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Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 12:25:10 AM   
Gas Can

 

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While I do appreciate the complexity offered by the game, I really hate the way the game complicate gameplays for no good reason.

(1)Ship&Base design:
Some components, like Hab Module and Life Support, serve no purpose at all--less is useless, more is unnecessary. All they do to players are to make them click a few more buttons, wasting more times to accomplish something simple. Just remove them please.

Also, currently it is really difficult to quickly locate the components you need in the design penal because all those other components that you never want to use taking up the space. For example, if I'm using Phaser, than I should be able to erase Laser from the component list, making it clean.

(2)Wonders: Currently speaking wonders play a huge role in boosting the development level of the planets and other empire-wide benefits. Please make it an option that anyone building the wonder would receive the benefit without having to build it first, so that I can enjoy a more dynamic universe setting in which there are big advanced empires and small new empires and the game can still be balanced, otherwise the strong one would only get even stronger.

(3)Diplomacy: The current diplomacy mech is stupid: AIs being angry at a newly met species for no reason, and small poor empires become furious at large rich empires even if they are allies(you dont see Canada being furious at USA lol), and also that you can have 2 allies who hate each other, and you end up choosing whether to piss one of them off other piss both of them off when they go to war and ask for your support.

Suggestions:
Newly met empires should be able to quickly establish beneficial relationships like non-aggression pact or trade agreement depending on their similarity.
Forming additional mutual defense pact requires permission from the existing members. Once formed, all members would be within one single pact.
For small empires, they should tend to stick together when there are big empires around. Empires with strong common enemies should put aside their differences.

(4)Racial conflict: So I have taken over an alien race planet and after generations the inhabitants are still mad at me even if they are offered equal rights and are enjoying great wealth? In WWII, most second/third generation US citizens of Japanese origin served USA loyally and considered themselves US citizens.

(5)Commonwealth: Like the United Federation of Planets in Star Trek, multiple races should be able to form a single political entity.
Post #: 1
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 3:16:52 AM   
VorteeX

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can

While I do appreciate the complexity offered by the game, I really hate the way the game complicate gameplays for no good reason.

(1)Ship&Base design:
Some components, like Hab Module and Life Support, serve no purpose at all--less is useless, more is unnecessary. All they do to players are to make them click a few more buttons, wasting more times to accomplish something simple. Just remove them please.

It's leave area for future like AI controlled ships so u save some space instead crew u can mount more weapons. And i wanna alot more complicated ships design like in Space Empires V. If u don't like ships design u can leave them on auto.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can
Also, currently it is really difficult to quickly locate the components you need in the design penal because all those other components that you never want to use taking up the space. For example, if I'm using Phaser, than I should be able to erase Laser from the component list, making it clean.

Thats why this game is for humans not monkeys, u can change a mind like humans do. So why the game should deny this for you ?
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can
(2)Wonders: Currently speaking wonders play a huge role in boosting the development level of the planets and other empire-wide benefits. Please make it an option that anyone building the wonder would receive the benefit without having to build it first, so that I can enjoy a more dynamic universe setting in which there are big advanced empires and small new empires and the game can still be balanced, otherwise the strong one would only get even stronger.

Stronger is always get stronger. It's just another type of choice when you chose between colonize nice green empty world or much worse moved forward dangerous world with benefits for whole empire. You choice.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can
(3)Diplomacy: The current diplomacy mech is stupid: AIs being angry at a newly met species for no reason, and small poor empires become furious at large rich empires even if they are allies(you dont see Canada being furious at USA lol), and also that you can have 2 allies who hate each other, and you end up choosing whether to piss one of them off other piss both of them off when they go to war and ask for your support.

Suggestions:
Newly met empires should be able to quickly establish beneficial relationships like non-aggression pact or trade agreement depending on their similarity.
Forming additional mutual defense pact requires permission from the existing members. Once formed, all members would be within one single pact.
For small empires, they should tend to stick together when there are big empires around. Empires with strong common enemies should put aside their differences.


But Syria "love" USA. Why ? Welcome in interspecies diplomacy, no one have instruction for this :) Diplomacy should give u full array of possibilities like "Ghandi style" peace in universe. Or evil doers who play you ally only to preapre plot to destroy you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can
(4)Racial conflict: So I have taken over an alien race planet and after generations the inhabitants are still mad at me even if they are offered equal rights and are enjoying great wealth? In WWII, most second/third generation US citizens of Japanese origin served USA loyally and considered themselves US citizens.

