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I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 4:57:23 PM   
Dr. Foo


Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Playing Barbarossa.

The air phase advances from Att. Bombers & Escorts to Perform Mission bypassing Def Interceptors and all the other sub-phases in between.

I've checked my optional rules selection and I do not see anything that would allow for bypassing these phases. I've also checked the Disable Phases section and made sure all were enabled.

I have interceptors in range both for Att. and Def. and still nothing.


_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*
Post #: 1
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 5:08:29 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

Playing Barbarossa.

The air phase advances from Att. Bombers & Escorts to Perform Mission bypassing Def Interceptors and all the other sub-phases in between.

I've checked my optional rules selection and I do not see anything that would allow for bypassing these phases. I've also checked the Disable Phases section and made sure all were enabled.

I have interceptors in range both for Att. and Def. and still nothing.



FTR's have to be within half their range to use as interceptors. So if you've got a FTR with a 4 as movement, it has to be within two hexes of the target hex. Did you take this into account?

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Peter

(in reply to Dr. Foo)
Post #: 2
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 5:15:07 PM   
Dr. Foo


Posts: 666
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		Yes sir, that was it. Thank you. I knew I was missing something and that was it!

_____________________________

*Warning: Dr. Foo is not an actual doctor.
Do not accept or follow any medical advice*

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 3
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 5:15:38 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		You're welcome...

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Peter

(in reply to Dr. Foo)
Post #: 4
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 6:47:04 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		Is this explained in the manual somewhere? I don't have them at hand to look this up. Could someone please point me to the section in one of the manuals?

Thank you.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 5
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 6:58:59 PM   
goulash

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 8/4/2011
Status: offline 		God damn noobs

Nah seriously that was a total joke

I am still on the vids only and will need to watch them 2 or 3 times before even going into the other learner materials.

< Message edited by goulash -- 11/11/2013 8:05:14 PM >

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 6
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 7:04:55 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		RAC - Volume 3, page 120

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 7
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 7:07:01 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		Thank you. Do you recommend a newbie read the RAC manual first, rather than the other two volumes? I was starting with volume 1, but if important details like this are not explained, then I want to start with volume 3 to learn the game rules, and use volumes 1 and 2 for reference on how to do things with the user interface. Is that the better way to go about it?





< Message edited by jglazier -- 11/11/2013 8:08:27 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 8
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 7:21:17 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Thank you. Do you recommend a newbie read the RAC manual first, rather than the other two volumes? I was starting with volume 1, but if important details like this are not explained, then I want to start with volume 3 to learn the game rules, and use volumes 1 and 2 for reference on how to do things with the user interface. Is that the better way to go about it?





Your choice. An argument could be made for reading them 1, 2, 3 or 3, 1, 2. Volume 3 (a slightly edited version of Rules as Written by Australian Design Group for the board game) reads more like a legal document. I softened some of those edges when I wrote volumes 1 and 2.

Some of the optional rules described in RAC have not yet been implemented in MWIF. So you might want to skip over those paragraphs.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 9
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 9:31:04 PM   
Tonqeen


Posts: 45
Joined: 1/31/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

FTR's have to be within half their range to use as interceptors. So if you've got a FTR with a 4 as movement, it has to be within two hexes of the target hex. Did you take this into account?


Is that changed since 5th ed? We always playd with full range for interception

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 10
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 10:27:46 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		Trust me Dr. Foo, I feel your pain.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr. Foo

Playing Barbarossa.

The air phase advances from Att. Bombers & Escorts to Perform Mission bypassing Def Interceptors and all the other sub-phases in between.

I've checked my optional rules selection and I do not see anything that would allow for bypassing these phases. I've also checked the Disable Phases section and made sure all were enabled.

I have interceptors in range both for Att. and Def. and still nothing.




_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Dr. Foo)
Post #: 11
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 11:27:12 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		This is kind of frustrating to me. Volumes 1 and 2 are supposed to be manuals on how to play the game. However, nowhere in either of these manuals does it tell you that intercepting fighters can only move half their printed movement to reach an intercept hex. I am just using this as an example. I'm guessing there are many other detail rules like this to learn.

I am not trying to knock the manuals or the writers by any stretch, they are excellently written. I am just stating my opinion, that is it seems to me it will be VERY difficult to learn how to play this game correctly without reading all three manuals extremely carefully.

I guess volumes 1 and 2 are more of a reference to what all the screens and forms do, with very basics about how to execute movement and combat, instead of a detailed explanation of all the rules involved in each function.

This is fine, I'm just trying to understand the best and most efficient way to learn this game, but perhaps there isn't one. Maybe we do have to study all three manuals to really understand each phase of this game.

My last comment (I hope this is not being taken as a rant, but more constructive feedback) - there are sections in volumes 1 and 2 that talk about air interception (7.8.4 and 7.8.5). This detail about range restriction should have been written there, along with any other restrictions or rules about air interception. Instead, there is just a small paragraph that basically says you can move all your air units to intercept a hex where you have flown bombers.

Again - I'm just using this one example to make my point.

Ok - enough - back to the learning curve! I WILL learn this game!
Thanks for listening.

< Message edited by jglazier -- 11/12/2013 12:33:09 AM >

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 12
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 11:30:46 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

quote:

FTR's have to be within half their range to use as interceptors. So if you've got a FTR with a 4 as movement, it has to be within two hexes of the target hex. Did you take this into account?


