deployed in units of a brigade or smaller -"


Which would give you a choice of:
The Singular Format (meaning the SNLF): "Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF or Tokubetsu Rikusentai) - which was generally deployed in units of a brigade or smaller - has to be necessarily ahistorical."
or
The Plural Format (all the SNLF units): "Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Forces (SNLF or Tokubetsu Rikusentai) - which were generally deployed in units of a brigade or smaller - has to be necessarily ahistorical."


"Tokubetsu Rikusentai" was placed at the first mention of the SNLF in the description since it defines all SNLF units.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2348
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/14/2013 8:33:03 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Troll ~ a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.



_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2349
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/15/2013 5:52:47 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Troll ~ a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people, by posting inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.




And how did I know that your thoughts would fixate on that particular word paulderynck (the troll)

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2350
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/15/2013 8:09:46 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
Same way I knew why you chose it as your pseudonym.

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Paul

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2351
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/15/2013 12:35:50 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

Same way I knew why you chose it as your pseudonym.


Your still unable to pick a subject to post on the forums I see.

Who did you schmooze to get on the Beta? Let me guess someone from the Yahoo Group.

You sure didn't do any write ups that I can remember.


My experence with proofreading comes from taking Offset Printing when I was in high school (it was an elective) along with being a professional Offset printer.

Just for fun just what is your experence with proofreading? Any? Some? None?

I'll bet its none.



If you couldn't find my post on the Beta forums try proofread as a keyword.



You don't know why I chose "Extraneous" as a handle your too young

I chose it when I had a 14400 bit modem.


Since you tried to instruct me to do somthing.

I.E. Isn't there somewhere else you can go to practice your innate brand of ludicrous non-esoterica?

I feal it only fair for me to instruct you to do somthing.

Why don't you drag your little troll self under a bridge and wait for the brothers Billy Goat Gruff.

A childs story for a troll child like you.



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 2352
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/15/2013 12:50:13 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
Could we move on now, please?

I am sure that there are more unit descriptions that needs improvement and attention.

And lets leave the trolls buried below the bridge where they belong. Because I have yet to see a troll here and I do not want to see one either.

So please be nice and move on.

Pretty please.

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Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2353
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/15/2013 1:32:58 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Moving on as requested.

warspite 1 post #: 2311

warspite 1 post #: 2323


Warspite1 refers to 1st SNLF Div and 2nd SNLF Div.

What he means is 1st SNLF and 2nd SNLF division counters. I hope your write ups don't show them as actual Divisions.

In military terms there are Divisions and divisions:
Divisions ~ consist of two or more brigades or regiments. Division is abbreviated as Div.
divisions ~ consist of two Companies.

In WiF a division counter represents any unit of Division size or smaller.


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 2354
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/16/2013 7:41:25 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Moving on as requested.

warspite 1 post #: 2311

warspite 1 post #: 2323


Warspite1 refers to 1st SNLF Div and 2nd SNLF Div.

What he means is 1st SNLF and 2nd SNLF division counters. I hope your write ups don't show them as actual Divisions.

In military terms there are Divisions and divisions:
Divisions ~ consist of two or more brigades or regiments. Division is abbreviated as Div.
divisions ~ consist of two Companies.

In WiF a division counter represents any unit of Division size or smaller.

warspite1

quote:

Warspite1 refers to 1st SNLF Div and 2nd SNLF Div.


Yes I do, because in game terms, there are counters for the 1st SNLF Division and the 2nd SNLF Division. It is as divisions (in addition to the one corps counter) that ADG portray the SNLF units in the game.

quote:

What he means is 1st SNLF and 2nd SNLF division counters.


No, I mean 1st SNLF Division and 2nd SNLF Division (as they are portrayed in the game, as per the above).

quote:

I hope your write ups don't show them as actual Divisions.


No they won't, the write up will once again explain that these are "what-if" counters as the SNLF never operated in divisional strength, and will provide some high level detail re campaigns and battles the various SNLF units fought in - as said, typically in battalion or brigade strength only.

quote:

In military terms there are Divisions and divisions:
Divisions ~ consist of two or more brigades or regiments. Division is abbreviated as Div.
divisions ~ consist of two Companies.


No I think its just capital D if you are naming a specific division or lower case if you are talking about divisions generally. e.g.

"the corps contained two infantry divisions and an armoured division"
or
"the corps consisted of the 43rd (Wessex) Division, the 51st (Highland) Division and the 7th Armoured Division"

As I was talking about specific divisions when referring to the 1st and 2nd SNLF I used the capital D (albeit that they are only real divisions in the game).

quote:

In WiF a division counter represents any unit of Division size or smaller.


Yes I think (iirc - but may be wrong) that artillery when first introduced back in the nineties were shown as brigades i.e. X. The rules still state that "Every brigade size unit is treated as if it were a division", but this statement is probably now redundant as there are no brigades?? [perhaps one of the grognards can clarify?]. Either way, as these SNLF divisions are shown as divisions it would only complicate things to start calling them not divisions!!! I think - but now I'm confused

Edit: to clarify the 3rd and 4th point

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/16/2013 10:15:33 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2355
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/16/2013 5:48:09 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
And here is the 1st SNLF Division counter write-up:


