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Got My Books Today - 11/26/2013 8:47:34 PM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline 		FedEx delivered my books today. They are quite nice but if I had the choice, I would have purchased without the books. I just don't see the sense in having hardbound books for a computer game that may be obsolete within 5 to 10 years. I guess it's okay if you own the boardgame but I don't and probably never will. The books are of very good quality and I could see doing something like this for the boardgame. Just not a computer game. PDF files can be updated as things change. The info in these hardbound books will never change. If the info is wrong, misprinted or whatever it's there for good. Not trying to start a flamewar or pour salt into an old wound. Just giving my opinion. Your mileage may vary.
Post #: 1
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/26/2013 10:48:59 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

FedEx delivered my books today. They are quite nice but if I had the choice, I would have purchased without the books. I just don't see the sense in having hardbound books for a computer game that may be obsolete within 5 to 10 years. I guess it's okay if you own the boardgame but I don't and probably never will. The books are of very good quality and I could see doing something like this for the boardgame. Just not a computer game. PDF files can be updated as things change. The info in these hardbound books will never change. If the info is wrong, misprinted or whatever it's there for good. Not trying to start a flamewar or pour salt into an old wound. Just giving my opinion. Your mileage may vary.



The flamewar is over I hope I have mixed feelings about this, I have beta tested for 2 years so I had the files for quite awhile, not the finished product of course, a few months ago I had the finshed product. Positive side- I do not like reading from a computer screen which I have had to do many times, I tend to get very sleepy, of course thats my own problem not yours, I like to read in a lounging chair where I am more comfortable and these books provide that for me.

Actually I do not need the books I learned the game from osmosis [mistake after mistake] I believe they do the game justice with the way they are laid out. I would say 90% of the people who purchased the game like the books. Obsolete 5 to 10 years from now. Hmmm not sure I can agree with that one, There is many games that Matrix and Battlefront have sold that became obsolete in less than a year, so I will be happy with the 5 to 10 comment.

Negative- If I lived overseas from the United States I personally would not be happy with the horrible delivery charges, actually Fedex took 8 days to deliver to me on the east coast from Oregon, pony express could do it 5 days, I feel the majority of complaints about physical compared to plain download [no books] was strictly a money issue, nor can I blame anyone for those feelings. I have some other feelings about the issue but I will stay mum for awhile and hopefully some of the bad feelings by a few posters will have subsided by then. Hopefully

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/27/2013 12:49:11 AM >

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 2
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/26/2013 10:50:41 PM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline 		I got my books today and I will say they are a very nice quality. Value, etc., is in the eye of the beholder.

_____________________________


(in reply to bo)
Post #: 3
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 1:58:03 AM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

FedEx delivered my books today. They are quite nice but if I had the choice, I would have purchased without the books. I just don't see the sense in having hardbound books for a computer game that may be obsolete within 5 to 10 years. I guess it's okay if you own the boardgame but I don't and probably never will. The books are of very good quality and I could see doing something like this for the boardgame. Just not a computer game. PDF files can be updated as things change. The info in these hardbound books will never change. If the info is wrong, misprinted or whatever it's there for good. Not trying to start a flamewar or pour salt into an old wound. Just giving my opinion. Your mileage may vary.


I agree with several of your points, as an experience gamer of this system, I often immediatly recognize if something is not right with the program.

The books are only there to inform me of changes. As time goes on their relevance will decrease dramatically.

I would have been happy to get some charts, but I still have one in storage...

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 4
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 7:15:40 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Personally I love the books... if one views the games itself as worth the purchase price (as I do) then I received the books for the cost of the Fedex charge = $47? to Australia. Something to read on the bus or the train. An ereader just doesn't compare. Unfortunately they are being wrapped as a Christmas present from my two children so I can't read them yet

YMMV

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Zorachus99)
Post #: 5
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 3:47:33 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

Personally I love the books... if one views the games itself as worth the purchase price (as I do) then I received the books for the cost of the Fedex charge = $47? to Australia. Something to read on the bus or the train. An ereader just doesn't compare. Unfortunately they are being wrapped as a Christmas present from my two children so I can't read them yet

YMMV


They will make good reading Grey when you have to be inside your home while the blizzard is raging outside in the city of Sydney

Bo

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 6
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 7:30:23 PM   
Zorachus99


Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

Personally I love the books... if one views the games itself as worth the purchase price (as I do) then I received the books for the cost of the Fedex charge = $47? to Australia. Something to read on the bus or the train. An ereader just doesn't compare. Unfortunately they are being wrapped as a Christmas present from my two children so I can't read them yet

YMMV


I'm suffering the same problem. :)

Christmas will be a happy day this year I think.