And i'm sure those Japanese US citizens go with smile on faces shoot to theirs distant cousins if USA start war with Japanese. That was sarcasm :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can
(5)Commonwealth: Like the United Federation of Planets in Star Trek, multiple races should be able to form a single political entity.

True, like in Space Empires V. Diplomacy allow to make multi side alliances. It's should be upgraded.


< Message edited by VorteeX -- 11/23/2013 4:19:05 AM >

(in reply to Gas Can)
Post #: 2
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 6:02:43 AM   
Shark7


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1. In shadows, your ships boarding defense is directly related to hab/life support. It is also boosted by troop modules and boarding pods. They do have a use.

3. The truth is that it would be far more likely for us to conquer/subjugate that race of intelligent insects we run across...after all, most humans find insects revolting. Should this be any different in a fictional galaxy full of diverse alien species? I think the natural reaction for meeting of two different species would be revulsion followed by fear....even hate. I'm not saying its rational...but who ever accused humans of being rational?

And no sovereign nation needs the permission of another to conduct their own diplomacy. You make alliances based on mutual benefit, not on dictatorial ultimatums.

Diplomacy takes time, lots of time. In the meeting of two alien species, there would be a big communication barrier. After all, my word for hello may be a the worst imaginable insult to something that speaks a different language.

I personally think diplomacy in DW is a bit too easy.

4. Your planet was taken over and subjugated by a group of vicious aliens. Many of your kind were killed during the war. Those kinds of things have a nasty habit of lingering and festering just below the surface. Especially depending on the treatment of the subjugated species following the war. Looking back at human history should teach us this lesson.

But believe it or not, #2 and #5 I really don't have any arguments against. I'm not really fond of 'wonders' that can only be built by 1 species in the first place, and I have always been an advocate of allowing true alliances in game.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to VorteeX)
Post #: 3
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 10:33:21 AM   
hewwo

 

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+1 for taking out gameplay mechanics that hardly add anything while improving the ones that do, instead of just tacking on more stuff (which I felt shadows was about a bit).

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 4
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 8:12:25 PM   
Plant


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(1)Ship&Base design: I agree. There are far too many components which seemingly exists to add flavour, and their effects can be implemented as a blanket bonus/effect, such as command centres and targeting bonuses and proximity sensors and life support and habitation. This would also make large ship less efficient as a side effect. Complexity for the sake of complexity is not usually considered to be desirable. Boarding strength can be tied to size anyways, as habitation and life support are directly proportional to size.

(2)Wonders: If what you mean is that wonders can be built by every race instead of being unique, I agree. Wonders need to be changed really, since most of them give economic gains on top of other effects, which I think is a bad idea.

(3)Diplomacy: The alliance mechanic seems stupid, but it's just as stupid as any other alliance system. Sword of the Stars had the same alliance system as the one you proposed, but what happens is that it became a race for alliances, as well as the stupid AI not dropping their initial ally for a more favourable alliance due to poor programming.

As for Empires hating each other, the AI is restricted by being stimulated to provide an interesting backdrop. So, they don't think like humans, so you must program a reason for them to be willing to declare war on each other? How would you do that? When there is a difference in military strength, they would hate each other and so the stronger empire can and is willing to declar war on the smaller empire. Otherwise there will be no wars, because the AI is incapable.

As for that big/small empires thing you talk about, there aren't many games that have a clever AI system like that. In fact you'll do better to propose a game that does. It'll be very hard to program for, considering that the AI isn't even coded to try to "win" the game!

(4)Racial conflict: In WW2 USA locked up Japanese people in concentration camp. They were American citizens mind you. And they are same race! They were even born on the same home planet!

(5)Commonwealth: Hell no. It's a bad game mechanic with no grounding in real life except as an appearance in a widely optimistic sci fi series.

< Message edited by Plant -- 11/23/2013 9:17:54 PM >

(in reply to Gas Can)
Post #: 5
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/23/2013 11:42:20 PM   
Gas Can

 

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(4)Racial conflict: Well I treated them well for generations, and considering that they used to be Military Dict or Hive Mind, at least some of them would welcome a democratic society in which they share equal rights and receive better benefits, not to mention that it was their race who went to war first.

(5)Commonwealth: Well this game is not a real life simulator anyway, so what not just for fun, assuming the coding works.