[2171] [Japanese 1st Special Naval Landing Force Marine - by Robert Jenkins]
.P Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) – which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however, and World in Flames allows the Japanese player to build one SNLF corps and two divisions.
.P This counter represents a fictional 1st SNLF Division, while counter 2172 depicts an equally fictional, 2nd SNLF Division. The corps unit appears on counter 2175.
.P During World War II the Japanese did not operate an autonomous marine branch in the way that their US counterparts did. However they did make use of naval troops. Such troops were used to land at vital points – often ahead of a larger force – to seize key objectives.
.P The forerunners of the SNLF (Kaigun Tokubetsu Rikusentai) were used for the first time during the fighting against Russia at the start of the 20th Century. Having proved their worth there and later in Manchuria, the Japanese began raising SNLF units at each of their four main naval bases. Counter 2175 provides a list of the main SNLF units that were available in December 1941.
.P As said above these units, which ranged in size from 750 to 1,600 men, were operated mostly individually, although on a few occasions units were combined.
.P The SNLF were used as elite infantry in the early stages of the Pacific War and were involved in almost all the early campaigns as the Japanese seized one objective after another and inflicted defeat after defeat upon the Allies.
.P Trying to piece together a definitive list of all the SNLFs, their numbers, their deployments and their ultimate fate is next to impossible. However the list below gives an indication of the main operations undertaken by these elite units.
.B Conquest of the Philippines - 1,400 men of the 1st Kure SNLF, and a similar number from the 2nd, took part in the invasion of the Philippines in December 1941.
.B Conquest of the Dutch East Indies - 3,500 men of the combined 1st and 2nd Sasebo SNLFs combined with the 850-strong, parachute-trained 1st Yokosuka SNLF to capture the island of Celebes in March 1942. The 2nd Kure SNLF took part in the earlier Battle of Tarakan.
.B Conquest of Timor - 850 men of the 3rd Yokosuka SNLF were parachuted onto the island.
.B Conquest of Borneo - 750 men from the 2nd Yokosuka SNLF landed on British-owned Borneo in December 1941.
.B Guam - 370 men of the 2nd Maizuru SNLF assisted the capture of Guam in December 1941.
.B Wake Island - 450 men from the 2nd Maizuru SNLF attacked, and were repulsed by, US the US Marine garrison in December 1941. Reinforcements were used for the second attempt later that month, in which 1,000 men from the 2nd Maizuru were deployed - this time successfully.
.B Midway - had the Battle of Midway gone as planned for the Japanese, a mixed force of navy and army troops would have attempted to seize the island. The navy troops would have been provided by the 2,800 men of the 2nd Combined SNLF, made up of the 5th Kure and 5th Yokosuka SNLFs.
.B New Guinea - Elements from the 3rd and 5th Kure, 5th Yokosuka and 5th Sasebo SNLFs (1,500 men) took part in the Battle of Milne Bay in September 1942. This was one of the first defeats inflicted on the Japanese in a land battle.
.B The Solomons - Elements of the 3rd Kure SNLF took part in the initial landing in the Solomon Islands (May 1942). After the American landing on Guadalcanal in August 1942, many SNLF units were dragged into the hopeless fight for the island chain and were bled white, including the 7th Kure, 4th Maizuru, 6th Sasebo and 5th Yokosuka.
.B Defence of the Gilbert Islands - 1,112 men of the 6th Yokosuka SNLF (re-named the 3rd Special Base Defence Force) and 1,497 men of the 7th Sasebo SNLF were wiped out, almost to a man, while defending Tarawa Atoll in November 1943.
.B Defence of the Marianas - Both of the parachute-trained Yokosuka SNLFs (1st and 3rd (merged into the 1st)) were destroyed defending Saipan in June 1944.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/16/2013 5:57:48 PM >


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2356
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/16/2013 9:34:13 PM   
warspite1


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I am working on the three Kiwi land units and here is an outline of the Auckland Militia counter:

[2009] [New Zealand Auckland Militia - by Robert Jenkins]
.P "With gratitude to the past, and with confidence in the future, we range ourselves without fear beside Britain. Where she goes we go. Where she stands, we stand". These were the words of Mickey Savage, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, in September 1939. They were uttered on the 5th of that month, 2 days after the British declaration of War on Germany.
.P The write up for this counter honours the men and women of this sparsely populated, relatively small country, located on the other side of the world and 11,000 miles from the United Kingdom - the "mother country" to which Mr Savage pledged allegiance.
.P Ask yourself this question; which Allied power, after the United Kingdom, spent the most (as a % of its national income) during the war? Yes, it was New Zealand.
.P Other facts:
.B Population in 1939 - 1.6m
.B No. of men and women who served in fighting formations - 140,000 (155,000 in total)
.B War dead - 11,928
.B War dead as a ratio to population (per million) was the highest of all the Commonwealth countries - 6,684.
.P New Zealanders fought in all the main campaigns of World War II alongside their Commonwealth brothers:
.B The first major naval engagement featured a cruiser from the New Zealand Squadron of the Royal Navy - HMS (later HMNZS) Achilles.
.B 135 pilots fought in the Battle of Britain.
.B A New Zealander, Charles Hazlitt Upham, is the only combat soldier to have won the Victoria Cross (the highest award for bravery in the face of the enemy available to most Commonwealth countries) twice.
.B Three other New Zealanders won the award in World War II, all airmen: Leonard Trent (RNZAF), Lloyd Trigg (RAF) and James Ward (RNZAF).
.B New Zealanders fought with distinction in the Western Desert and in Italy.
.P New Zealand was vital to the viability of the United Kingdom in a way that is less than well known. The dominion was able to help keep Britain fed during the war, initially exporting all of her surplus food to the UK. In 1943-44 calls upon her foodstuffs became acute - the US forces in the Pacific needing feeding and British supplies were critically low. As a result, the New Zealand 3rd Division was disbanded to allow more manpower to return to the land to help resolve the crisis.

Need to flesh this out somewhat - anybody got any good NZ facts to add?

