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Naval question. - 10/30/2013 9:22:47 PM

stormbringer3

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From: Staunton, Va.
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Never having played this title, perhaps this question is a moot point but I'll ask. In every Grand Strategy title I've evey played, the naval aspect has always been an Achilles heel. The stacking rules I read say unlimited Naval stacking at sea. In other games that I have played, You could create an Axis naval superstack and especially vs. an AI, the Allies could not cope very well. . Does this title deal with the Axis naval superstack?
Thanks for any information.

Post #: 1

RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 9:36:56 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stormbringer3

Never having played this title, perhaps this question is a moot point but I'll ask. In every Grand Strategy title I've evey played, the naval aspect has always been an Achilles heel. The stacking rules I read say unlimited Naval stacking at sea. In other games that I have played, You could create an Axis naval superstack and especially vs. an AI, the Allies could not cope very well. . Does this title deal with the Axis naval superstack?
Thanks for any information.

There are a couple of problems with creating a massive naval group.

First, naval units move from port to 1 sea area. They might traverse other sea areas, but enemy units can simply ignore them. Once they reach a destination sea area, their ability to detect enemy naval units, engage in combat and other stuff depends on which section box they select within the sea area. A higher section box is better (in general), but your choice is limited by how far the naval group traveled to get to the sea area, and the movement factors for the individual ships in the group.

Once ensconced in a chosen sea area, a group can be quite formidable, but they might be surprised by enemy units, and they might be vulnerable to enemy land based air units which enter the sea area. Assuming that the group is invulnerable in all regards, then yes, they can control the sea area for the turn. At the end of the turn they have to decide whether to stay at sea (moving down one section box) or return to port.

In practice what this means is that the US can create a massive naval group and control one sea area for one turn. All the other sea areas would be left open, in which the Axis can wreak havoc. It's sort of a cat-and-mouse game since the US can keep their big stick in a port and dare the Axis to put ships out to sea. Of course the US could then go after any Axis ships that have the courage to move into sea areas the US can reach. But the odds of finding an enemy fleet are 50% at best, so the enemy might still go unpunished.

In summary, if you have a big navy, you have a big advantage, but it doesn't give you control over all the oceans, only those within your range, and even then real bad die rolls can put the largest fleet in jeopardy.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 10/30/2013 9:38:28 PM >

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RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 9:38:01 PM

obermeister

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Italy can make an intimidating stack in the med, and Japan can do it in the Pacific. The problem is that if you do this, then you have committed your ships for the turn. So the allies will have relative freedom of movement in every other sea zone.

Naval engagements in this game are more subject to luck than in a lot of games. You can have a superior force that won't be superior for long if you can't roll dice well.

Land-based air is also very important in this game.

Bottom line, yeah Italy/Japan can do this to try and deny a sea zone to the allies. But if the allies cede it, then your fleet isn't available to react to things the allies do elsewhere.

(in reply to stormbringer3)

Post #: 3

RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 9:48:57 PM

stormbringer3

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From: Staunton, Va.
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Thank you for the quick response.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

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RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 10:45:08 PM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
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also a major issue.

the bigger fleets you have the more casualties you take.

because the casualties you inflect, depends on how many ships the enemy have. (it is basic easier to hit something)

I read somewhere that the perfect fleet is 7 ships, you have a small profile, but can have a good offence.

yes the enemy can focus on 1 of you fleets, but the casualties will be more or less the same, he would take 4-5 casualties to give you 7 casualties.

off cause there are die rolls and sea sections that effect that.

but how to use your fleets, for the big naval power, is a big game of chess.

who moves first, where does he move, how big a fleet do he place, how big is his reserve, how long have he moved, is he near land based air craft, is he there to cut supply or production, is he there to invade your islands.

and for your counter move: do you move there and engage him, how big a fleet do you deploy, how big do you want your reserve to be, can you strike somewhere else now he have sailed there.

naval strategy is not easy to learn, but it can win or loss the game

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Post #: 5

RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 10:48:11 PM

michaelbaldur

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but there is a simple rule.

the longer you can keep you fleet strong, the more impact, it will have on the game

this is true for everybody

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 6

RE: Naval question. - 10/30/2013 11:14:49 PM

ACMW

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Joined: 11/25/2006
From: Norway
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Apart from the US and their Commonwealth chums late war, a dominant navy can be dominant anywhere but not everywhere. And as others have said, the other side can wait for you to deploy and strike where you are not. In fact, until the US and Japan join, it is the UK that has the assets to put together a superstack BUT

1. There is little that they can generally do with it that is unpleasant enough to force the Germans to fight it
2. They could be beastly to the Italians in the Med BUT
a. they run the risk of being minced by land-based air &
b. Donitz will be playing merry hell with their convoys.

Actually, the naval rules are rather subtle and elegant. They also mesh rather well with land and air. You really do have to think 'Jointery' in this beautiful game.

(in reply to stormbringer3)

Post #: 7

RE: Naval question. - 10/31/2013 12:30:24 AM

WIF_Killzone

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True story, sometimes, taking on a larger fleet can be advantageous (when the time is right) by holding back 1/2 your fleet for other maneuvers, and getting a good or even devastating result, basically getting midway result for little or manageable risk-game changer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

but there is a simple rule.

the longer you can keep you fleet strong, the more impact, it will have on the game

this is true for everybody

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 8