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Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 2:18:24 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi everyone,

We're going to have an announcement next week about our decision on this. I'm sorry for the additional wait, but wanted to let you know more information is coming.

Regards,

- Erik


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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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Post #: 1
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 3:30:01 PM   
Rekm41


Posts: 561
Joined: 8/8/2004
From: Canada EH!
Status: offline 		What does that mean Eric? Are you going to offer a choice? What about customers that have already purchased?

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Keep Moving and Keep your Head DOWN!!

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 2
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 4:02:54 PM   
Dorb


Posts: 371
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Stay the course Erik. The way it was brought to market was done for a reason. Everyone knows this when they come here to buy it. If they don't they can try and buy something else like it - which there is nothing. They will find away if they want it bad enough. Way to close to launch date to change.

(in reply to Rekm41)
Post #: 3
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 6:19:31 PM   
danimaning2

 

Posts: 40
Joined: 12/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We're going to have an announcement next week about our decision on this. I'm sorry for the additional wait, but wanted to let you know more information is coming.

Regards,

- Erik



A lot of thanks Erik, i see that Matrix listens to his customers.
I am sure that if the only download its avaible, a lot of people buy the game, like me. And the guys that want the book can buy it too.
All the people wins (only Fedex loose)

< Message edited by danimaning -- 11/22/2013 7:31:35 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 6:25:39 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Funny if I had a choice up front, I would have skipped the books. But now that I have them and appreciate them, and did it over again, I'd buy the books. :-)

_____________________________


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Post #: 5
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 6:30:12 PM   
henri51


Posts: 1151
Joined: 1/16/2009
Status: offline 		Me too: if it had been an option, I probably would not have bought the books due to the $45 delivery charge here in Canada, but now I am glad that I have them.

(in reply to jhdeerslayer)
Post #: 6
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 7:16:04 PM   
javimm

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline 		Great to hear about this. I do really want the books, but until there's no european supplier, I won't buy the game (customs+shipping from the US is too high for me to justify buying the game). If european supply never happens, I'll surely buy the download only game.

(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 7
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 10:41:14 PM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline 		I haven't bought MWIF yet, but I still intend to buy the full physical. The rave reviews of the quality of the manuals is compelling and it is a very unique product. I don't know of any other computer wargame that has such high quality hardbound manuals. It helps that my wargame budget is very modest and I seldom buy more than one per year and in some years none at all. This is one that I have been waiting for a long time--a classic boardgame ported over to the computer in a brilliant way.

I sympathize with those who need to have it shipped a long distance and having to pay the very hefty shipping costs. I lucked out in that regard because I live in Portland,OR where they are being shipped from. So to be fair there probably should be a download only option. But then again this is a very special offering for a very special game...

(in reply to javimm)
Post #: 8
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/22/2013 11:28:24 PM   
Dorb


Posts: 371
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		Lascar, hate to sound like the movie folks, - If you only buy one PC game this year about WWII make it...

(in reply to Lascar)
Post #: 9
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 12:56:45 AM   
Lascar


Posts: 489
Joined: 10/7/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb

Lascar, hate to sound like the movie folks, - If you only buy one PC game this year about WWII make it...


Absolutely, it is the definite strategic level WWII game. I played the boardgame version (just solo) more than 20 years ago and enjoyed it but I just couldn't find the physical space to keep it up and going for long, especially with a cat waiting for the opportunity to jump up on the table.

I am originally from Northeast Ohio, came to Oregon 30 years ago, where are you in the Buckeye state?

< Message edited by Lascar -- 11/23/2013 3:48:57 PM >

(in reply to Dorb)
Post #: 10
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 4:28:41 AM   
76mm


Posts: 4688
Joined: 5/2/2004
From: Washington, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb
The way it was brought to market was done for a reason.

Which was?

(in reply to Dorb)
Post #: 11
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:46:24 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb
The way it was brought to market was done for a reason.

Which was?


