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Commandos - 1/16/2003 10:18:49 PM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		First thanx for all the help on other things i have asked about. Have long campaign going british against the germans 1941. Am for the first time trying out the infiltrator button. But need some help setting up. Must i set up in deployment stage. Also where do i mark the hex at . I mena do i have to do on map edge behind enemy lines or do i put the hex mark near or at the place i want them to attack. Also how do i know when they will arrive or if they will arrive. Right now i have them in the rear of a hill i want them to take. Has a good view of my line of march. This is located about a third of the way in from the back map edge, east side of board. I am attacking from the west. Also when i play german i assume the spec ops are infiltrators and rangers for americans. But what do i use for japan. Thank you for any help on this.

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Post #: 1
Re: Commandos - 1/16/2003 10:45:30 PM   
Resisti


Posts: 1351
Joined: 1/22/2001
From: Livorno, Italy
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by robot
[B]First thanx for all the help on other things i have asked about. Have long campaign going british against the germans 1941. Am for the first time trying out the infiltrator button. But need some help setting up. Must i set up in deployment stage.

YES, OTHERWISE THEY WILL REMAIN ON MAP AND ACT AS NORMAL GRUNTS.

Also where do i mark the hex at . I mena do i have to do on map edge behind enemy lines or do i put the hex mark near or at the place i want them to attack
.
NEXT TO THE PLACE YOU WANT THEM TO APPEAR/ATTACK. REMEMBER TOUGH, THE FARTHER FROM YOUR LINES YOU PLACE THEM, THE MORE UNLIKELY THEY WILL APPEAR.

Also how do i know when they will arrive or if they will arrive.

YOU CANNOT KNOW FOR SURE, TILL THE MOMENT THEY’LL ARRIVE.AND THIS IS GOOD, FOR REALITY’S SAKE.CHECK YOUR TROOPS’ LIST, YOU’LL SEE THE "INFILTRATING" WORD NEXT TO THEM; THEN AFTER A CERTAIN # OF TURNS, YOU’LL SEE INSTEAD “T#”, WHICH STANDS FOR “TURN#” (OF APPEARANCE). IF YOU SEE A “T99”, FORGET ABOUT THEM…

Right now i have them in the rear of a hill i want them to take. Has a good view of my line of march. This is located about a third of the way in from the back map edge, east side of board. I am attacking from the west. Also when i play german i assume the spec ops are infiltrators

YES

and rangers for americans.

YES

But what do i use for japan.

I DO NOT KNOW.

Thank you for any help on this. [/B][/QUOTE]

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Post #: 2
- 1/16/2003 10:53:25 PM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		For Japan, nothing. They don't have any 'special forces' class units.

Voriax

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Post #: 3
- 1/16/2003 10:59:07 PM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		You select where on the map you want them to appear. I won't have them infiltrate to, say a VH because I would rather have them pop up unseen at first and weigh my options depending on what they can see. (Most VH's are under observation, and possibly occupied by the enemy, especially if playing against the AI. Humans realize that they are prime pre-start bombardment targets and will not necessarily occupy them. The AI ain't always so smart.)

The further away from your starting line that you want them to appear, the longer (generally) it will take them to arrive. For that reason, highly mobile, elite troops with a good recce rating will tend to appear quicker. Note that sometimes they will not bloody well show up at all, if the distance is too great and time is too short.

I haven't used them in a while, but IIRC, then you set the troops to infiltrate and it will ask you where you want them to go before the scenario starts, exactly when, I don't remember..

Hope this helps more than hurts...

:)

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Post #: 4
- 1/17/2003 12:05:14 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		I'd like to say thanks for the input as well. Although I knew these things, it's nice to see them confirmed.

I've given up on infiltrating special forces - they're too expensive and carry real nice weaponry that I don't want to gamble away. Also, they have a tendency to infiltrate one by one, or in pairs at best. This makes them dead meat if spotted. :rolleyes:

Only fun thing is to have them infiltrate right in the middle of the enemy's armor advance. :p Usually they pop up and go out in a ball of flame, including the closest ironclad neighbor. :D

still one helluva expensive trade. As normally deployed grunts, they can cause five times that amount of damage, easily...

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Post #: 5
- 1/17/2003 12:34:46 AM   
Goblin


Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline 		I love them! Kill, kill, kill! That's what Rangers do! Lol! Arty=dead meat with Rangers around!:mad:

Goblin

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Post #: 6
- 1/17/2003 12:59:20 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Goblin
[B]I love them! Kill, kill, kill! That's what Rangers do! Lol! Arty=dead meat with Rangers around!:mad:

Goblin [/B][/QUOTE]

Not if you have assigned units to protect your arty park.... standard deployment procedure (at least for me!) :D

Result: Dead Rangers...

