Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

Some of these posts seem ridiculous to me. So you don't have a job, or have other priorities, then don't buy the game, buy food instead. This is a premium game and priced accordingly, for the first release.

1) don't want the maps, don't buy them--nuff said
2) Want to buy the game cheaper, without hard covers, wait before you purchase
3) Are excited about the game, would like the hard cover, which most likely only be available for a short time, buy it now before card covers run out
4) If you want the game, and have the money, but don't want the maps, buy it, wrap the hard covers in plastic and sell them on ebay a year from now when they are longer available, buy food stamps and send them to the naysayers in this thread

To me, the post "... The three hardbound volumes + maps will be at a lower price (about half) than the Essen package ($150E) which includes the maps..." is a good news story. Under the price point I thought I would be buying for and I get the hardcovers!!!

There is an incredible amount of value in this game, I have bought games previously that never lived up to marketing hype and have paid at least half, I don't think that is the case here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We looked at it this way - this is primarily a game for tabletop WIF players. It is also an awesome computer wargame just as it is an awesome tabletop wargame, but without an AI in the initial release, that's a hard hill for many primarily computer wargamers to climb, who are used to AI releases. The WIF community, as a primarily tabletop community, is also used to getting a good physical package for their money. The work that went into WIF development and keeping it faithful to the tabletop game was beyond anything we've ever done before. Development-wise, this is about ten normal games rolled into one.

So our first thought was how to do justice to this game and give the WIF community something special. The hard-bound volumes, the first hard-bound large full color volumes Matrix Games has ever released, are the first part. The biggest wargame map possibly ever printed is the second part. We feel those are a key part of doing this release right. Removing the hard-bound volumes, even though they are costly to print, would not have resulted in a significantly reduced price due to the time that this was in development. By doing this we actually reduced our profit margin per unit as the planned price point has always been in this range. We decided to add in the manuals and the map pack to make it the best release possible.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur
..
There are only two WW II board games which stand out of the rest. The first is (Advanced) Squad Leader on a tactical level. The second is World in Flames on the strategic level. Both are way ahead of any other board games ever made.
I hope (and I expect) that quite a few games will be sold to the WiF community as it is now. Of the computer people, there probably will be more people who will wait for an AI.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AxelNL

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur
..
There are only two WW II board games which stand out of the rest. The first is (Advanced) Squad Leader on a tactical level. The second is World in Flames on the strategic level. Both are way ahead of any other board games ever made.
I hope (and I expect) that quite a few games will be sold to the WiF community as it is now. Of the computer people, there probably will be more people who will wait for an AI.

I agree, how about Russian Campaign on an operational level? (Running the risk of igniting a whole new topic here?)

Cheers,

Lex

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Please see my reply here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3447896

There is indeed a PDF version of all the documentation included on the DVD and customers who purchase WIF will also get a download link, but we feel that the physical aspect is too important to this release to separate it from the release.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Please see my reply here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3447896

There is indeed a PDF version of all the documentation included on the DVD and customers who purchase WIF will also get a download link, but we feel that the physical aspect is too important to this release to separate it from the release.

Look what you have to understand Erik - is that I am questioning physical only because I need to get this past the wife. Digital is fine for me - as she knows not what goes on in my computer. A big parcel however will get noticed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Please see my reply here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3447896

There is indeed a PDF version of all the documentation included on the DVD and customers who purchase WIF will also get a download link, but we feel that the physical aspect is too important to this release to separate it from the release.

Look what you have to understand Erik - is that I am questioning physical only because I need to get this past the wife. Digital is fine for me - as she knows not what goes on in my computer. A big parcel however will get noticed.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Please see my reply here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3447896

There is indeed a PDF version of all the documentation included on the DVD and customers who purchase WIF will also get a download link, but we feel that the physical aspect is too important to this release to separate it from the release.

Look what you have to understand Erik - is that I am questioning physical only because I need to get this past the wife. Digital is fine for me - as she knows not what goes on in my computer. A big parcel however will get noticed.

warspite1

To be fair DBeves I think you are looking at this completely wrong.

So Matrix have produced, what can only be described as, stonkingly- beautiful, hard bound rule books. Its not just the fact they are hard bound but the look of the pages within screams Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y.

Now you are worried that the Mrs will see these come into the house and give you hell for spending money on this game rather than food an' $%^&. Moreover, if she has her way you will not be allowed to spend the money in the first place....

Well the answer, if I may say, is glaringly obvious. First , you have to understand what is important to you. Then, when you have made the right choice - and there is only one choice - you must love and cherish that which you care for the most. So:

Bye Mrs DBeves....

quote:

ORIGINAL: bo

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Please see my reply here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3447896

There is indeed a PDF version of all the documentation included on the DVD and customers who purchase WIF will also get a download link, but we feel that the physical aspect is too important to this release to separate it from the release.

Look what you have to understand Erik - is that I am questioning physical only because I need to get this past the wife. Digital is fine for me - as she knows not what goes on in my computer. A big parcel however will get noticed.

warspite1

To be fair DBeves I think you are looking at this completely wrong.

So Matrix have produced, what can only be described as, stonkingly- beautiful, hard bound rule books. Its not just the fact they are hard bound but the look of the pages within screams Q-U-A-L-I-T-Y.