I subscribe to the theory that ADG set a minimum price for MWiF in order that it would not eat into sales of cardboard WiF. After all, if you could buy computer MWiF for (say) $60 then why would you even consider buying the real thing which cost a lot more for a comparable product? Once the price point was set at $100 then some genius (no sarcasm intended - I think it was a great idea) decided to include the heavyweight manuals in the purchase price to make the deal sweeter. ADG has a perfect right to do this and I fear that Matrix is stuck in the middle between their contract with ADG and a small proportion of the fanbase chanting "We don't want no stinking manuals".

I have no special knowledge in the matter and I could be completely wrong, but it makes perfect sense to me.

I predict that Matrix will soon change the purchase model to Digital Download = $100 but if you tick the box and pay the postage then they will send you a set of beautiful manuals at no extra charge.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 12
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 7:43:54 AM   
Gresbeck

 

Posts: 106
Joined: 7/13/2004
From: Ferrara - Florence
Status: offline
quote:


What about customers that have already purchased?


+ 1. A discount coupon, maybe? After all I paid 111,99 + 31,07 = 143,06 euro = 193 USD. I will try to enter the Guinness, and it could be a satisfaction, but ....

(in reply to Rekm41)
Post #: 13
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 1:16:00 PM   
DSWargamer

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 8/25/2010
Status: offline 		Hmmm while I KNOW what the reply to this will be, the truth is, if they waffle, and then they cave in, and then they offer the download sans books, regardless of price reduction, it will only result in backlash.

They will only change from annoying one batch of people, for annoying a different batch of people. They will still have annoyed people, and they will likely simply not genuinely have solved anything.

Now of course if they want to offer solid statements to the effect, 'we sold enough of the books to reach a predetermined cash goal', or if they state they have renegotiated a deal with ADG to do so, then I suppose it would at least be accomplished with a justification offered.

I don't seriously expect any actual hard fast statements like that of course.

Hell as I see it, it isn't my business ie the company is not my company, and they can make any decisions they wish :) I won't change from liking my books, preferring my books and I won't have any beef with what I paid for my books.

But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice :)

_____________________________

I have too many too complicated wargames, and not enough sufficiently interested non wargamer friends.

(in reply to Gresbeck)
Post #: 14
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 1:24:44 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

Hmmm while I KNOW what the reply to this will be, the truth is, if they waffle, and then they cave in, and then they offer the download sans books, regardless of price reduction, it will only result in backlash.

They will only change from annoying one batch of people, for annoying a different batch of people. They will still have annoyed people, and they will likely simply not genuinely have solved anything.

Now of course if they want to offer solid statements to the effect, 'we sold enough of the books to reach a predetermined cash goal', or if they state they have renegotiated a deal with ADG to do so, then I suppose it would at least be accomplished with a justification offered.

I don't seriously expect any actual hard fast statements like that of course.

Hell as I see it, it isn't my business ie the company is not my company, and they can make any decisions they wish :) I won't change from liking my books, preferring my books and I won't have any beef with what I paid for my books.

But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice :)
warspite1

Well if people are upset then sorry but that's life. Caveat Emptor and all that. How many times have we bought things in life, only to see them on sale a short while after? This (if it happens) is hardly new.

I bought the game as was - I had the choice. I chose to pay what it cost at the time and now (possibly) the cost may come down a few weeks later. Well there will be no moaning from me either. I love the books, I love the game. Honestly, if you told me I would be $57 less by waiting - what? - 3-4 weeks, then I would have paid the $57.

The game is the one I have been waiting for for almost 20 years (since I last played WIF) and 5 years since I knew Matrix were developing the game. The game is amazing, the books are a work of art.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 15
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 1:29:19 PM   
captskillet


Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
Status: offline 		Wasn't too happy at the time but I made a decision and in retrospect I am glad that I did (books are great).........and yes warspite1 stuff going on sale after the fact happens all the time......sh*t happens!