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Post #: 7
Thanx - 1/17/2003 1:13:27 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Thanx for info. I like to use differant things in the long campaigns. Have used paras a lot. I like using them for the diversity of it. Besides the german paras are elite. First time use of the special forces and such tho. Am into turn 7 of german vs british circa 1941. So far no sign of them yet. Have put them bout two thirds down the length of map, near but maybe 8 hexes away from rear VH behind a hill. Side bar!!! How do i start new paragraph. Sorry but am a clutz on this typing thing a ma jig. You would think after 71 years i would know how to use the keyboard. But for some reason my memory does not serve me too well. Heck a lot of things dont serve me too well these days.:D :D

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Post #: 8
- 1/17/2003 1:15:37 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		After you finish your first thought, hit the enter key and it will drop you down a line.

Then finish your next thought.

:D

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Post #: 9
- 1/17/2003 1:17:44 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		Thanx Jim for advice.
Wow easy ehhh.:o

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Post #: 10
- 1/17/2003 1:20:00 AM   
Jim1954

 

Posts: 1393
Joined: 5/15/2002
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Like most of life, it's knowing which button to push. lol

;)

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Post #: 11
- 1/17/2003 1:49:38 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		Commandos are great if an opponent is not prepared for them.

My favorite use is to block roads or sit quietly until some opportunity arises.

The commandos are much more effective with C/C turned on.

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Post #: 12
- 1/17/2003 6:37:10 AM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Voriax
[B]For Japan, nothing. They don't have any 'special forces' class units.

Voriax [/B][/QUOTE]

Not quite true, you are forgetting the militia units that start being available July 45.

They are armed with lousy weapons but are the largest of the spec-op squads at 25 men each.

Don't try to defend the home islands without them.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 13
- 1/17/2003 8:08:09 AM   
Voriax

 

Posts: 1719
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by john g
[B]Not quite true, you are forgetting the militia units that start being available July 45.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Oh yes, 'Guerrilla forces' class. Forgot that one.

Voriax

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Post #: 14
- 1/17/2003 9:53:50 AM   
Irinami

 

Posts: 746
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Florida, USA
Status: offline 		Hey, [B]Robot[/B]!

Special Forces are tough to get right. When they work, they can turn a battle. When they don't... Well... :(

Your best bet is to deploy the as standard infantry, except elite and with better armaments. Once ALL of the units' experience is up to at least the 90's, preferrably 100+, then you can start expect them to show up on an infiltrate mission.

There's never any guarantee, though.

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Post #: 15
Well - 1/17/2003 10:05:37 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		Hmmm. I've found that distance from deployed hex to target hex has little or nothing to do with arrival time. So you might as well leave your Infiltrators along the back hex row.

If, however, you deploy them in an area that receives bombardment on turn 0 (like your front line), they might take casualties and then arrive understrength when they come back on to the map. (They're never supressed from the bombard tho' :confused: )

Whether the arrival hex is enemy occupied or not doesn't seem to matter, either.

I deploy infiltrators much as Jim1954 said. Try to determine where rear area security and artillery parks might be placed and arrive at some point not too distant, but not too close as to be immediately obvious.

Infiltrators set along possible reinforcement routes is also handy. It provides you with a heads up on any reinforcements arriving and you have a force in place to pester them with. But I find the intelligence they can gather by being quiet, handier than a brief exchange of weapons fire.

You can also position them to arrive with a view of the far side of the inevitable 'Smoke Wall'. It can be really handy to watch your opponent maneuvering his units along his side of the battleline.

As far as Rangers go, I'd rather have them on the front line rather than infiltrating. They're too expensive and too good not to have up front. Give me a USMC LRP for infiltrating reconn anyday!. :D

_____________________________

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- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 16
workin out ok - 1/20/2003 11:26:04 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		The british commandos worked out well. Out of 12 planned to come on all but 4 made it. Had put them to far back on the map. Now i know better. They took the 2 rear VHs. Also they took out 5 mortors. All in all cant complain for first time use of them.
Want to thank all the replies. Going to try special forces for germans in next campaign. Will plan it a little better this time. Hope for 100 % infiltration. Maybe combine them with a para drop that they can help back up.:cool: :eek:

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Post #: 17
Re: workin out ok - 1/20/2003 12:17:01 PM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by robot
[B]The british commandos worked out well. Out of 12 planned to come on all but 4 made it. Had put them to far back on the map. Now i know better. They took the 2 rear VHs. Also they took out 5 mortors. All in all cant complain for first time use of them.
Want to thank all the replies. Going to try special forces for germans in next campaign. Will plan it a little better this time. Hope for 100 % infiltration. Maybe combine them with a para drop that they can help back up.:cool: :eek: [/B][/QUOTE]

I tested about a year ago and then the infiltraters seemed to come in on a bell curve distribution, with a 2 die 6 + 2 total giving the turn of arrival. The exception to this is that it seemed if a unit rolled a two or twelve on the dice they didn't come in, so in the bell curve there were no units coming in on turn 4 or 14. The test was with high experiance units, up near 100 experiance. With lower experiance units the factors may change.

You should always expect to see some units not arriving unless you are exceptionally lucky. You will also see them spread out over roughly 10 turns of arrival. If you want better chances of getting there, use paras or gliders if available, the problem with the UK is that commandos are available long before paras are.

