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Floatation Damage Strategies

 
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Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/20/2003 5:46:08 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		Couple Questions For "The Experts":

1. Is there any advantage to waiting for floatation damage to be repaired in-theatre before sending a ship back to pearl/tokyo? Should I just send my 60Sys/50Flt CV Back to Pearl or wait for the 50 floatation damage to be fixed first?
2. When one of your ships gets really pounded while at a forward port on whatever mission, do you generally dock it there for floatation damage repair(Lets say its even a size 5-6 port) and risk further damage from attack, or send it back to the nearest "safer" port and risk damage due to the added sailing time?
3. Are you inclined to always wait for floatation damage to be fixed for ships docked at far off ports before sending them back to Noumea/Truk for return to Pearl/Tokyo, or do you risk at a point further damage just to lower your overall "fleet point total" and increase chances for something better? In other words, at what floatation level do you find you can still make it back to Noumea/Truk and if you had say 4 damaged CA's scattered around do you think its worth the added damage and risk to get them back to Tokyo/Pearl as soon as possible??

Thanks!
Post #: 1
Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/20/2003 6:21:07 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Veldor
[B]Couple Questions For "The Experts":

1. Is there any advantage to waiting for floatation damage to be repaired in-theatre before sending a ship back to pearl/tokyo? Should I just send my 60Sys/50Flt CV Back to Pearl or wait for the 50 floatation damage to be fixed first?[/B][/QUOTE]I would fix it first. I understand that there is a chance the ship could sink if there is any floatation or fire damage to a ship when sent back.

[QUOTE] [B]2. When one of your ships gets really pounded while at a forward port on whatever mission, do you generally dock it there for floatation damage repair(Lets say its even a size 5-6 port) and risk further damage from attack, or send it back to the nearest "safer" port and risk damage due to the added sailing time? [/B][/QUOTE]I usually dock it to stop the progressive flooding if I can.

[QUOTE] [B]3. Are you inclined to always wait for floatation damage to be fixed for ships docked at far off ports before sending them back to Noumea/Truk for return to Pearl/Tokyo, or do you risk at a point further damage just to lower your overall "fleet point total" and increase chances for something better? In other words, at what floatation level do you find you can still make it back to Noumea/Truk and if you had say 4 damaged CA's scattered around do you think its worth the added damage and risk to get them back to Tokyo/Pearl as soon as possible?? [/B][/QUOTE]Unless the situation is desperate, they go back.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 2
- 1/20/2003 6:37:31 AM   
ftwarrior

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: Springfield, VA
Status: offline 		On a similar topic, I've noticed flooding getting worse as I try to limp back to any port. Would bringing a ship to a stop (once out of immediate danger) help with securing the flood situation so that it can get back to port without sinking along the way?

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 3
Re: Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/20/2003 7:18:04 AM   
XPav

 

Posts: 550
Joined: 7/10/2002
From: Northern California
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
[B]I would fix it first. I understand that there is a chance the ship could sink if there is any floatation or fire damage to a ship when sent back.[/B][/QUOTE]

I've never seen this. Anyone?

[QUOTE][B]I usually dock it to stop the progressive flooding if I can.[/B][/QUOTE]

Yup. If I'm in a secure port I see no reason not to just have the ship sit there until the float/fire damage is all gone.

[QUOTE]
[B]Unless the situation is desperate, they go back. [/B][/QUOTE]

And if there are ships available. I find mildly sys-damaged ships to be useful for convoy escort.

_____________________________

I love it when a plan comes together.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 4
- 1/20/2003 7:58:30 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		On point #1, it has always been my understanding that, after you send a ship back to Pearl or Tokyo, there is no danger of it sinking. I have never seen an official pronouncement on that, however.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 5
Re: Re: Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/20/2003 1:03:08 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by XPav
[B]



And if there are ships available. I find mildly sys-damaged ships to be useful for convoy escort. [/B][/QUOTE]


Yeah I do this with DDs....I have been known to have DDs with 35% sys dmg used as escorts.

but my normal rule of thumb is as follows:-

Subs....anything over 10% sys dmg and they go back, period.

DD's....can still do good work as fast transport with reasonable damage, upto about 20% sys dmg but only if I am under the hammer, otherwise anything over 15%sys dmg goes back.

CL/CAs...again depends on how hard I am being pushed, but willing to use with upto 15% sys dmg.

BBs....anything over 10% gets sent back.

CV's...this is a tricky one and really has to be decided on at the time. I have used CVs with sys dmg of 20% when in a tight spot, but like BBs I like my CVs clean and fast, so 10% sys dmg gives them a ticket to Pearl. (note 10% usually means a 40 day turn-around for CVs).

AP/TK/APD etc... Well with my back against the wall I will work them into the ground...with upto 35% sys dmg even higher if it does not effect the ships speed too much, but generally 15% to 20% is the trigger for me.