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/16/2013 9:43:23 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2357
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/17/2013 12:50:26 PM   
Smokey2

 

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Joined: 4/25/2013
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Warspite

Don't know if this is what you are looking for. It is a summary description of the Territorial Forces raised by NZ. It excludes the 2NZEF (2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force) forces that saw action in Nth Africa and Italy (2nd New Zealand Division – initially the New Zealand Division) and the Pacific (3rd New Zealand Division)

As part of the preparations for the possible outbreak of war in the Pacific, the defensive forces stationed in New Zealand were expanded in late 1941. On 1 November three new brigade headquarters were raised (taking the total in the New Zealand Army to seven), and three divisional headquarters were established to coordinate the units located in the Northern, Central and Southern Military Districts.
• The division in the Northern Military District was designated the Northern Division, and comprised the 1st and 12th Brigade Groups. The 1st Brigade Group had been formed prior to World War II, and the 12th Brigade Group was one of the new headquarters; both these units were part of the Territorial Force and were manned by part-time reservists.
• The division in the Central Military District was designated the Central Division, and comprised the 2nd Infantry Brigade and 7th Brigade Group.
• The division in the Southern Military District was designated the Southern Division, and comprised the 3rd and10th Brigades, and the 11th Brigade Group.
• [Give the Kiwis kudos for their imaginative divisional naming system]
The New Zealand Army was further expanded following the outbreak of the Pacific War. The Territorial Force was fully mobilised on 10 January 1942, and reinforced by 7000 men who had originally enlisted in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force for overseas service. The role of the Territorial Force was to counter any Japanese landings in New Zealand, and it was organised into both mobile and fortress units. The Home Guard would support the Territorial units in the event of an invasion.

About April 1942 the three divisions stationed in New Zealand were transformed into mobile formations and renamed, and the Northern Division became the 1st Division; the Central Division became the 4th Division and the Southern Division became the 5th Division respectively. Until September Territorial Force units across New Zealand were held at eight days notice to respond to an invasion, and defensive positions along the country's coastline were permanently manned.

The forces stationed in New Zealand were considerably reduced as the threat of invasion passed. During early 1943 each of the three home defence divisions were cut from 22,358 to 11,530 men. The non-divisional units suffered even greater reductions. The New Zealand Government ordered a general stand-down of the defensive forces in the country on 28 June, which led to further reductions in the strength of units and a lower state of readiness. By the end of the year almost all of the Territorial Force personnel had been demobilised (though they retained their uniforms and equipment), and only 44 soldiers were posted to the three divisional and seven brigade headquarters. As the war situation continued to improve almost all the remaining Territorial Force units were disbanded on 1 April 1944.

Smokey

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2358
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/17/2013 12:55:58 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

And here is the 1st SNLF Division counter write-up:


[2171] [Japanese 1st Special Naval Landing Force Marine - by Robert Jenkins]
.P Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) – which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however, and World in Flames allows the Japanese player to build one SNLF corps and two divisions.
.P This counter represents a fictional 1st SNLF Division, while counter 2172 depicts an equally fictional, 2nd SNLF Division. The corps unit appears on counter 2175.
.P During World War II the Japanese did not operate an autonomous marine branch in the way that their US counterparts did. However they did make use of naval troops. Such troops were used to land at vital points – often ahead of a larger force – to seize key objectives.
.P The forerunners of the SNLF (Kaigun Tokubetsu Rikusentai) were used for the first time during the fighting against Russia at the start of the 20th Century. Having proved their worth there and later in Manchuria, the Japanese began raising SNLF units at each of their four main naval bases. Counter 2175 provides a list of the main SNLF units that were available in December 1941.
.P As said above these units, which ranged in size from 750 to 1,600 men, were operated mostly individually, although on a few occasions units were combined.
.P The SNLF were used as elite infantry in the early stages of the Pacific War and were involved in almost all the early campaigns as the Japanese seized one objective after another and inflicted defeat after defeat upon the Allies.
.P Trying to piece together a definitive list of all the SNLFs, their numbers, their deployments and their ultimate fate is next to impossible. However the list below gives an indication of the main operations undertaken by these elite units.
.B Conquest of the Philippines - 1,400 men of the 1st Kure SNLF, and a similar number from the 2nd, took part in the invasion of the Philippines in December 1941.
.B Conquest of the Dutch East Indies - 3,500 men of the combined 1st and 2nd Sasebo SNLFs combined with the 850-strong, parachute-trained 1st Yokosuka SNLF to capture the island of Celebes in March 1942. The 2nd Kure SNLF took part in the earlier Battle of Tarakan.
.B Conquest of Timor - 850 men of the 3rd Yokosuka SNLF were parachuted onto the island.
.B Conquest of Borneo - 750 men from the 2nd Yokosuka SNLF landed on British-owned Borneo in December 1941.
.B Guam - 370 men of the 2nd Maizuru SNLF assisted the capture of Guam in December 1941.
.B Wake Island - 450 men from the 2nd Maizuru SNLF attacked, and were repulsed by, US the US Marine garrison in December 1941. Reinforcements were used for the second attempt later that month, in which 1,000 men from the 2nd Maizuru were deployed - this time successfully.
.B Midway - had the Battle of Midway gone as planned for the Japanese, a mixed force of navy and army troops would have attempted to seize the island. The navy troops would have been provided by the 2,800 men of the 2nd Combined SNLF, made up of the 5th Kure and 5th Yokosuka SNLFs.
.B New Guinea - Elements from the 3rd and 5th Kure, 5th Yokosuka and 5th Sasebo SNLFs (1,500 men) took part in the Battle of Milne Bay in September 1942. This was one of the first defeats inflicted on the Japanese in a land battle.
.B The Solomons - Elements of the 3rd Kure SNLF took part in the initial landing in the Solomon Islands (May 1942). After the American landing on Guadalcanal in August 1942, many SNLF units were dragged into the hopeless fight for the island chain and were bled white, including the 7th Kure, 4th Maizuru, 6th Sasebo and 5th Yokosuka.
.B Defence of the Gilbert Islands - 1,112 men of the 6th Yokosuka SNLF (re-named the 3rd Special Base Defence Force) and 1,497 men of the 7th Sasebo SNLF were wiped out, almost to a man, while defending Tarawa Atoll in November 1943.
.B Defence of the Marianas - Both of the parachute-trained Yokosuka SNLFs (1st and 3rd (merged into the 1st)) were destroyed defending Saipan in June 1944.


Did you know I still have the original information that was submitted on the SNLF?