I finally got what I wanted!!!

Steve is awesome.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 7
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 8:07:36 PM   
ADMR Rampage


Posts: 5
Joined: 1/15/2010
Status: offline 		I am not the type to normally respond to post on forums, but I take exception this time. Has anyone that has complained about MWIF because Matrix didn't give you the option of ordering the game without the books, ever taken the time to go to the ADG website and check out the cost of WIF plus the cost of the add-ons/accessories (Convoys in Flames, Crusiers in Flames, etc.)? If not please go and check it out for yourself. To order just Classic WIF with Convoys in Flames and Cruisers in Flames, it will set you back over $200.00 and the rules are on paper (BTW Shipping is included in the ADG price)! Even with the most expensive shipping charge added to MWIF's the price is still considerably below $200.00. Now compare what is included with MWIF and you'll see that even with shipping charges, you have the best deal for your money delivered to your door. If matrix didn't publish the manuals as they have with the Command OP series, I'm sure most that have complained would be complaining about that as well. If you don't want the game as presented by the developer, then don't buy it!

You have the Best of the Best in your hands bar none, so stop the belly aching and be thankful MWIF has finally been published and enjoy the game. Enuf said!

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 8
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/27/2013 9:10:04 PM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline 		The prices of the board game are irrelevant to me. I'll probably never own or play the board game. It's comparing apples to oranges. MWiF is a good game and I'm glad I bought it. The books are of good quality and very nice. But I think it's a little over the top to require the books as part of the computer game purchase. They should have been offered as an optional purchase just like the maps. Hardbound books for the board game I can see. But for a computer game that may have a life expectancy of no more than 5 to 10 years, I think it's a little too much. I doubt very seriously if anyone is going to be playing MWiF 25 years from now. With board games you can put them on the shelf, forget about them for 25 years and they are still just as playable 25 years later. The same with books. Read a book now and you can read it again years later.

The so-called Best of the Best is actually the board game which will hold value. The digital equivalent, MWiF, is only going to hold value for a very brief period of time. That's why I believe strategy guides, game guides or in this case the books are over the top. I can understand why some people would want them but please explain what value they are going to be for me when I can no long play MWiF. The books should have been optional just like the rules you play with.

Just an FYI. For me this wasn't about the shipping cost or the high purchase price. I was perfectly willing to pay $99 just for the digital download because the subject interested me. But I will say that if the current Slitherine/Matrix trend continues of selling computer games for board game prices, I think it may be in my best interest to revert back to mainly buying board games since they hold more value for a longer period of time.

(in reply to ADMR Rampage)
Post #: 9
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 4:37:01 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

Personally I love the books... if one views the games itself as worth the purchase price (as I do) then I received the books for the cost of the Fedex charge = $47? to Australia. Something to read on the bus or the train. An ereader just doesn't compare. Unfortunately they are being wrapped as a Christmas present from my two children so I can't read them yet

YMMV


They will make good reading Grey when you have to be inside your home while the blizzard is raging outside in the city of Sydney

Bo

Not terribly likely given that it's usually effing hot in Sydney at Christmas time

I once had a conversation with a lady in Los Angeles in August where I stated that I was feeling a bit hot because I'd just arrived from winter in Australia. She looked dumbfounded.

Lady: "But how? It's Summer"

Me: "You do realise the Earth is a planet, right? Its axis of rotation is tilted at about 23.5 degrees so we have seasons. When you have summer, we have winter."

Lady: "But August is summertime?"

Me: "Yes. It is here but not in the Southern Hemisphere. It's all to do with the angle at which the Sun's energy strikes the Earth's surface. It's hot at Christmas time in Australia."

Lady: "Wow! That must be really weird?"

Me: "Not for us. We're kind of used to it."

etc etc

A lot of people here have "Christmas in July" and have all the traditional European food then but more and more Christmas lunch is seafood, breads and salad. Then you might go to the beach or the cricket, possibly wearing a Santa hat

Cheers, Neilster


< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/28/2013 5:37:35 AM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 10
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 4:54:51 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline 		You'd have really blown her mind if you'd told her which direction the water in the bowl spirals.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 11
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 5:30:54 AM   
AxelNL


Posts: 2386
Joined: 9/24/2011
From: The Netherlands
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You'd have really blown her mind if you'd told her which direction the water in the bowl spirals.


