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RE: Don't forget the "etc."

 
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RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 1:46:34 AM   
Lingering Frey

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 2/16/2012
Status: offline 		Oh lord, PLEASE don't implement Frogmen. That optional rule is so out of place. WiF is an abstract corps level game.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 61
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 2:27:36 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline 		hmm, without knowing more about the "missing optional rules" than the names posted in this thread, most of them look like useless chrome (frogmen? partisan hqs?).

I'd much prefer to see all bugs firmly quashed, multiplayer opened up, even an AI.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/13/2013 3:29:13 AM >

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 62
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 2:39:36 AM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		I really don't see where Matrix World in Flames is in any way "divergent" from ADG World in Flames, like it's some new game or something. It's just not 100% caught up to the state of the paper game. No matter how much you want it to be, to have the computer and paper versions 100% the same is YEARS away. Of the things that aren't in the game right NOW NOW NOW, about one half of them are a small amount of Chrome units that will likely be easily added soon enough. Many of the others are rules infrequently chosen by the players. Bounce Combat is a major system that has pluses and minuses......but do you really want to use Bounce Combat when playing Hotseat? Sure, some people will, and I expect it will come along eventually. But a lot of people would vote no on that.

The original poster is hinting at some conspiracy to change his beloved game, spill his milk and steal his cookies. If you look into the history of the development of this project, you will see that a few decisions have been made to get the game out to the people that want it, as-is. The AI players can't have their AI, not YET. The huge Days of Decisions fans can't have that game included, not YET. Factories in Flames, not YET.

No one has said "We'll NEVER do your favorite rule" anywhere that I have ever read. This has been the most open game development process, probably ever. Not all requests could be met, immediately. Trade-offs had to be decided. Anyone in the world was allowed to chime in their 2 cents on any topic at any time, and even severe criticisms were responded to and considered. If you stayed silent through it, well now is not a very good time to start crying about it all.

The bottom line is that there is no way to code this game with every feature that every player wants, unless you want to wait MORE YEARS. That is not an attitude that is very conducive to the development of the game, and something every fan of World in Flames should be very, very happy to see: NEW PLAYERS.

It's all about MEEEEEEEE. No one else can have the game, until I get the game I want. Cripes.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 63
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 12:26:13 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		The Italian frogmen, or Decima Flottiglia MAS, sank or damaged 130,000 tons of shipping, including 5 warships. They were strategically significant.

Yugoslavia was basically liberated by partisans. That sounds like a reasonable place for a partisan HQ.

These optional rules have been developed by people who really know their stuff.

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/13/2013 1:26:27 PM >

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 64
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 12:45:42 PM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 2449
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lingering Frey

Oh lord, PLEASE don't implement Frogmen. That optional rule is so out of place. WiF is an abstract corps level game.


When frogmen sinked or damaged in truth units represented in the game, like battleships or cruisers, they should have a place in WIF and MWIF.

The best of Optional Rules is that they are Not Compulsory.

(in reply to Lingering Frey)
Post #: 65
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 5:12:42 PM   
GFelz

 

Posts: 479
Joined: 8/27/2010
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I have read the OP's posts several times. It boils down to two ideas.

The first idea is that the OP is displeased with Matrix and Slitherine. This displeasure is based on the idea that there was in his opinion false advertising. You understood that you were going to purchase a replica of WiF. Once you purchased and investigated you discovered that MWiF is not a replica of WiF. You took a leap of faith based on the reputation that each company has for producing great games and paid first.

I suggest that the problem is with you in this case. You willing spent a lot of money for something you are unsatisfied with without doing your own due diligence.

The second idea presented is that you are dissatisfied with the efforts of the individual that inherited and built (coded) the game. Now you may not have intended your ideas to be interrupted in this fashion but your words and tone (as written) was quite derogatory. I am assuming you did not mean for that to happen. Unfortunately people took offense to your words.

So, with respect, I would suggest you make to separate posts: One about false advertising and the other about your concerns regarding the coding of the game.

Finally I think it is important that you appreciate the nature of this community on the Matric forums. You call them apologists. In some regards you are using the correct word however you use the word without any regard as to why. Allow me to explain.

This WiF forum has been open for a long time. The developer, Steve, has made a point of soliciting ideas, opinions, criticisms "etc" from those that frequent this forum. Over time people saw their individual contributions help shape the development of MWiF. They developed a vested interest in the success of this project. What is interesting about this is that the community is a mixture of WiF veterans and people new to Wif. All comments were reviewed, debated and decided upon. New comers and forum veteran alike had equal say. This was truly a community effort. A lot of people put in a lot of effort to help Steve get this game to where it is now.

Unfortunately your opening post had within it a tone that was read as a criticism of everyone involved. Unfortunately your subsequent posts reinforced that feeling (based in the nature of the responses).

I would respectfully suggest that you take the time to review a sampling of the posts over the years. Get a feel for the effort that has been made and the passion that has been developed for this project. Once that has been accomplished I encourage you to come back and post again about your concerns. I suspect your words would be received far better and a true dialogue could be developed.