(in reply to Plant)
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RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/24/2013 11:41:22 AM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can

(4)Racial conflict: Well I treated them well for generations, and considering that they used to be Military Dict or Hive Mind, at least some of them would welcome a democratic society in which they share equal rights and receive better benefits, not to mention that it was their race who went to war first.


Why should they consider your type of government valid if you're too biased to even acknowledge the possibility of another government than your own being good? Just looking at human cultures, no one but Americans gets such a hard-on for democracy and even then thats only the American concept of democracy which would be a complete plutocracy by European standards of democracy, both of which would be absolutely abhorrent to many non-Western cultures. And thats just one race, humans, with different cultures. How can you honestly expect a completely alien race with a hive mind or some such to conform to your very narrow opinion of what constitutes a good government? /Rant

(in reply to Gas Can)
Post #: 7
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/24/2013 4:45:41 PM   
Plant


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Because gas can, it is a bad game mechanic. Bad game mechanics are not fun.

(in reply to Deathball)
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RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/24/2013 9:25:23 PM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Because gas can, it is a bad game mechanic. Bad game mechanics are not fun.


And you base that on what? I think its a good mechanic, it balances out the gains from having an alien population provide its bonuses to your empire.

(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 9
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 12:58:12 AM   
Gas Can

 

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Because according to the game mech, democracy gets higher approval rate than hive mind?

(in reply to Deathball)
Post #: 10
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 4:42:43 AM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gas Can

Because according to the game mech, democracy gets higher approval rate than hive mind?


Then the solution is obvious, make approval race dependent. Democracy should get higher approval ratings from races with a natural tendency towards it and lower from races with tendencies toward dictatorships and monarchies.

(in reply to Gas Can)
Post #: 11
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 2:37:18 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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Regarding ship design there seem to be an over arching tendency to only build very large ships, with a few exceptions they are just better in all respect.

Bigger ships does not need more fuel because they need the same size hyper-drives. This seem to defy all laws of physics, even if hyper-drive in and of itself does that... but that is beside the point. ;)

Also you can build any size ship in a singe shipyard, bigger shipyards should require bigger yards or at least take up several yards to build. In reality a country is severely limited in construction based on the size and capability of their naval yards. Bigger ships also tend to be less cost efficient on maintenance since they have more complex military system that needs constant support on less quantities.

I still think that bigger ships should overall be more powerful, but it should be more expensive to build up the infrastructure to build and maintain them. The game also give very few reason to spread ships out since detection generally is quite easy and it's not harder to detect a large ship than a small one (unless you use cloaking devices, which again is the same no matter the size of the ship).

I'm not looking into making smaller designs more powerful, but rather a reason for building them. Like scouting, reconnaissance, patrolling and stuff like that. It seems to be too much focus on big combat fleets being able to do everything.

Perhaps hyper-speed should be much slower within star-systems. Use the excuse that hyper-space around the gravity-well of a star makes it very slow, that would put more of an emphasis on spreading out smaller ships on patrol duty with faster in-system hyper-drives, while bigger combat ships have fast hyper-drives but slower in-system drives. Or something like it.

I could also see how acceleration and maximum speed could be tied to the size of a vessel. Large ships could theoretically achieve the same acceleration, turn rates and speed as a smaller ship. But, in reality, there are huge physical limitations on larger versus smaller structures and acceleration. This could also be a mechanic in favour of smaller ships.

I still like the game as it is, but things could perhaps always be better, my version might obviously not be to everyone's liking though.

< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 11/25/2013 3:44:38 PM >

(in reply to Deathball)
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RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 3:52:54 PM   
Shark7


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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorgen_CAB

Regarding ship design there seem to be an over arching tendency to only build very large ships, with a few exceptions they are just better in all respect.

Bigger ships does not need more fuel because they need the same size hyper-drives. This seem to defy all laws of physics, even if hyper-drive in and of itself does that... but that is beside the point. ;)

Also you can build any size ship in a singe shipyard, bigger shipyards should require bigger yards or at least take up several yards to build. In reality a country is severely limited in construction based on the size and capability of their naval yards. Bigger ships also tend to be less cost efficient on maintenance since they have more complex military system that needs constant support on less quantities.

I still think that bigger ships should overall be more powerful, but it should be more expensive to build up the infrastructure to build and maintain them. The game also give very few reason to spread ships out since detection generally is quite easy and it's not harder to detect a large ship than a small one (unless you use cloaking devices, which again is the same no matter the size of the ship).