_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2359
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/17/2013 6:12:34 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smokey2

Warspite

Don't know if this is what you are looking for. It is a summary description of the Territorial Forces raised by NZ. It excludes the 2NZEF (2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force) forces that saw action in Nth Africa and Italy (2nd New Zealand Division – initially the New Zealand Division) and the Pacific (3rd New Zealand Division)

As part of the preparations for the possible outbreak of war in the Pacific, the defensive forces stationed in New Zealand were expanded in late 1941. On 1 November three new brigade headquarters were raised (taking the total in the New Zealand Army to seven), and three divisional headquarters were established to coordinate the units located in the Northern, Central and Southern Military Districts.
• The division in the Northern Military District was designated the Northern Division, and comprised the 1st and 12th Brigade Groups. The 1st Brigade Group had been formed prior to World War II, and the 12th Brigade Group was one of the new headquarters; both these units were part of the Territorial Force and were manned by part-time reservists.
• The division in the Central Military District was designated the Central Division, and comprised the 2nd Infantry Brigade and 7th Brigade Group.
• The division in the Southern Military District was designated the Southern Division, and comprised the 3rd and10th Brigades, and the 11th Brigade Group.
• [Give the Kiwis kudos for their imaginative divisional naming system]
The New Zealand Army was further expanded following the outbreak of the Pacific War. The Territorial Force was fully mobilised on 10 January 1942, and reinforced by 7000 men who had originally enlisted in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force for overseas service. The role of the Territorial Force was to counter any Japanese landings in New Zealand, and it was organised into both mobile and fortress units. The Home Guard would support the Territorial units in the event of an invasion.

About April 1942 the three divisions stationed in New Zealand were transformed into mobile formations and renamed, and the Northern Division became the 1st Division; the Central Division became the 4th Division and the Southern Division became the 5th Division respectively. Until September Territorial Force units across New Zealand were held at eight days notice to respond to an invasion, and defensive positions along the country's coastline were permanently manned.

The forces stationed in New Zealand were considerably reduced as the threat of invasion passed. During early 1943 each of the three home defence divisions were cut from 22,358 to 11,530 men. The non-divisional units suffered even greater reductions. The New Zealand Government ordered a general stand-down of the defensive forces in the country on 28 June, which led to further reductions in the strength of units and a lower state of readiness. By the end of the year almost all of the Territorial Force personnel had been demobilised (though they retained their uniforms and equipment), and only 44 soldiers were posted to the three divisional and seven brigade headquarters. As the war situation continued to improve almost all the remaining Territorial Force units were disbanded on 1 April 1944.

Smokey

Do you have a source for this description?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Smokey2)
Post #: 2360
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/17/2013 7:19:42 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Smokey2

Warspite

Don't know if this is what you are looking for. It is a summary description of the Territorial Forces raised by NZ. It excludes the 2NZEF (2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force) forces that saw action in Nth Africa and Italy (2nd New Zealand Division – initially the New Zealand Division) and the Pacific (3rd New Zealand Division)

As part of the preparations for the possible outbreak of war in the Pacific, the defensive forces stationed in New Zealand were expanded in late 1941. On 1 November three new brigade headquarters were raised (taking the total in the New Zealand Army to seven), and three divisional headquarters were established to coordinate the units located in the Northern, Central and Southern Military Districts.
• The division in the Northern Military District was designated the Northern Division, and comprised the 1st and 12th Brigade Groups. The 1st Brigade Group had been formed prior to World War II, and the 12th Brigade Group was one of the new headquarters; both these units were part of the Territorial Force and were manned by part-time reservists.
• The division in the Central Military District was designated the Central Division, and comprised the 2nd Infantry Brigade and 7th Brigade Group.
• The division in the Southern Military District was designated the Southern Division, and comprised the 3rd and10th Brigades, and the 11th Brigade Group.
• [Give the Kiwis kudos for their imaginative divisional naming system]
The New Zealand Army was further expanded following the outbreak of the Pacific War. The Territorial Force was fully mobilised on 10 January 1942, and reinforced by 7000 men who had originally enlisted in the New Zealand Expeditionary Force for overseas service. The role of the Territorial Force was to counter any Japanese landings in New Zealand, and it was organised into both mobile and fortress units. The Home Guard would support the Territorial units in the event of an invasion.

About April 1942 the three divisions stationed in New Zealand were transformed into mobile formations and renamed, and the Northern Division became the 1st Division; the Central Division became the 4th Division and the Southern Division became the 5th Division respectively. Until September Territorial Force units across New Zealand were held at eight days notice to respond to an invasion, and defensive positions along the country's coastline were permanently manned.

The forces stationed in New Zealand were considerably reduced as the threat of invasion passed. During early 1943 each of the three home defence divisions were cut from 22,358 to 11,530 men. The non-divisional units suffered even greater reductions. The New Zealand Government ordered a general stand-down of the defensive forces in the country on 28 June, which led to further reductions in the strength of units and a lower state of readiness. By the end of the year almost all of the Territorial Force personnel had been demobilised (though they retained their uniforms and equipment), and only 44 soldiers were posted to the three divisional and seven brigade headquarters. As the war situation continued to improve almost all the remaining Territorial Force units were disbanded on 1 April 1944.

