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[Request] Anti-torpedo defense

 
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[Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 6:01:00 AM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		Just caught this over at Simhq.com, posted by an unmentionable source, but looks very interesting. Can it be replicated in the CMANO database? I would love to be able to post that it is indeed very doable, as I suspect it is. I think the unmentioned source's argument is since CMANO doesn't have an open user modifiable database, it cannot make it into the game. Without creating a brushfire about the merits/demerits and risks of opening up a moddable database, how easy could this be added?


Link: http://defensetech.org/2013/10/28/navy-deploying-new-anti-torpedo-technology/#more-21660

Pretty cool actually!

< Message edited by strykerpsg -- 10/30/2013 8:15:39 AM >
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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 6:32:20 AM   
jomni


Posts: 2827
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		You just have to speak up and the devs will put it in if possible. An open database is a messy affair.

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 6:48:08 AM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		I'm in agreement an open database would be a mess, especially with multiplayer.

Devs, possible?

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 7:30:41 AM   
Wiz33

 

Posts: 147
Joined: 5/16/2007
Status: offline 		Ok I hope this is a mis-type "The Navy plans to equip all aircraft carriers with SSTD by 2035." ;-P


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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 7:45:24 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Interesting

Seems there is very little information available on this system, which makes it difficult to do a good implementation...

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 8:02:36 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
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Status: offline 		The Royal Navy has been using an SSTDS since 2009, but with a different launcher system firing a pattern of active decoys

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 1:04:45 PM   
Dimitris

 

Posts: 13282
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Status: offline 		If we can implement it, sure why not.

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 1:15:42 PM   
Dimitris

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: strykerpsg
I think the unmentioned source's argument is since CMANO doesn't have an open user modifiable database, it cannot make it into the game.


To understand biosthetique/GunnyHighway , you must first follow the initial discussion on Subsim.
Then the new thread he started at SimHQ.

At that point you can probably realize what is going on.

Like I said, now that at least one system is known to work, we can look into modeling this. No promises but we'll try.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 10/30/2013 3:28:17 PM >

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 2:03:13 PM   
ExMachina


Posts: 462
Joined: 9/25/2013
Status: offline 		from the article

quote:

The Navy plans to equip all aircraft carriers with SSTD by 2035.


my (yet-to-be born) children will be in college by then

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 3:41:13 PM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: strykerpsg
I think the unmentioned source's argument is since CMANO doesn't have an open user modifiable database, it cannot make it into the game.


To understand biosthetique/GunnyHighway , you must first follow the initial discussion on Subsim.
Then the new thread he started at SimHQ.

At that point you can probably realize what is going on.

Like I said, now that at least one system is known to work, we can look into modeling this. No promises but we'll try.


Would love to show the teams willingness to implement consumer requests of existing or pending technologies as a way to counter a locked database for a maturing new release. I fully understand the need to initially lock a database, at least until all bugs are squashed, but feel that's their main soapbox that Harpoon has and CMANO doesn't.

Yeah, read the Subsim thread and asked him about his agenda in an earlier Simhq thread. I guess throwing in the odd famous quote from someone else or Latin phrase makes a superior intellectual while chasing Sunburn through the various threads.

< Message edited by strykerpsg -- 11/1/2013 3:50:15 AM >

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 5:34:31 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		I'll point out again, the original H2/H3 database editing was a hack. An official editor came out years after release that was barely workable. I have no expectation for Command other than that.

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 7:58:35 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
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Status: offline 		I may be using a zimmer frame by then.
quote:

ORIGINAL: ExMachina

from the article

quote:

The Navy plans to equip all aircraft carriers with SSTD by 2035.


my (yet-to-be born) children will be in college by then


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Post #: 12
RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 8:07:37 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		There clearly is at least one hidden agenda here. Guys please don't bite.

And I'm actually a bit baffled. Anti-torpedo torpedoes supposedly proves that the lack of a public database editor makes Command inferior to Harpoon? Wow...

Anyone who makes such a claim, or even attempts to hint in that direction, has not spent much time in Harpoon and/or has an agenda. Those of you who've been with us for a while probably remember that I tried to make anti-torpedo torpedoes work in the database editor for Harpoon2 back in the 1990s. And getting such weapons to work properly in Harpoon2 and later in Harpoon3 simply isn't possible. The database 'hack' I invented was similar to the 'hack' I later used for minesweeping, namely use torpedo [and mine(!)] decoys and just name them 'Mk46 Mod 6', 'Sweep Cable' or whatever. Torpedoes could never be fired at torpedoes in Harpoon3, regardless of whether the game had a database editor or not.