I'm not looking into making smaller designs more powerful, but rather a reason for building them. Like scouting, reconnaissance, patrolling and stuff like that. It seems to be too much focus on big combat fleets being able to do everything.

Perhaps hyper-speed should be much slower within star-systems. Use the excuse that hyper-space around the gravity-well of a star makes it very slow, that would put more of an emphasis on spreading out smaller ships on patrol duty with faster in-system hyper-drives, while bigger combat ships have fast hyper-drives but slower in-system drives. Or something like it.

I could also see how acceleration and maximum speed could be tied to the size of a vessel. Large ships could theoretically achieve the same acceleration, turn rates and speed as a smaller ship. But, in reality, there are huge physical limitations on larger versus smaller structures and acceleration. This could also be a mechanic in favour of smaller ships.

I still like the game as it is, but things could perhaps always be better, my version might obviously not be to everyone's liking though.


I am a big advocate of a hardpoint system per 'chassis', as well as a more defined role within the fleet.

With a few modifications, the ships could become very much more useful is based on size. You could soft-cap ship size based on construction level as is current, but take it further...each ship class can use a certain % of construction size with the current 230 being the base (IE you always get at least 230 space to work with). For instance:

1. Escort 20% of current ship size or 230, whichever is bigger
2. Frigate 40% or 230.
3. Destroyer 60%.
4. Cruiser 80%.
5 Capital ships and carriers 100%.

So you ships all start with a 230 size but as your building tech increases, the smaller ships can't be built as big as the larger ones.

Add to that a fuel factor...the smaller the ship, the more efficient it is. So while a lumbering size 1500 battleship needs 6 fuel cells just to crass 1 sector, the escort capped at size 300 can go 5 times as far on half the fuel, etc.

Another way to improve would be to make the meaning of the small, medium and large startports mean something. Small can build escort or frigate, medium up to cruiser size, and large is required for capital ships and carriers.

Anyway, some ideas for DW2, don't really expect is in the current game.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Jorgen_CAB)
Post #: 13
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 4:20:12 PM   
Plant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Deathball


quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Because gas can, it is a bad game mechanic. Bad game mechanics are not fun.


And you base that on what? I think its a good mechanic, it balances out the gains from having an alien population provide its bonuses to your empire.

It was in Stardrive. In my first game, despite having the lowest military and tech, losing colonies to hostile forces, I won the game by the federation mechanic. I was so disgusted, that I never played the game again. It is a dumb game mechanic it doesn't balance anything. Go on and tell me why it is a good game mechanic. This federation mechanic is repeatedly asked for, but ultimately nobody goes and explain how it should work, and why it would be a good idea to have in a game.



As for the ship size mechanic, most of that problem come from if you unautomate ship design, and then you find out that the automated designs and ship ratios make no sense.

It's the problem of trying to fit pop cultural understanding of dreadnought era fleets into space in a way that makes sense, which no one has really solved. Mostly because it really doesn't make any sense to try. In the historical era, dreadnoughts overwhelmingly destroyed any number smaller cheaper ships if both were armed with guns. And were faster relatively to armour.

There has been so many ideas suggested to force a reason to design smaller combat ships, but most of those make no sense in the context of spaceships with sheilds.

I do like the idea of restricting upgrade sizes though has it makes sense, and make it so the reason why you have smaller ships is simply because you haven't retired them. Just like the reality of naval combat before missiles and monoplanes.

< Message edited by Plant -- 11/25/2013 5:36:36 PM >

(in reply to Deathball)
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RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 6:00:48 PM   
Deathball

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

It was in Stardrive. In my first game, despite having the lowest military and tech, losing colonies to hostile forces, I won the game by the federation mechanic. I was so disgusted, that I never played the game again. It is a dumb game mechanic it doesn't balance anything. Go on and tell me why it is a good game mechanic. This federation mechanic is repeatedly asked for, but ultimately nobody goes and explain how it should work, and why it would be a good idea to have in a game.


Rereading your posts it seems I misunderstood you. I thought you were referring to alien populations being unhappy in your empire being a bad mechanic. My bad.