Smokey
warspite1

Smokey2 this is great. Have you got the source please? If so I can then look to use this in the NZ Territorial counter. I have almost finished the NZ Motorised division, the Auckland militia is 80% done and so the Kiwi's can be finished in time for launch


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Smokey2)
Post #: 2361
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/17/2013 7:21:23 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

And here is the 1st SNLF Division counter write-up:


[2171] [Japanese 1st Special Naval Landing Force Marine - by Robert Jenkins]
.P Due to the scale of World in Flames and the unit sizes in play, the depiction of units of the Japanese Special Naval Landing Force (SNLF) – which were generally deployed in numbers smaller than a brigade - has to be necessarily ahistorical. It is right that these units are included within the game however, and World in Flames allows the Japanese player to build one SNLF corps and two divisions.
.P This counter represents a fictional 1st SNLF Division, while counter 2172 depicts an equally fictional, 2nd SNLF Division. The corps unit appears on counter 2175.
.P During World War II the Japanese did not operate an autonomous marine branch in the way that their US counterparts did. However they did make use of naval troops. Such troops were used to land at vital points – often ahead of a larger force – to seize key objectives.
.P The forerunners of the SNLF (Kaigun Tokubetsu Rikusentai) were used for the first time during the fighting against Russia at the start of the 20th Century. Having proved their worth there and later in Manchuria, the Japanese began raising SNLF units at each of their four main naval bases. Counter 2175 provides a list of the main SNLF units that were available in December 1941.
.P As said above these units, which ranged in size from 750 to 1,600 men, were operated mostly individually, although on a few occasions units were combined.
.P The SNLF were used as elite infantry in the early stages of the Pacific War and were involved in almost all the early campaigns as the Japanese seized one objective after another and inflicted defeat after defeat upon the Allies.
.P Trying to piece together a definitive list of all the SNLFs, their numbers, their deployments and their ultimate fate is next to impossible. However the list below gives an indication of the main operations undertaken by these elite units.
.B Conquest of the Philippines - 1,400 men of the 1st Kure SNLF, and a similar number from the 2nd, took part in the invasion of the Philippines in December 1941.
.B Conquest of the Dutch East Indies - 3,500 men of the combined 1st and 2nd Sasebo SNLFs combined with the 850-strong, parachute-trained 1st Yokosuka SNLF to capture the island of Celebes in March 1942. The 2nd Kure SNLF took part in the earlier Battle of Tarakan.
.B Conquest of Timor - 850 men of the 3rd Yokosuka SNLF were parachuted onto the island.
.B Conquest of Borneo - 750 men from the 2nd Yokosuka SNLF landed on British-owned Borneo in December 1941.
.B Guam - 370 men of the 2nd Maizuru SNLF assisted the capture of Guam in December 1941.
.B Wake Island - 450 men from the 2nd Maizuru SNLF attacked, and were repulsed by, US the US Marine garrison in December 1941. Reinforcements were used for the second attempt later that month, in which 1,000 men from the 2nd Maizuru were deployed - this time successfully.
.B Midway - had the Battle of Midway gone as planned for the Japanese, a mixed force of navy and army troops would have attempted to seize the island. The navy troops would have been provided by the 2,800 men of the 2nd Combined SNLF, made up of the 5th Kure and 5th Yokosuka SNLFs.
.B New Guinea - Elements from the 3rd and 5th Kure, 5th Yokosuka and 5th Sasebo SNLFs (1,500 men) took part in the Battle of Milne Bay in September 1942. This was one of the first defeats inflicted on the Japanese in a land battle.
.B The Solomons - Elements of the 3rd Kure SNLF took part in the initial landing in the Solomon Islands (May 1942). After the American landing on Guadalcanal in August 1942, many SNLF units were dragged into the hopeless fight for the island chain and were bled white, including the 7th Kure, 4th Maizuru, 6th Sasebo and 5th Yokosuka.
.B Defence of the Gilbert Islands - 1,112 men of the 6th Yokosuka SNLF (re-named the 3rd Special Base Defence Force) and 1,497 men of the 7th Sasebo SNLF were wiped out, almost to a man, while defending Tarawa Atoll in November 1943.
.B Defence of the Marianas - Both of the parachute-trained Yokosuka SNLFs (1st and 3rd (merged into the 1st)) were destroyed defending Saipan in June 1944.


Did you know I still have the original information that was submitted on the SNLF?


warspite1

No I didn't. The current write-up is only about six lines....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2362
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/18/2013 12:53:49 AM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
Status: offline
Does it look like this


LG 1943
This unit represents the Imperial Japanese Armys amphibious units.

1 SNLF 1937 SNLF 1940 Special Naval Landing Force (Kaigun Rikusentai)
The Japanese did not have a separate Marine Corps. Originally Rikusentai meant a group of sailors detached from a warship for a special or temporary mission. And later it was included to mean a group of sailors sent from one base force to another. SNLF units were formed as regimental size units varying in size from 700 to 1,800 men. Due to the formation and dissolution of these units the title “1st SNLF” is meaningless.

2 SNLF 1940 Special Naval Landing Force (Kaigun Rikusentai)
The Japanese did not have a separate Marine Corps. Originally Rikusentai meant a group of sailors detached from a warship for a special or temporary mission. And later it was included to mean a group of sailors sent from one base force to another. SNLF units were formed as regimental size units varying in size from 700 to 1,800 men. Due to the formation and dissolution of these units the title “2nd SNLF” is meaningless.

quote:

This is a little extra not part of the original write up

Order of battle of the Battle of Shanghai
Imperial Japanese Navy
Shanghai Special Naval Landing Force - Rear Admiral Denshichi Okawachi
1st Battalion Lt. Cdr. Uroku Hashimoto
2nd Battalion Lt. Shigeshi Sano
3rd Battalion Lt. Shegeru Ito
4th Battalion Disbanded at the outbreak of war, guns were dispersed to the infantry units
9th Battalion Lt. Cdr. Torashige Tsukioka

Special Naval Landing Force reinforcements as of August 1, 1937 from 3rd Fleet
8th Sentai NLF
1st Destroyer Sentai NLF
3rd Destroyer Sentai NLF

Izumo NLFSpecial Naval Landing Force reinforcements August 18-19, 1937
5th Battalion (Sasebo 1st SNLF, 16th Destroyer Division)
6th Battalion (Kure 2nd SNLF)Lt. Cdr. Kinji Baba
7th Battalion (Kure 1st SNLF)Lt. Cdr. Sadaharu Higuchi
8th Battalion (Yokosuka 1st SNLF, 11th Sentai)Lt. Cdr. Giho(?) Takeshita


And from the Axis History Forum ~ Combined SNLF

1st Combined SNLF-China 1937/38

2nd Combined SNLF-China 1938 (Reformed 1942) 2nd Combined SNLF (Yokosuka 5th and Kure 5th SNLFs) - Midway,1942

Sasebo Combined SNLF (Sasebo 1st and 2nd SNLFs) - Menado,Celebes, 1942

7th Combined SNLF (Kure 7th SNLF, 16th and 17th Air Defense Units) - San Isabel,1943

8th Combined SNLF (Yokosuka 7th and Kure 6th SNLFs) - New Georgia,1943

Another six Combined SNLFs (names unknown) were in Japan 1945.