Is that changed since 5th ed? We always playd with full range for interception

You will find the changes since the 5th edition are considerable.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Tonqeen)
Post #: 13
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 11:33:05 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

quote:

FTR's have to be within half their range to use as interceptors. So if you've got a FTR with a 4 as movement, it has to be within two hexes of the target hex. Did you take this into account?


Is that changed since 5th ed? We always playd with full range for interception

You will find the changes since the 5th edition are considerable.
warspite1

I am finding this - frankly in some ways a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you are a 5th Edition player like me, don't assume anything!!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 14
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 11:40:31 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

This is kind of frustrating to me. Volumes 1 and 2 are supposed to be manuals on how to play the game. However, nowhere in either of these manuals does it tell you that intercepting fighters can only move half their printed movement to reach an intercept hex. I am just using this as an example. I'm guessing there are many other detail rules like this to learn.

I am not trying to knock the manuals or the writers by any stretch, they are excellently written. I am just stating my opinion, that is it seems to me it will be VERY difficult to learn how to play this game correctly without reading all three manuals extremely carefully.

I guess volumes 1 and 2 are more of a reference to what all the screens and forms do, with very basics about how to execute movement and combat, instead of a detailed explanation of all the rules involved in each function.

This is fine, I'm just trying to understand the best and most efficient way to learn this game, but perhaps there isn't one. Maybe we do have to study all three manuals to really understand each phase of this game.

My last comment (I hope this is not being taken as a rant, but more constructive feedback) - there are sections in volumes 1 and 2 that talk about air interception (7.8.4 and 7.8.5). This detail should have been written there, along with any other restrictions or rules about air interception. Instead, there is just a small paragraph that basically says you can move all your air units to intercept a hex where you have flown bombers.

Again - I'm just using this one example to make my point.

Ok - enough - back to the learning curve! I WILL learn this game!
Thanks for listening.


Like any new wargame a person must read the rules in order to play the game. AAMOF it may take several readings and several plays before you remember all the rules you need to play skilfully.

This is where MWiF differs from wargames that were designed specifically for a computer. It is a representation of a board game that has gone through seven iterations of rule evolution. Sure it enforces the rules, but a player still has to know the rules in order to play.

There had to be three main components in the manuals - the rules, the "how to" of using the program and the "how to" for strategy considerations - this last being what is often in a wargame called the "Designer Notes".


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Paul

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 15
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/11/2013 11:58:21 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		Oh, I completely agree that a person must read the rules to learn the game. This is just a different animal, because there are no other 550 page game manuals as far as I know.

I guess there are no shortcuts to learning this game. Everything must be read and studied. That's fine. I just wish all aspects of each phase were in one place, instead of scattered piecemeal throughout three massive tomes.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 16
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 12:07:45 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I think your closest bet for that would be the RAC which follows the rules as written and they were written in sequence of play order.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 17
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 12:25:49 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Oh, I completely agree that a person must read the rules to learn the game. This is just a different animal, because there are no other 550 page game manuals as far as I know.

I guess there are no shortcuts to learning this game. Everything must be read and studied. That's fine. I just wish all aspects of each phase were in one place, instead of scattered piecemeal throughout three massive tomes.

Section 7 of the Players Manual gives a light overview of each element of the sequence of play. Each subsection identifies where to find the rules for that phase/subphase/sub-subphase in RAC.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 18
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 12:31:34 AM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		I thought the 5th edition would be the Final and last edition.
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tonqeen

quote:

FTR's have to be within half their range to use as interceptors. So if you've got a FTR with a 4 as movement, it has to be within two hexes of the target hex. Did you take this into account?


Is that changed since 5th ed? We always playd with full range for interception

You will find the changes since the 5th edition are considerable.
warspite1

I am finding this - frankly in some ways a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. If you are a 5th Edition player like me, don't assume anything!!




_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 19
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 2:20:48 AM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: jglazier

Oh, I completely agree that a person must read the rules to learn the game. This is just a different animal, because there are no other 550 page game manuals as far as I know.

I guess there are no shortcuts to learning this game. Everything must be read and studied. That's fine. I just wish all aspects of each phase were in one place, instead of scattered piecemeal throughout three massive tomes.

Section 7 of the Players Manual gives a light overview of each element of the sequence of play. Each subsection identifies where to find the rules for that phase/subphase/sub-subphase in RAC.


Aha! I did not notice the references to the RAC book. That should help a lot! You are the man, Steve!

< Message edited by jglazier -- 11/12/2013 3:22:37 AM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 20
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 4:49:03 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		Glazier, in fairness I am also reading the manuals now, and so far I think volume 1 has mentioned twice about intercepts at half range. But this stuff is very dense.

The main problem with the manual I've notice so dar is that early in volumes it gives various gameplay tips before explaining how the game works. I think it might be better to start with RAC, but not sure yet. Kudos to matrix for the excellent manual, but I think that any way you cut it there will be a very steep learning curve.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 21
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 1:23:37 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		Thank you 76! That gives me more confidence in the books, along with Steve's mention of the RAC references in sequence of play sections. Now, back to reading the War and Peace of game manuals!

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 22
RE: I'm doing something wrong - 11/12/2013 1:40:29 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		in one sense, the first two scenarios are 'shortcuts' to learning the full game. you can play Barbarossa by just learning the supply, and land/air combat rules. admittedly, a lot to start out. but you can completely skip the naval section and never touch a naval unit in that scenario; then in production only build Infantry.

that is still quite a bit to digest, but leaves some major rules systems to be absorbed later.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 23
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