Therefore, if someone claims that you can use the database editor Harpoon3 to make working anti-torpedo torpedoes it's because they use cleverly named decoys in a hack that _I_ invented 15-20 years ago. You cannot fire these anti-torp torps, you just have to wait for the attacking torpedo to hit the ship, and hope the decoy works. So the Harpoon3 crowd hasn't come up with something new and there is no real implementation of anti-torp torps, they simply copied my hack nearly two decades later. Wow...

Command has working anti-torpedo decoys too, and so we could 'fake' it just like Harpoon as an interim solution. Dimitris said that we're gonna look into a proper implementation (although no promises), and it is now in the to-do queue.

So, with all facts now laid on the table, what exactly has been proven?

In any case, as we've pointed out repeatedly, Command is not Harpoon. And it should be pretty clear by now that the Harpoon crowd do (or rather did) things their way, we do things our way. And since this is a Command forum can we please get back to talking about Command.

Thanks!


< Message edited by emsoy -- 10/30/2013 8:17:56 PM >

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 8:14:37 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline 		Nope I was joking at the date of when they were going to be introduced by the armed forces not command. I have nothing but respect for the work you have and are doing.

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 8:18:06 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline 		Wow does it actually work we are unfortunately unlucky sometimes us brits cut corners save money. (New carrier's example)



quote:

ORIGINAL: .Sirius

The Royal Navy has been using an SSTDS since 2009, but with a different launcher system firing a pattern of active decoys


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Post #: 15
RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/30/2013 8:42:57 PM   
strykerpsg

 

Posts: 277
Joined: 11/13/2010
Status: offline 		Emsoy,

Agree with all. The 2 of them clearly have an agenda and the unmentionable (TM pending) continues to show all that read his postings that he clearly has a biased agenda.

I for one am not seeking a manipulatable database and fully support the rationale behind keeping it locked until a time determined by the design team to make it so, if ever. I enjoy showing the talent and passion of this team to listen to and support its customers. It's a rarity and indeed, thank you for being there.

That being said though, it is a cool technology and if it can be incorporated, fantastic!

< Message edited by strykerpsg -- 10/31/2013 1:31:41 AM >

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/31/2013 12:16:50 AM   
JRyan


Posts: 555
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline 		Just a quick statement....although I had many of hour of fun with things like PFEdit etc, I FULLY understand the reason the DB is locked and I support it. If later this takes off which I think it will, if the developers decide to go another route then so be it. It amazes me even after all the crap..and I mean all of it, that it never ends. We as gamer's have a fantastic game to play, model, and create. That was the most important thing that made me a pooner. A few bad apples and it chases new blood away.

Although I should not, I will mention this...for those of us that got the recent email...Commercial Harpoon is no more..no future versions etc....that being said and this is directed at one person in particular...PLEASE let it go...move on.....and let those of us that love these games enjoy them without the bullpuckey.



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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/31/2013 12:17:43 AM   
Tomcat84

 

Posts: 1952
Joined: 7/10/2013
Status: offline 		I dont know man, I dont want anything to do with STDs so i'm fine if theyre not implemented

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RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/31/2013 7:14:37 AM   
TonyAAA


Posts: 141
Joined: 2/7/2008
From: Arlington, TX
Status: offline 		FWIW, found this.

Besides similar material to the OP's link, it mentions:

“The usual countermeasures are noisemakers intended to decoy an approaching homing torpedo. Unfortunately the Russians use wake-following torpedoes that do not respond to the usual countermeasures at all.”

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Post #: 19
RE: Anti-torpedo defense - 10/31/2013 7:32:24 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Been looking into this one and there isn't very much technical information available which makes it difficult to do a good implementation in the sim.

Guys if you know of any good public sources it'd be great if you could post those. Thanks!

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RE: [Request] Anti-torpedo defense - 10/31/2013 8:30:08 PM   
BKLANDIN

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 10/3/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blighty56

Nope I was joking at the date of when they were going to be introduced by the armed forces not command. I have nothing but respect for the work you have and are doing.

quote:

I have nothing but respect for the work you have and are doing


Same here.

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Post #: 21
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