If you try para drops vs the ai in a WWII campaign, be sure to delay the drop, the ai manages to have its units hit the front line at the same time by deploying faster units further back. I made the mistake one time of dropping a company and a half of paras near the rear vic hexes in a meeting engagement. There I dropped in the middle of roughly 3 companies of tanks, after the massacre, there were only two squads left from the para drop.

If I had delayed the drop (by cancelling then setting drop turn) I could have dropped in after the tanks moved forward.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 18
- 1/20/2003 7:13:08 PM   
Ezikel

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline 		Seeing as the subject is on commandos.

Not sure what years these are but ive noticed thise when i use british troops in most years.

In infantry section you have two unit types:

SAS Squads and Commandos platoons

If you click on SAS Plt you go in and usually you will see 2-3 10 man commando squads, but not elites, if you go out but then click back into the same one youll see the same but plus a 6-man SAS Squad, but still not elite.

If you click on Commandos Plt you have the normal 'Elite' 2-3 10 Man commando squads.

What i dont get is why the SAS Squads arnt elite but the commandoes are, when SAS got and do get additional training ontop of commando training.

Another thing im not too sure about, maybe this is why they arnt elite. I seem to have more success infiltraiting SAS, than i do commandos, this includes the 10 man squads in the SAS Plt section.

This is 7.1 BTW.... oh and i have loads off fun infilltraiting 9 squads of 6-man SAS squads into villages and then just not moving them till i have most of my squads. Tears the place up :-D

_____________________________

OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

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Post #: 19
- 1/21/2003 1:09:40 AM   
Redleg


Posts: 1805
Joined: 5/23/2000
Status: offline 		I am playing a river crossing pbem right now. So I tried to infiltrate some Soviet partisans mainly to give my opponent something to do while I organize to cross the river.

The first squad infiltrated right on a bunker! ;)
The second squad to arrive was 1 hex away from an engineer squad. ;)

The third squad arrived very near the above two.

Needless to say, the partisans took heavy casualties. But they did manage to shoot up the enemy engineer unit.

I am sure they are acting as a magnet to draw Japanese troops away from other areas. That may turn out to be an asset.

Worst case is, it has added a bit of excitement to the battle.

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Post #: 20
- 1/21/2003 3:26:12 AM   
Ezikel

 

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline 		The best example i can think of with SAS as of late is proberbly the Normandy Gold campaign. The first mission is naturally, gold beach (apparently, but i dont think only 3 bunkers, (only one of them i even get near unless ive got bugger all to do) very realistic) the last time i did it i have 9 SAS 6 man squads and another 4 squads in the 100 pt AUX force.

I infiltrated all 13 squads into the town, turn 2-3, 2 squads pop-up, they are about 3-5 hexs from about 5-6 german squads that they can see, but i dont move them. Turn 3-4, another 3 squads pop-up, still non seen and i can see another 2 squads and 3 other them i can take out in cross fire. I take 2 squads and a half, turn 4-5, 4 squad come in and they are STILL not seen even though 2 of them land ontop of german un-surpressed units.

I think the SAS either have demolition kits or satchel charges, either way i kill the best part of a company if not that, and not one squad was seen until it fired, in the end i lost about 7-10 men all spread accross the squads.... this was before my first landing ships had reached the shore and i had effectively taken the town.

....oh and i had Fireflys in the landing craft GOGO 17pdr :-D

_____________________________

OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

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Post #: 21
Havin fun - 1/22/2003 1:55:22 AM   
robot


Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline 		All in all i am pleased how my commandos have been workin out. I assign like 3 squads to a town that has a road thru it. Another 3 squads may have a bridge to hold. It is fun to see if they can hold out till i break thru to them. Still have not set up german special forces with a paradrop to help reinforce them. As you dont know when at start when the infiltrators will come on. I thought i would set my paras to arrive some where between 11 and 14 turns what do you all think.;) :cool:

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Post #: 22
Re: Havin fun - 1/22/2003 2:26:50 AM   
Capt. Pixel

 

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by robot
[B]... As you dont know when at start when the infiltrators will come on. I thought i would set my paras to arrive some where between 11 and 14 turns what do you all think...[/B][/QUOTE]

Sounds about right. I find that infiltrators arrive from turns 3 to about 12 with a 50% to 75% arrival rate. If you use them to 'prep' the airborne landing area, bringing in your paradrops after about turn 8 works pretty well, in my experience.

Another thing to consider is to set all your infiltrators Opp Fire to '0' before you plot their target hexes. When they arrive (If they arrive), they'll be a lot harder for the enemy to spot.

You can also use them as artillery spotters for rear area enemy concentrations. It's nice to be able to suppress those AA guns before the transports start showing up. :cool:

You can also smoke up the landing area to reduce ground fire on the landed troops and to help hide your infiltrators. (BTW, AA ignores smoke when firing at aircraft.)

_____________________________

"Always mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy, if possible. "
- Stonewall Jackson

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Post #: 23
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