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Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers

 
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Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 3:55:36 PM   
DoctorHaider

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/27/2013
Status: offline 		It seems that all Kiev class carriers in the game have too small airgroups limited up to 20 aircrafts.

The standard airgroup on Kiev and Minsk was 22 aircrafts according the design (36 with crowded hangar) and 36 aircrafts on Novorossysk and Baku.

Also all these carriers have only one elevator in the game instead real two.








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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 4:01:09 PM   
DoctorHaider

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/27/2013
Status: offline 		The source:

S.A. Balakin, V.P. Zabolotsky
Avianesuchie kreisera admirala Gorshkova. Aviation cruisers of admiral Gorshkov.
Moscow, Yauza, EKSMO, 2007.






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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 5:48:33 PM   
Russian Heel


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Metro Station Vasileostrovskaya
Status: offline 		Slightly different info, but much more than 20 and the original project was for 36




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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 5:49:55 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Marines & Forces Navales no. 147 confirms that the former Baku - now in Indian hands - carries 17 in the hangar and 19 on deck.

Jane's 1978-79 estimates 30-35 aircraft and confirms 2 elevators.

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"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to DoctorHaider)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 6:03:20 PM   
Russian Heel


Posts: 231
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From: Metro Station Vasileostrovskaya
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 6:41:52 PM   
thewood1

 

Posts: 6529
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Status: offline 		But what did they carry operationally?

(in reply to Russian Heel)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 6:47:41 PM   
severe7


Posts: 78
Joined: 10/14/2013
Status: offline 		I don't understand russian but out of curiosity, when it says aircraft does that mean fixed-wing/airplanes or anything that flies(helicopters + fixed-wing)?
Question 2: The number 36, is that with parking on the top or using hangar only?

(in reply to Russian Heel)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 6:59:39 PM   
El Savior

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		My source says:

approx 36 aircraft
12 Yak-36 Forger VTOL
up to 24 Ka-25 Hormone

Source: Guide to Soviet Navy By Norman Polmar 1983 edition

Anther source says:
22 Yak-38 and 16 Ka-25/Ka-27 (normal load 12 Yak-38 and 17 Ka-25/Ka-27).

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El Savior

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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 7:10:27 PM   
Russian Heel


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Metro Station Vasileostrovskaya
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: severe7

I don't understand russian but out of curiosity, when it says aircraft does that mean fixed-wing/airplanes or anything that flies(helicopters + fixed-wing)?
Question 2: The number 36, is that with parking on the top or using hangar only?

Hanger and deck space but operationally 32 A/C (12 fixed-wing/ 18/2 rotary wing) according to this book published in 2003.

(in reply to severe7)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 8:07:57 PM   
smudge56

 

Posts: 667
Joined: 1/17/2009
From: UK
Status: offline 		What do your magazines say

(in reply to Russian Heel)
Post #: 10
RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/24/2013 8:14:00 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		The one in Indian service now carries 16 Mig 29s.

In Jane's 78-79 they are said to carry Yak-38s and Hormones indeed but they also mention and list pictures of these carriers with Floggers.

_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to smudge56)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/25/2013 8:41:21 AM   
Russian Heel


Posts: 231
Joined: 10/8/2013
From: Metro Station Vasileostrovskaya
Status: offline 		Not that I don't trust Jane's, but information about Soviet equipment printed in 1979(or any in the Cold War really)should be cross-referenced with more contemporary publications. Simply because of the nature of the times. Especially when looking at the more recently fielded systems. Jane's 1981-1982 makes no mention of Floggers on the Kievs but does hypothesize about Su-24s and MiG-23s being developed for an as yet unnamed Soviet CVN.

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/25/2013 4:28:32 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		And I misread. Jane's said Forger, not Flogger...

_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to Russian Heel)
Post #: 13
RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/25/2013 10:43:32 PM   
Broncepulido

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 9/26/2013
Status: offline 		More data here: http://russian-ships.info/eng/warships/project_1143.htm

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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/26/2013 12:07:56 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you for your feedback on this guys

So how many aircraft fits in the hangar for Kiev and Novorossiys? 20-22? And on the flight deck? 10-12?



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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to Broncepulido)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/26/2013 3:08:43 PM   
mrfeizhu


Posts: 131
Joined: 10/13/2013
Status: offline 		they Y-38s are small plane compared to a Su 27 and the Hormones are small helicopters. The length of the hanger deck does not run the length of the ship. I have seen the Minsk a few times in Shenzhen, you can see the whole ship from the hanger deck up. They have a Su 27 in the hanger bay and its huge. Its a big ship but the flight deck seems small. Its interesting to see a Soviet ship.

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Old man sort of living in China for the last 10 years

(in reply to ComDev)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/27/2013 8:53:35 PM   
Broncepulido

 

Posts: 385
Joined: 9/26/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Thank you for your feedback on this guys

So how many aircraft fits in the hangar for Kiev and Novorossiys? 20-22? And on the flight deck? 10-12?



In the Russian book about the Su-33 I think it's the hangar capacity, I will see ...


(in reply to ComDev)
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RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/27/2013 9:24:45 PM   
Broncepulido

 

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Status: offline 		[image]http://www.flickr.com/photos/109988552@N04/[/image]

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Post #: 18
RE: Too few aircrafts on all Kiev class carriers - 11/28/2013 4:09:03 AM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks guys, have updated the Kiev-class with 22 planes in the hangar and 14 on deck

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

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