< Message edited by Extraneous -- 10/18/2013 12:55:01 AM >


_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2363
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/18/2013 1:55:19 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Does it look like this


LG 1943
This unit represents the Imperial Japanese Armys amphibious units.

1 SNLF 1937 SNLF 1940 Special Naval Landing Force (Kaigun Rikusentai)
The Japanese did not have a separate Marine Corps. Originally Rikusentai meant a group of sailors detached from a warship for a special or temporary mission. And later it was included to mean a group of sailors sent from one base force to another. SNLF units were formed as regimental size units varying in size from 700 to 1,800 men. Due to the formation and dissolution of these units the title “1st SNLF” is meaningless.

2 SNLF 1940 Special Naval Landing Force (Kaigun Rikusentai)
The Japanese did not have a separate Marine Corps. Originally Rikusentai meant a group of sailors detached from a warship for a special or temporary mission. And later it was included to mean a group of sailors sent from one base force to another. SNLF units were formed as regimental size units varying in size from 700 to 1,800 men. Due to the formation and dissolution of these units the title “2nd SNLF” is meaningless.

warspite1

Yes, that's it. I did not realise that it was you that did these.



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/18/2013 7:05:21 AM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2364
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/18/2013 12:19:47 PM   
Extraneous

 

Posts: 1810
Joined: 6/14/2008
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After the Japanese Cruisers and Japanese Army I was getting kind of burnt out on write ups.

I really didn't do an in depth study of the SNLF.

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2365
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/18/2013 6:39:17 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

After the Japanese Cruisers and Japanese Army I was getting kind of burnt out on write ups.

warspite1

I know that feeling


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Extraneous)
Post #: 2366
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/19/2013 1:48:09 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
I have finished the Kiwi Territorial and have a draft for the Kiwi motorised corps

[2009] [New Zealand Auckland Militia - by Robert Jenkins]
.P "With gratitude to the past, and with confidence in the future, we range ourselves without fear beside Britain. Where she goes we go. Where she stands, we stand". These were the words of Mickey Savage, the Prime Minister of New Zealand, in September 1939. They were uttered on the 5th of that month, 2 days after the British declaration of War on Germany.
.P The write up for this counter honours the men and women of this sparsely populated, relatively small country, located on the other side of the world and 11,000 miles from the United Kingdom - the "mother country" to which Mr Savage pledged allegiance.
.P Ask yourself this question; which Allied power, after the United Kingdom, spent the most (as a % of its national income) during the war? Yes, it was New Zealand.
.P Other facts:
.B Population in 1939 - 1.6m
.B No. of men and women who served in fighting formations - 140,000 (155,000 in total)
.B War dead - 11,928
.B War dead as a ratio to population (per million) was the highest of all the Commonwealth countries - 6,684.
.P New Zealanders fought in all the main campaigns of World War II alongside their Commonwealth brothers:
.B The first major naval engagement of the war featured a cruiser from the New Zealand Squadron of the Royal Navy - HMS (later HMNZS) Achilles. Two Kiwi's were killed in the battle.
.B 77 pilots fought in the Battle of Britain, 11 of which paid the ultimate price.
.B Eight New Zealanders won the Victoria Cross (the highest award for bravery in the face of the enemy - available to most Commonwealth countries) in World War II:
.B Keith Elliott - 22nd Battalion (Bn), 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force (2NZEF)
.B John Hinton - 20th Bn 2NZEF
.B Alfred Hulme - 23rd Bn 2NZEF
.B Moana-nui-a-Kiwa Ngarimu - 28th (Maori) Bn 2NZEF
.B Leonard Trent - Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) attached to the Royal Air Force (RAF) Bomber Command
.B Lloyd Trigg - RNZAF attached to the RAF Coastal Command
.B James Ward - RNZAF attached to the RAF Bomber Command
.B Charles Hazlitt Upham - 20th Bn 2NZEF is the only combat soldier to have won the award twice.
.B New Zealanders fought with distinction in the Western Desert, Crete, Italy and in the Pacific as well as other theatres fighting within other Commonwealth units.
.P New Zealand had nothing like the industrial capacity of Canada or even
Australia, but she was vital to the viability of the United Kingdom in a way that is less than well known. The dominion was able to help keep Britain fed during the
war, initially exporting all of her surplus food to the UK. In 1943-44 calls upon her foodstuffs became acute - the US forces in the Pacific needing feeding and British supplies were critically low. As a result, the New Zealand 3rd Division was disbanded to allow more manpower to return to the land to help resolve the crisis.
.P As can be seen, New Zealand played her part and more in the final Allied victory.