MSW will be sent for repairs if sys dmg is 10%.

SC/PT....Pfft ! The Naval version of the Rifleman....expendable.

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 6
- 1/20/2003 1:15:54 PM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline 		Just remember with that "40-day turnaround" for CVs that, once you send 'em back, you may never see 'em again...

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 7
- 1/20/2003 2:54:10 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		The rate that I use ships up at, Washington has little choice:D

_____________________________




Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 8
- 1/20/2003 11:20:50 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Wow, sending ships back with 10% damage? You must be playing the USA, as I never get ships back if I send them to Japan for damage.

Even with ship rates set to 200%, I still have likelyhood of release showing up as LOW.

On the other hand, even with setting the USA to 70%, they still show likelyhood of release as HIGH.

Funny how that works, it must be a set VP value in theater at once that controls this rate. I guess I just need to loose more ships at a faster rate to get more ships ...

As far as Float damage, depends on whether you are playing USA or Japan, the USA damage control makes it more likely to control the additional damage to make it home. The Japan option: Dock or Sink! This is one reason to build a string of size 3 ports towards your goal so you can quickly pop the damaged ship into dock just to get it under control to make it back to a major port.

Keep in mind, in the major scenarios, victory points are ONLY for sunk ships, not damaged ones. Each ship you toss away for nothing (ie: running it long ways with float/fire) is free points.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 9
- 1/20/2003 11:40:56 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		One thing that I have noticed. Not sure if I am imagining it or not. If you are at a minor port and have a heavily damaged (flotation) ship. It can still add flotation damage and sink while docked (that part I am sure about). However, it seems that if you have a lot of other ships with minor system damages sittin it port, it is best to pack them off to another port. I seems then that then all repair resources will then work on the one damaged carrier (or whatever you want to save).

Also, it might pay to turn off expanding fortifications and airbases in an effort to boost the size of your port faster. Going from a size 3 port to 4 might make the difference is saving a seriously hurt ship as bigger ports repair better.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 10
- 1/21/2003 1:56:08 AM   
Admiral DadMan


Posts: 3627
Joined: 2/22/2002
From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
Status: offline 		The larger the port size, the better the chance there is to repair damage. Also (undocumented), the number of damaged ships affects the chance to repair. Here is some other stuff from the Manual:

[QUOTE]11.5 Damage to Ships

4. When a system is destroyed, it will no longer be listed on the Ship ’s Information Screen. These systems may be repaired if at anchor in a port with a current size of at least 5 (the larger the port and the smaller the weapon system, the quicker the repair time).

(11.5 continued...)
... It is much easier to repair damage in a port (disbanded, not docked). The amount of repairs made as well as the likelihood of additional damage is affected by:[list]
  • the amount of current damage to the ship
  • the experience of the ship's crew
  • if the ship is in port
  • the size of that port
    [/list]
    [B]11.6 Operational Damage and Repairs at Sea[/B]

    Whenever a ship is at sea (not docked), it has a chance of suffering system damage due to wear and tear on the ship. This damage can occur as the TF enters each new hex, and will immediately affect the Task Force ´s speed for the rest of the turn. Ships moving at maximum speed will suffer greater operational damage than ships movingat cruise speed. In addition, ships always attempt to repair fire, flooding and system damage, even when at sea.


    [B]16.1 Impact of Port Size[/B]

    Repair times required for ships in port (or docked at the port as part of a TF) are directly related to the size of the port. However, even a current size 9 port will not repair ships as quickly as Tokyo or Pearl Harbor, so heavily damaged ships should be sent home for extensive repairs. Specific weapons systems that have been destroyed on a ship can only be repaired at a port with a current size of at least 5.
    [/QUOTE]

    _____________________________

    Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
    (\../)
    (O.o)
    (> <)

    CVB Langley:

    (in reply to Veldor)
    • Post #: 11
    - 1/21/2003 5:38:51 AM   
    Veldor


    Posts: 1531
    Joined: 12/29/2002
    From: King's Landing
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Admiral DadMan
    [B] Also (undocumented), the number of damaged ships affects the chance to repair. [/B][/QUOTE]

    So you would be advocating say, splitting up your low damaged SS's, DD's etc between say Brisbane and Noumea? This is something I did when I first started playing as it seemed like common sense.. Also seemed to me that more engineers would help, or ports where the engineers weren't all tied up expanding the place...

    But then everyone seemed to tell me none of the above mattered so I've mostly just been dumping everything together in one large port and ignoring engineer counts and availability.. My personal review of the "official" documentation seemed to confirm what everyone initially had told me.

    So Which is it?

    1. Does the number of ships/size of ships in a port affect how quickly damage is fixed. If so which ships are repaired first?
    2. Does the number of engineers or their availability in ANY way affect ship repair (for instance a total lack of any ENG forces at a base)?