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"Git thar fust with the most men" - Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest


(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 16
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 5:43:31 PM   
icitrom_y

 

Posts: 25
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.

(in reply to captskillet)
Post #: 17
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 5:56:02 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.
warspite1

Great stories.... go tell readers digest.....


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to icitrom_y)
Post #: 18
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:13:38 PM   
Talon_XBMCX


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline 		I purchased WitP because AE was to be an add on ... then Matrix changed and made it stand alone a few weeks later. At pennies per hour for cost, I think I got (and continue to receive) great value.




(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 19
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:15:19 PM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.
warspite1

Great stories.... go tell readers digest.....



if youre happy with your purchase, dont care what anyone else does - why are you so bitter?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 20
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:15:45 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice :)


What is this nonsense about you're right to have an opinion? If things keep going like this then soon you'll be demanding the right to vote and who knows where that will lead? In my day we didn't put up with this kind of faddle - we'd just go off and invade some unknown African country and get Kipling to publish a few more poems and then the country would fall back into line the way it was always meant to be. I remember back in 1873 when I faced the Mad Mahdi in Khartoum ... or was that 1893 ... No! it was the Zulus down in someplace hot... I had my guns lined up on the ridge just before dawn ...

<VOICE FADES OFF INTO UNINTELLIGIBLE BLATHERINGS - CUT TO COMMERCIAL>


_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to DSWargamer)
Post #: 21
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:32:31 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline

The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.



_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 22
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 6:37:40 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.
warspite1

Great stories.... go tell readers digest.....



if youre happy with your purchase, dont care what anyone else does - why are you so bitter?
warspite1

I think you will see from my posts that I am not generally bitter, and with a couple of extreme exceptions I do not lose my rag with anyone. But I am just so freaking fed up with the same old stuff going round and round and round and on sooo many different threads - how many now??

Hey, I know, here's a novel idea - why not talk about the game for a change?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 23
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 8:02:45 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.




I will be happy with the books even if I could have paid less by waiting until a download only version was available. So there is at least one person that would have bought the books regardless if a DL only version was available or not.

And guess what? I will still think the books are great because they ARE great.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 24
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 8:12:08 PM   
Dorb


Posts: 371
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Ohio
Status: offline 		I guess if you sell it to the folks crying all the time - for the same price as with the books... then I have no problem. If you sell it cheaper - I will be crying post after post as they were! (until you give in - again. lol)


(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 25
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 9:19:49 PM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution.

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing **** about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the **** this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!


_____________________________

Alba gu' brath

(in reply to Dorb)
Post #: 26
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 9:35:25 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well if people are upset then sorry but that's life. Caveat Emptor and all that. How many times have we bought things in life, only to see them on sale a short while after? This (if it happens) is hardly new.

I bought the game as was - I had the choice. I chose to pay what it cost at the time and now (possibly) the cost may come down a few weeks later. Well there will be no moaning from me either. I love the books, I love the game. Honestly, if you told me I would be $57 less by waiting - what? - 3-4 weeks, then I would have paid the $57.

The game is the one I have been waiting for for almost 20 years (since I last played WIF) and 5 years since I knew Matrix were developing the game. The game is amazing, the books are a work of art.



Amen Brother, too many have fallen since this thing was started.

It was time for release.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 27
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 9:45:45 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution.

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing **** about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the **** this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!

warspite1

Here we go....

a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much.

b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved.

But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something.

Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 11/23/2013 10:49:12 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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Post #: 28
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 9:54:15 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.




And who might those worthless people with worthless opinions be? Who are you referring to?

Bo


< Message edited by bo -- 11/23/2013 10:59:33 PM >

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 29
RE: Download vs. Physical Option - 11/23/2013 9:56:44 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline 		This type of trollish behavior is always seen as a sign that a game is growing in popularity.

First Middle-Earth (erm, New Zealand), and then we will conquer World of Warcraft!

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 30
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