Now you are worried that the Mrs will see these come into the house and give you hell for spending money on this game rather than food an' $%^&. Moreover, if she has her way you will not be allowed to spend the money in the first place....

Well the answer, if I may say, is glaringly obvious. First , you have to understand what is important to you. Then, when you have made the right choice - and there is only one choice - you must love and cherish that which you care for the most. So:

Bye Mrs DBeves....

An Englishman with humor, whats next

Bo

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We looked at it this way - this is primarily a game for tabletop WIF players. It is also an awesome computer wargame just as it is an awesome tabletop wargame, but without an AI in the initial release, that's a hard hill for many primarily computer wargamers to climb, who are used to AI releases. The WIF community, as a primarily tabletop community, is also used to getting a good physical package for their money. The work that went into WIF development and keeping it faithful to the tabletop game was beyond anything we've ever done before. Development-wise, this is about ten normal games rolled into one.

So our first thought was how to do justice to this game and give the WIF community something special. The hard-bound volumes, the first hard-bound large full color volumes Matrix Games has ever released, are the first part. The biggest wargame map possibly ever printed is the second part. We feel those are a key part of doing this release right. Removing the hard-bound volumes, even though they are costly to print, would not have resulted in a significantly reduced price due to the time that this was in development. By doing this we actually reduced our profit margin per unit as the planned price point has always been in this range. We decided to add in the manuals and the map pack to make it the best release possible.

Regards,

- Erik

quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet

Dog, you dont have to buy the maps, there will an option to buy with and without the 21' map however you get the books whether you want them or not.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

I only have one worry, if I don't order on launch day I miss the first print run.

I am fully versed in all the conspiracy theories, and all the troubles that beset digital products. I am fully versed in all the means by which to sell a digital product. That is not to say you are not either, so please stop reading sentences that are not there.

I bought War in the East, and I knew it was going to be massively complex. I went and got a professionally printed copy of the manual, but even at just a basic black and white printing, with spiral binging and a simple clear plastic cover and card stock back, it cost me 40 bucks.

It's a lot of paper.

Te idea that WiF printed and in colour and in decent type font and hard bound like the great book it will be is a bad purchase is simply too crazy to listen to. Go ahead, complain if you must about me saying that. Talk to the hand boys. I have a 7 inch Nexus and a 10 inch Transformer, and no, I don't really want to be stuck reading a manual that overwhelming as a pdf. There are limits. That's an idea for light reading novels, and 30 page manuals not worth the effort to print as you might read them 3 times before realizing you have mastered the instructions.

There is no time anyone ever actually memorizes the ASL manual eh. If you haven't played in a few months, it means a night studying before the next game.

I have yet to ever master the A3R manual, which explains why I use a copy at the game, they get thumbed all to hell.

The Longest Day is a rare exception to the norm, it is merely a massive board game. It has some of the simplest most elegant rules in the industry.

The Europa design though is like World in Flames. They have both spawned a considerable sum of modules over a time period that allowed them to evolve. They are simply that complex. And the idea of a great printed set of manuals, I consider it an indication Slitherine Group has taken the game seriously.

Yes there are other titles they might have made nice printed manuals for. I have a printed copy of the very colourful Battles in Normandy manual. I figured it was worth it at the time. It helped I had use of a friends colour printer of course :) But that game while very nice, is not the same magnitude really.

There is no mystery about this being a first time. I don't think there are any secret deals with Harry. I think all the guys wanting this game, likely already own the board game. I don't think Harry has lost any sales. I know how big the game is set up, and VASSAL won't make my kitchen larger. There are limits to how far you can get a utility to perform.

I'm likely not going to get to get the bonus maps for the same reason I likely will not be getting a new stove. The one I have is ok :) (ok it isn't but sometimes you have to live with your options eh).

The manuals being shipped making it too expensive? Heck if you can't afford the shipping, you likely already can't afford the game either.
Come on boys, sometimes you are the guy that doesn't get to get the game eh. You can't demand the game be made cheap just so you are not left out. That's like me getting bitchy because I can't afford a Porsche.

I'm only suffering from an obsessive need to visit the product page, and confirm, yep still not on sale yet, even though all comments point to it not being before Nov 7 :) And no doubt, I will be reluctant to go to bed on the 6th. I can actually see myself staying up all night waiting (thought I would throw that out there so some of you blokes didn't think you were the only ones :) ).

It's too bad this game won't get any fancy launch party at my friends Gamestop store for midnight.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer
Te idea that WiF printed and in colour and in decent type font and hard bound like the great book it will be is a bad purchase is simply too crazy to listen to. Go ahead, complain if you must about me saying that. Talk to the hand boys. I have a 7 inch Nexus and a 10 inch Transformer, and no, I don't really want to be stuck reading a manual that overwhelming as a pdf. There are limits. That's an idea for light reading novels, and 30 page manuals not worth the effort to print as you might read them 3 times before realizing you have mastered the instructions.

quote:


The manuals being shipped making it too expensive? Heck if you can't afford the shipping, you likely already can't afford the game either.
Come on boys, sometimes you are the guy that doesn't get to get the game eh. You can't demand the game be made cheap just so you are not left out. That's like me getting bitchy because I can't afford a Porsche.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CheerfullyInsane
... If this means I'll have to wait for the hard-copies to sell out in order to get a DL-only version, so be it.