Regarding ship sizes, the problem is that in real life, naval ships were designed with more of a Rock-Paper-Scissors mechanic in mind. You had your battleships which were specifically designed to be as good as possible at killing other surface vessels. They had huge gun batteries and heavy armor for that purpose but that also left them open to attacks from masses of smaller torpedo boats since the big guns were too slow and sluggish to destroy them all. So the torpedo boat destroyer was created to deal with this threat. Todays navies aren't any different, you have dedicated missile cruisers with ASMs, SSMs or SAMs to deal with different types of enemies, destroyers hunting submarines, etc. This kind of specialization is mostly absent from Distant Worlds. There is no dedicated PD cruiser, no planet buster full of bombardment weapons. Outside of carrier and troop transport you only have one role: space ship killer. And the best space ship killer is a big battleship with lots of guns and shields, so it only makes sense to build the biggest battleship with the most guns and the most shields.

The problem is in the design system. There isn't much consideration beyond how many shields, guns and engines to pack into your design so the winner is always the ship that packs the most of each, i.e. the biggest ship. Slap on a few PD guns and bombard weapons and your good to go. I've recently dug out Star Ruler again and the way design in that game works is that you always have the same amount of space to cram components in and ship size only determines how effective the components are. So if you put PD on a ship its going to lack in main weaponry capable of penetrating heavy capital ship armor and loose against comparable ships that only have main weapons. But if you only have three huge main guns you might one-shot any individual fighter, but a swarm is still going to overwhelm you. That goes even more so if you want some gimmick weapon like planetary bombs. In Distant Worlds every ship has the same Reactive Armor, the same Titan Beam, the same Meridian Shield, the only difference between a capital ship and an escort is the capital has more of them. Now if capitals and cruisers were limited to mounting Death Rays it would open the way to much more depth in ship design, like a spinal mount frigate, able to mount capital grade weaponry itself and overwhelm a superior battleship through sheer numbers. You'd have to bring something like a cruiser mounting lots of medium weapons to deal with that. As it stands there is only one ship role, the battleship and just lots of differently sized battleships.

(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 15
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/25/2013 7:41:02 PM   
Jorgen_CAB

 

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Personally I'm against arbitrary bonuses or any attempt at simple rock/paper/scissors mechanics.

Ships should be build and used for its merits not for arbitrary bonuses to cover their uses.

In reality if we speak about WWI or WWII you needed different ships for many reasons outside pure combat power. The logistical side are the most important aspect of what and how you can use and/or build ships. Big ships is all good but was not very useful if they had no harbors or maintenance facilities to be stationed at, they also could not be everywhere and the ocean was big, I guess space is even bigger.

Also, in real life, ships is quite vulnerable to attacks... even huge armored fortresses like dreadnoughts and battleships. A few well placed torpedo hits can sink a big ship coming from a small torpedo boat. Sure... most battleships had enough guns to feel safe against them on the open sea (until submarines appeared) but not close to land.

Most games make ships out to be virtual fortresses and it often take hundreds of hits to destroy them. In my opinion this is one of the problems with most games. If weapons acted a little more realistic things would change and keeping escort for carries to keep enemy ships and missiles at bay would be a priority.

Even shields would/should be limited in use in my opinion. On a bigger ship it has to protect a greater area and thus be weaker with the same number of generators. I also think that shields would perhaps be more fun if they absorbed part of the damage but not always all of it. Kind of how rail-guns work but a little different.
Perhaps shield should cost fuel to be powered, thus using them all the time is not an option. That would leave ships vulnerable for a surprise attack.

I feel that it would be more interesting if I needed to assign ships to find the enemy and not just know where everything is when I enter a system. Cloaking system should perhaps turn ships into some sort of space submarines. They could lay an wait and snipe at capital ships and then disappear or use warp inhibitors to trap civilian freighters and miners and destroy them.
Then you would need to build ships to find them and hunt them down etc...

You don't want to risk a big investment like a huge carrier to hunt down a submarine that could destroy it with a few lucky hits.

Automation could take care of things like patrol and deploying raiding cloaked or just small ships. Ships should perhaps be extremely hard to detect while the orbit object, especially in asteroid fields. That way you could spring attack from anywhere there are no scouts or stations deployed to keep an eye out. Being everywhere and know everything would just be an enormous cost and simply put an unrealistic option.

Perhaps loosing a big ship should have a more demoralizing effect on your population, especially in a Democratic society than loosing an equal amount of tonnage in frigates. Even worse when civilian ships is lost and you ignore it.