In the meantime, you have the prerogative to continue as is and if you truly believe you have been mislead, slighted or otherwise harmed from the purchase of this product then speak out on every forum you think appropriate. I have no doubt there will be many that will disagree with you.

(in reply to icitrom_y)
Post #: 66
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 7:27:23 PM   
boshar

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 4/1/2003
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I really don't get this discussion. If you are a serious WiF player and you already have all the rules you can simply use Vassal module and play according to the latest rules and even your own in house rules are possible that way. The way I see it MWiF is a better option for people starting with the game (the computer enforcing the rules makes it easier). Why would you as a serious WiF player even need the Matrix computer version?

Now for the argument that this computer version should match the latest board game edition and is not worth its money at its current state. You must be joking. I just had a look over at ADG's website. If I would buy the full board game updated to the 2013 standard that would cost me $ 500,- (includes shipping). See for yourself http://www.a-d-g.com.au//cgi/product_details?pr_id=3 Would it be okay in your book if Matrix Games added all the 2013 modules in an add-on and charge you $ 300,- extra? It would merely cost you as much as the board game version (and they could claim you are saving on costs as you don't need to extend your house to setup and play the game).
To be fair there are other purchase options on that site but the way I understand it is that if you want something like FiF added to those versions its a separate purchase http://www.a-d-g.com.au//cgi/product_details?pr_id=114 cost $ 60 (includes shipping)

BTW What would ADG do if we bombarded their contact e-mail (they don't have a forum) and the BGG WiF forum with messages that we just want them to ship PDF's with the rules and we don't need their paper manuals, thousands of counters and oversized maps. We could go yelling just give us the PDF's cheap we don't like your art and quality of printed materials anyway. Boy would we look silly.



(in reply to GFelz)
Post #: 67
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/13/2013 10:46:32 PM   
bairdlander2


Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar


BTW What would ADG do if we bombarded their contact e-mail (they don't have a forum) and the BGG WiF forum with messages that we just want them to ship PDF's with the rules and we don't need their paper manuals, thousands of counters and oversized maps. We could go yelling just give us the PDF's cheap we don't like your art and quality of printed materials anyway. Boy would we look silly.




I was going to e mail them,but it states any concerns of pc game post on this forum.I will purchase once there is pbem and the physical book issue is resoleved,which I dont think they will change,but I can wait

(in reply to boshar)
Post #: 68
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/14/2013 1:49:04 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar
We could go yelling just give us the PDF's cheap we don't like your art and quality of printed materials anyway. Boy would we look silly.

Of course we would look silly, since Matrix is selling the game. And the art and quality of printed materials has nothing to do with anything, since the art is already captured in the pdfs and I don't want ANY printed materials, so their quality is completely irrelevant. You honestly could not give me a copy of the board game for free; I wouldn't ever use it and don't want it taking up closet space.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 11/14/2013 2:49:33 AM >

(in reply to boshar)
Post #: 69
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/14/2013 4:19:44 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline 		Well said GFelz everything you say is correct about how Steve listened to all of us beta testers and general posters. You have the pulse of most of the posters here. In a way I feel for icitrom_y only because he feels he has been had regardles whether he should have checked it out better or not. I mean that, a lot of money has been invested by him and he is not a happy camper. I do not like to see anyone be unhappy with this brilliant game.

There are some other posts here that I do not understand, besides what options are in the game or not in the game, there is one option you still have and that is dont buy the game if your unhappy with the outcome of the game. The only people in my mind who have a legitimate complaint about anything they do not like in the game are the people who bought the game. I was never a board game player and could care less about what optional rules are in the game or not in the game, this will be resolved with time.

At this time here and now my only concern is to assist the people who purchased this game and help them understand the game for their own enjoyment.

I am a little confused as to what ADG has to do with the rule books, never heard they had anything to do with printed materials, but could be wrong so please enlighten me on that one and I will stand corrected.

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/14/2013 5:22:31 AM >

(in reply to icitrom_y)
Post #: 70
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/14/2013 4:26:04 AM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bairdlander


quote:

ORIGINAL: boshar


BTW What would ADG do if we bombarded their contact e-mail (they don't have a forum) and the BGG WiF forum with messages that we just want them to ship PDF's with the rules and we don't need their paper manuals, thousands of counters and oversized maps. We could go yelling just give us the PDF's cheap we don't like your art and quality of printed materials anyway. Boy would we look silly.




I was going to e mail them,but it states any concerns of pc game post on this forum.I will purchase once there is pbem and the physical book issue is resoleved,which I dont think they will change,but I can wait


Your going to wait for a very very long time maybe eons

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/14/2013 5:26:56 AM >

(in reply to bairdlander2)
Post #: 71
RE: Don't forget the "etc." - 11/14/2013 4:45:06 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline 		I read this long thread, and I have deduced it is a strange moon-cycle.

Please save money if this projeckt seems unfinished.

Many of us are still rejoicing in glee, as the rules for this game are strict and difficult to decipher.

Out of the nearly twenty wiffers I've met, only three or four that I can remember could pull out the rulebook and prove they were right in short notice.

Of Steve, we always want more, of course...

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 72
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