    And how do you know your correct???

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 12
    - 1/21/2003 5:44:59 AM   
    Toro


    Posts: 578
    Joined: 4/9/2002
    From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
    Status: offline     		To a couple points discussed above:

    - ships with floatation damage don't move as quickly, and that's tbe primary reason to let them repair floatation/fire before sending back to PH or Japan (ie, it'll take longer to get home).

    - ports of size 1-2 do not reduce progressive flooding. The port must be size 3 before that can be brought under control (noting that even size 3 may not help much -- larger ports are better).

    - engineers do not affect ship repair; only port size has an effect. Also, the number of ships you have in port does not affect repair time. Pile 'em in one, if you'd like, but repair is SLOOOOOWWW in theater, so if there's any significant damage, send them home.

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 13
    - 1/21/2003 5:50:40 AM   
    Mr.Frag


    Posts: 13410
    Joined: 12/18/2002
    From: Purgatory
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]so if there's any significant damage, send them home.[/QUOTE]

    Might want to include the disclaimer that you might never get it back :(

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 14
    Re: Re: Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/21/2003 10:26:14 AM   
    Caltone


    Posts: 651
    Joined: 9/5/2001
    From: Raleigh, NC USA
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by XPav
    [B]I've never seen this. Anyone? [/B][/QUOTE]

    I'm pretty sure there is 0% chance of losing a ship once you've sent it back to Pearl/Tokyo.

    I believe the main reason to have float/fire damage reparied before returning them home is simple math.

    If a ship has 50sys/50float damage when sent back, it will take twice as long to become available as if it was only 50sys :D

    Floatation damage repairs pretty fast at a large port so patch them up before you send them home ;)

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 15
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/21/2003 10:44:27 AM   
    Veldor


    Posts: 1531
    Joined: 12/29/2002
    From: King's Landing
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Caltone
    [B]
    If a ship has 50sys/50float damage when sent back, it will take twice as long to become available as if it was only 50sys :D
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    In testing this doesn't appear to be true... Had:

    Hornet (52,74), Enterprise (46,15), A CA (80,53), and AV (60,63)..
    Sent them back right away and it was 175,157,179,and 79 Days... Reloaded a save and waited it out till they were all 0 floatation and the numbers were EXACTLY the same...

    Some posted that the number of ships in port affect repair rates, some say repairing floatation makes a difference. I think its funny how no one seems to know anything for sure (Or at least for every veteran player that tells you it one way, there is another that says the opposite) ... Seems like a pretty important and poorly documented topic. I'm glad I'm not the only one out there guessing about the rules in this game...

    Go ahead, try it yourself, am I just crazy? :)

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 16
    - 1/21/2003 11:06:29 AM   
    Yamamoto

     

    Posts: 743
    Joined: 11/21/2001
    From: Miami, Fl. U.S.A.
    Status: offline     		If repairing the floatation damage would increase the ship's speed it will make a difference. Perhaps your ships had so much system damage that the speed didn't change, even after the floatation damage was repaired.
    I believe someone from Matrix once said that it was best to repair flotation damage first.

    Yamamoto

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 17
    - 1/22/2003 5:03:20 AM   
    crsutton


    Posts: 9590
    Joined: 12/6/2002
    From: Maryland
    Status: offline     		Just an added thought. Once reinforcments start to arrive. I rotate even undamaged cruisers and distroyers back to Pearl for refit, even those with only minor system damage. Of course, this depends on the situation but the in-theater ships that begin any of the campaigns have horried AA assets and you would do well to upgrade them if you can. This includes any carriers-although, I admit it is harder to find an opportunity to rotate them out.

    American crusiers trade the pitiful 1.1 inch pom pom guns for 40mm bofors. This makes a big difference in the volume of AA a task force can put up. Some American DD have only 50 cal mgs for AA arament. Send them back. You can expect these ships to become available in 30 to 40 days. However, they have to be released but that is not a great problem for the Americans.

    _____________________________

    I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

    Sigismund of Luxemburg

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 18
    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Floatation Damage Strategies - 1/22/2003 8:19:07 AM   
    Caltone


    Posts: 651
    Joined: 9/5/2001
    From: Raleigh, NC USA
    Status: offline     		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Veldor
    [B]In testing this doesn't appear to be true... Had:

    Hornet (52,74), Enterprise (46,15), A CA (80,53), and AV (60,63)..
    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Are those figures from our game? ;) Just kidding, I'm know they're not.

    I remember someone from Matrix mentioning it was best to repair float damage before return. Perhaps it is in reference to the speed and not the "numeric" amount of damage to be repaired as Yamamoto suggests.

    (in reply to Veldor)
    Post #: 19
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