Details like this will add validity to different designs, just adding arbitrary numbers to force a player to do something does not really change much in my opinion. I have no problem if a Destroyer armed with pea shooters can't put a dent in a capital ship, but if having the right weaponry means they will become a real threat then that is a good mechanic.

I understand that nothing of this is a reality for the current game. But for the next version perhaps they will surprise and offer something different.

< Message edited by Jorgen_CAB -- 11/25/2013 8:49:32 PM >

(in reply to Deathball)
Post #: 16
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/26/2013 2:58:42 AM   
Raap

 

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I'm generally against any arbitrary limits set by the developer, so I'm definitely against hardpoints. It's not that I don't think it can be done well, it's just that I've never had more fun with that system than the one we currently have.

As for ship design in general, that's a tough one. Perhaps the biggest part of the problem is that everything's effective versus everything else. The 'best' weapons are just as effective vs small ships as they are against larger ones. Your shields are just as effective vs small ships' weapons as they are against large ships' weapons. Stuff like that. It also doesn't help that there's generally very little penalty to just building large ships. The extra maintenance cost is easily made up for by the much better survivability and the ability to wipe out more of the enemy at once. The speed difference between small and large ships is relatively small, and it's all kinda rendered moot by the fact that you're generally defending or attacking a relatively stationary object/planet.

I'd propose changing the weapon system, first and foremost. Scratch most of what is there already and add different 'classes' of weapons. Capital-ship killers would be extremely powerful and effective vs large, slow ships, but in turn fired very slowly and/or were difficult/impossible to aim at smaller, nimbler craft. The smaller weapons would be near-useless against large ships' shields, but small ships could in turn equip lighter versions of the capital-ship killers, thus making them a potential threat, at least in numbers. Capital ships could also be equipped with lighter weapons to fight off the smaller craft, but that would in turn make them more vulnerable to other capital ships.

In addition, add artillery. Powerful, very long-range weapons for defeating huge and slow ships at range. Combine this with the removal of jump drive activity in solar systems and slower ship speed(for large ships) and you could end up with situations where you're forced to send your fast and nimble ships to take out the artillery, thus potentially exposing your capital ships to ambushes.

Balance this right and it could definitely make combat a lot more interesting than what we currently have, but without compromising the current ship design system.

My biggest concern would be the AI. It's never been strong in these games(nor is it in most), so introducing complex systems could end up crippling it to an even greater degree. That said, I've never been a fan of games that simplify the gameplay just to give the AI a chance. There are plenty of those games out there already and we don't really need another one; the complexity is definitely what makes DW stand out for me. So I'd rather take my chances, and perhaps have them spend a bigger part of their time and budget on developing the AI than they have previously.

< Message edited by Raap -- 11/26/2013 4:03:10 AM >

(in reply to Jorgen_CAB)
Post #: 17
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/26/2013 3:56:35 PM   
Plant


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Yeah sorry deathball, the forum automatically says you are replying to the last person you are posting to, but I don't like quotes withing quotes within quotes.

Anyhow as for real life, in real life, a weapon hit usually either does nothing, or does catastrophic damage. In distant worlds, shields exists. And there is only one space for combat, space.

< Message edited by Plant -- 11/26/2013 4:58:28 PM >

(in reply to Raap)
Post #: 18
RE: Optimization overhaul of the game. - 11/26/2013 5:11:29 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plant

Yeah sorry deathball, the forum automatically says you are replying to the last person you are posting to, but I don't like quotes withing quotes within quotes.

Anyhow as for real life, in real life, a weapon hit usually either does nothing, or does catastrophic damage. In distant worlds, shields exists. And there is only one space for combat, space.


In real life, up to and shortly after WWII, a ship was very compartmentalized. A hit in an area deemed non-essential to the ship could actually pass right through, since the ship had no armor in that area. Ships were designed with heavy armor around the engines, conning tower, steerage, and magazines. The tower was where the ship was controlled during battle, the other areas made up the armored 'citadel' that would not only protect those vital areas, but in theory would prevent the ship from sinking if it weren't penetrated.

In theory...a raging fire in the non-essential areas could doom a ship just as much as putting several holes in the citadel below the water line....especially if the fire manages to set off the magazines (or av-gas/ordnance stowage on a carrier).

As you pointed out, in DW, the shields and armor are ablative, and work nothing like a dreadnought's armor scheme.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Plant)
Post #: 19
Page:   [1]
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