[2011] [New Zealand 1st Motorized Corps - by Robert Jenkins]
.P There was no New Zealand unit with this designation in World War II. This counter represents the forces that New Zealand sent overseas during the war.
.P New Zealand sent one formation to Europe and one to the Pacific; the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force (2NZEF) and the 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force In the Pacific (2NZEFIP) respectively. Each force was built around one division.
.P The first division to be built up was the 2nd Infantry Division. The division was modelled along the lines of a British Army infantry division, with the core of the division being its three infantry brigades, numbered 4,5 and 6.
.P The first formations of the 2nd New Zealand Division were sent to the United Kingdom in early 1940 and, once the threat of invasion had passed, were then sent to Egypt, just in time to take part in the ill-fated expedition to Greece.
.P The key units of the division at the time was as follows:
.B 4th Brigade: 18th, 19th and 20th Infantry Battalions
.B 5th Brigade: 21st, 22nd and 23rd Infantry Battalions
.B 6th Brigade: 24th, 25th and 26th Infantry Battalions
.B 27th Machine Gun Battalion
.B 28th (Maori) Battalion
.B 4th, 5th and 6th Field Regiments
.B 7th Anti-Tank Regiment
.B Divisional Cavalry Regiment
.B Divisional Engineer Battalion
.B The 14th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment was not fully formed until November.
.P The division was commanded by Lieutenant-General Bernard Freyberg VC and was to remain under his command the entire war.
.P The 2nd Division was sent to Greece in March 1941 as part of a force that consisted of mostly Australians and New Zealanders (ANZAC). The decision to send Commonwealth troops to assist the Greeks in their fight against the Italian invaders was controversial, and after the Germans launched their own attack on the country at the start of April, there was only ever one outcome; the small Allied force was evacuated to the island of Crete towards the end of the month.
.P The following month, the Germans attacked Crete using paratroops to seize key airfields, and using these to fly in reinforcements. For this battle 10th Brigade, which had been forming in Egypt, replaced 6th Brigade which needed to be taken out of the line to rest and refit. Despite some episodes of heroic resistance, the Allied troops soon found themselves being evacuated once more. Crete cost the Kiwi's almost 4,000 casualties and only in November would the division be in a fit state to return to action.
.P The British launched Operation Crusader that month. This operation was designed to relieve Tobruk. The battle, with the New Zealanders in the forefront, swung one
way and then the other; the Kiwi's broke through to Tobruk but took heavy
casualties once again and was withdrawn from the frontline.
.P By now, with Japan in the war, there was a possibility that the division would be returned home to defend the home country. However, the Americans agreed that they would send troops to New Zealand to allow the 2nd to remain in Egypt.
.P Field Marshal Rommel began his Gazala offensive in May 1942 and successfully threw the British Army back, capturing the port of Tobruk as he did so. The 2nd New Zealand Division, which had been sent to Syria following Crusader, was sent to Mersah Metruh, near the Egyptian-Libyan border, in order to try and stem the German advance. At one point the division was surrounded by the Rommel's forces, but they managed to breakout and reached El-Alamein to await the next attack.
.P The attack came on the 1st July in what became known as the First Battle of El-Alamein. During this battle the Kiwis severely mauled the Italian Ariete Motorised Division, but the battle was essentially a stalemate.
.P The scene was now set for Rommel's final attempt to reach Cairo - The Battle of Alam Halfa - which ended on the 5th September, and with it, the last chance for the Afrika Korps to reach the Nile. The 4th Brigade did not take part in the battle as it was decided to convert the brigade to an armoured formation. However the rest of the division fought bravely as ever, but continued to suffer heavy casualties in doing so. But with Egypt safe, it would soon be time for the British Army to turn to the offensive once more, and for this next operation, the 2nd New Zealand Division would once more be in the forefront of the attack.
.P For the 2nd Battle of El-Alamein the division was reinforced at various times with two British infantry and one armoured brigade. 2nd New Zealand was part of XXX Corps which was stationed in the northern sector of the battlefront, and which would launch the main attack. Then, with the battle won, the New Zealand Division was in the forefront of the pursuit of the retreating German and Italian troops.
.P The division continued to head west and in January 1943 Tripoli, the Libyan capital was captured by the 8th Army as Remnants of Rommel's army headed for Tunisia, where they would make a stand. There, the New Zealanders were key in helping to break Rommel's grip on the defensive Mareth Line. The Tunisian campaign ended in the middle of May 1943 and the division was once more able to get some
rest and refit.
.P At this time there was further debate over whether the division should be brought back to the Pacific, but it was decided to keep them in the European theatre. The division did not take part in the invasion of Sicily, but was sent
to Italy at the end of 1943, complete with their 4th brigade - now armoured. After briefly fighting the Germans along the Sangro River, the division was moved to assist the attack on the Gothic Line - and specifically to a town named Cassino. The Battle of Monte Cassino was one of the bloodiest for the Allies and it took no less than four assaults before the Germans were finally beaten back. The New Zealanders were not there for the last assault however. Casualties were sufficiently high that the division was taken out of the line.
.P From June 1944 onwards, with D-Day having been a success, the Italian Campaign became more and more of a sideshow. The Allies fought their way slowly up the Italian mainland, liberating town after town, each one being paid for in blood. Finally, in early May 1945, the Kiwi's entered the Adriatic port of Trieste. The German surrender followed seven days later on the 9th May.
.P In stark contrast to the war record of the 2nd Division, the 3rd Division saw little action.
.P The units for the 3rd Division began forming in earnest after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. By August 1942 the key units of the division were as follows:
.B 8th Brigade: 29th, 34th and 36th Infantry Battalions
.B 14th Brigade: 30th, 35th and 37th Infantry Battalions
.B 17th Field Regiment
.B 144th Independent Battery
.B 144th Light Howitzer Battery
.B 33rd Heavy Coast Regiment
.B 28th Heavy Anti-Aircraft Regiment
.B 29th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment
.B 20th Field Engineers
.P The division was commanded by Major-General Sir Harold Barrowclough.
.P The division was sent to New Caledonia to continue the process for building up, and the 2nd Tank Brigade joined the division in September 1943.
.P That month the division finally saw combat. The Americans had landed on the Solomon Island of Vella Lavella in August. In order to release American troops,
the 14th Brigade was given the task of clearing the island of Japanese. This they achieved by the first week of October at a cost of 64 casualties.
.P Two more small-scale operations were carried out by the division; the 8th Brigade launched an amphibious landing operation in the Treasury Islands in late October. The islands were cleared of Japanese by the start of November. The division's last operation was carried out by the 8th Brigade. This operation was designed to clear the islands, located north of Bougainville, of Japanese troops and began in January 1944. When the operation was wound up the following month, the decision was taken to disband 3rd Division in view of the manpower shortage that New Zealand faced at the time (see New Zealand Auckland Militia Counter).



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/19/2013 8:31:33 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2367
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/19/2013 6:56:43 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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And the first of the South African units:

[2882] [South African Cape Town Militia - by Robert Jenkins]
.P This counter provides an overview of South Africa’s involvement in World War II.
.P When the United Kingdom declared war on Germany in September 1939, the dominions of Australia, Canada and New Zealand were, for the most part, quick to rally behind the mother country and declare war on Germany also. The situation in South Africa was a little different.
.P A number of South Africans had non-British ancestry (Afrikaans) and memories of the Boer Wars, in which the Afrikaners fought the British at the end of the previous century, remained fresh. Most Afrikaners were opposed to fighting a war alongside the British and against Germany.
.P The Prime Minister of South Africa at the time, Barry Herzog, was himself born into a German immigrant family and during the Boer War he fought against the British. Not surprisingly therefore he proposed a stance of neutrality for South Africa. But on the 4th September 1939, the day after the British and French went to war with Germany, the South African parliament refused to pursue this route. Herzog was deposed and replaced by Jan Smuts. Although of Afrikaans descent and a former Boer fighter himself, Smuts view what the the United Kingdom was a friend of South Africa.
.P Although Smuts was now in charge, the Second World War, and South Africa’s role in it, continued to divide the country. As Prime Minister, one of his first tasks was to sort out the not inconsequential matter that the South African armed forces were in no fit state to fight a war. There was no conscription and an all-volunteer force was needed. In some cases Afrikaners did put on uniform, but this was more likely to be for reasons of needing work than for any agreement with the war. South Africa allowed non-whites to join the armed forces, but only in a non-combatant role.
.P These problems of course caused issues in terms of the numbers of units the South Africans could field. In September 1939 the South African Army numbered less than 4,000 men, although there were almost 15,000 in the Active Citizens Force (a body that provided peace time training and that could be called upon in time of emergency). However, the number of volunteers that did sign up meant that the Army could proceed to form three infantry divisions. In actual fact only two of these served in the North and East African Campaigns (see 1st South African Infantry
Corps counter). The 3rd Division never left South Africa (see South African Territorial counters) and was eventually disbanded.
.P The South African Army was also limited in terms of where it could be deployed. Volunteers were asked to sign up to a document that meant they could be sent anywhere in Africa (Smuts recognised that Italy would be likely to join the war). When the Axis forces were later kicked out of North Africa the South African Army put into operation plans to create two armoured divisions. Unfortunately the problems of manpower and the need to get people to volunteer to fight outside of Africa restricted these plans such that only one division was capable of being put into the field (see 4th South African Motorised Corps).
.P In 1939 the South African Air Force (SAAF) contained less than 2,000 men. Half a dozen Hurricane Mk 1 fighters, one Fairy Battle and one Blenheim represented the entirety of their frontline aircraft. Immediate plans were put in place for the purchase of 720 aircraft and for a rapid expansion in personnel. Within two years the position had been transformed and South Africa contributed a modern air force to the Allied cause with an excellent training arm that was used to train British pilots and those of other Allied nationalities.
.P At its peak, the SAAF contained 26 squadrons. Around 9,000 South African airmen served with the Royal Air Force and other Allied forces.
.P In September 1939 navy consisted of less than 10 people and no ships, although the South African Division of the Royal Navy had a Volunteer Reserve of around 600 sailors. Again the position was quickly changed and the newly named, Seaward Defence Force, was soon operating minesweepers and four anti-submarine vessels along the South African coastline. Some of these vessels were sent to the Mediterranean at the request of the Royal Navy.
.P The Seaward Defence Force and the Royal Navy Volunteer Reserve (South Africa) became the South African Naval Force in August 1942. Over 10,000 South Africans served during the Second World War. Later in the war the South Africans took delivery of three Loch-class frigates for anti-submarine duty. Around 3,000 sailors fought and died in Royal Navy ships, including the aircraft carrier Hermes, the battleship Barham, and the cruisers Gloucester, Neptune, Cornwall, and Dorsetshire.
.P The number of South Africans who volunteered for the armed forces is difficult to get accurate figures for, but it is believed that there were around 335,000 volunteers, of which 12,046 were killed.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 10/19/2013 6:59:44 PM >


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2368
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/19/2013 8:20:34 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Would be really good if there are any South Africans in the house who can give any info please.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2369
RE: Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land - 10/20/2013 1:03:01 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
Okay the South Africans are almost done - just the 1st Infantry Corps to finish off . Here are the 4th Motorised Corps and the Territorial

[2884] [South African Territorial - by Robert Jenkins]
.P The South Africans have two Territorial counters in World In Flames. These
counters represent the troops that would likely have been available to defend the
homeland in the event of a direct threat to South Africa.
.P In 1939 the population of South Africa was split; some were in favour of joining the war against Germany, while others were against (see South African Cape Town Militia counter).
.P The South African government did not impose conscription and relied instead upon a volunteer force to man its armed forces. This decision, while no doubt politically necessary, gave rise to problems with the army finding it difficult to recruit sufficient men for their proposed army.
.P Two infantry divisions were formed (see 1st South African Infantry Corps counter) that were deployed in the North and East African theatres, but the South African Army was unable to fully form a third division. As a result the 3rd Infantry Division never left the home country and many of its troops were simply used as replacements for the 1st and 2nd Divisions.
.P In the event of invasion these trained troops would have been available to form the core of one or more divisions. While fighting a war thousands of miles from home may have been difficult to attract volunteers for, a direct threat to a nation's security would almost certainly have led to a better response, and there was a big reserve of manpower that the nation could call upon. For this reason the South Africans have two Territorial counters. In addition it is likely that the non-white troops that volunteered for active service (but were only allowed a non-combatant role due to the country's racial policies) would have been more readily accepted.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2370
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