Coriolis effect might be a tad difficult in this case, telling her he stands upside down compared to her normally is probably enough for her to decide that all foreigners are weird people.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 12
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 2:55:50 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline 		You people make my day I love the back and forth, errr Neilster something has always bothered, well at least to I know now where you come from, how does Santa Claus get to Tasmania?

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 11/28/2013 3:56:44 PM >

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 13
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 4:06:54 PM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		That magic sleigh I guess.

I was a pretty inquisitive kid and when I was about five I looked at an "official" picture of Santa Claus in one of my books and I realised that his sack wasn't even big enough for our own family's presents. I was also pretty suspicious of this "visits every house in the world in one night" thing, and why didn't poor people get good Christmas presents like we got?

I confronted my dad with this and his evasive answers only fuelled my suspicion so I pestered my older brother until he he admitted that mum and dad bought our presents. I wasn't allowed to tell my little brother but a couple of years later I got sick of that and told him anyway.

My nephew got kicked out of pre-school for telling all the other kids that Santa didn't exist

Cheers, Neilster

p.s. We're not a family of killjoys. We recently revived a family tradition where "Santa" rings young members of the family to ask them if they've been good and to tell them that he knows where to deliver their presents. This is another nephew Liam on such a call (from Uncle Tim, doing a hokey Santa impersonation). To him, it was essentially the equivalent of getting a phone call from Yahweh...actually, much more important than that





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/29/2013 2:33:08 AM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 14
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 5:54:26 PM   
Centuur


Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline 		OMG. Look at those trousers...

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 15
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 7:27:00 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster

That magic sleigh I guess.

I was a pretty inquisitive kid and when I was about five I looked at an "official" picture of Santa Claus in one of my books and I realised that his sack wasn't even big enough for our own family's presents. I was also pretty suspicious of this "visits every house in the world in one night" thing, and why didn't poor people get good Christmas presents like we got?

I confronted my dad with this and his evasive answers only fuelled my suspicion so I pestered my older brother until he he admitted that mum and dad bought our presents. I wasn't allowed to tell my little brother but a couple of years later I got sick of that and told him anyway.

My nephew got kicked out of pre-school for telling all the other kids that Santa didn't exist

Cheers, Neilster

p.s. We're not a family of killjoys. We recently revived a family tradition where "Santa" rings young members of the family to ask them if they've been good and to tell them that he knows where to deliver their presents. This is another nephew Liam on such a call (from Uncle Tim, doing a hokey Santa impersonation). To him, it was essentially the equivalent of getting a phone call from Yaweh...actually, much more important than that







Cool story, does it ever snow in Tasmania or Austraila? Like maybe very high mountains with a snow cap during a certain time of the year.

Bo

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 16
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/28/2013 7:29:00 PM   
bo

 

Posts: 4176
Joined: 5/1/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

OMG. Look at those trousers...


I am dumbfounded Peter I though Neilster was older that that, oh well!

Bo

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 17
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/29/2013 1:31:35 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		They're pyjamas. Due to the time difference between Santa's workshop and Tasmanian Summer Time the big guy had to ring early.

Believe it or not, Australia has bigger snowfields than Switzerland. They are located in the South East of the continent in the Great Dividing Range and in Tasmania and are very popular. My oldest brother and his boys are excellent skiers. Our mountains top out at 2228 metres though, so if you want that genuine deep powder experience, you have to go overseas.

Hobart is about as far south as you can get in Oz and it does snow here at sea level occasionally. 20 years ago it was more common but I think global warming is putting paid to that because it is getting less and less frequent. Mt Wellington, behind the city (1270m), used to be snow-capped for much of the winter but that is changing too. It still gets the occasional big dump though. Incidentally, the Wellington Range is why Hobart is a mountain hex in MWiF. There was a road to the top of Mount Wellington in 1939, meaning that artillery could be emplaced there to dominate the Derwent Estuary and its major port.

Below is an Aussie ski-field.

Cheers, Neilster




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Neilster -- 11/29/2013 2:34:24 AM >

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 18
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/29/2013 1:33:59 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline 		Received the Manuals and disk, delivered to the UK on the third day after order (that's quick), no additional charges (that's good). Wouldn't have ordered a physical copy normally, but now I have them it will be a good read.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 19
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/29/2013 1:42:32 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Received the Manuals and disk, delivered to the UK on the third day after order (that's quick), no additional charges (that's good). Wouldn't have ordered a physical copy normally, but now I have them it will be a good read.
warspite1

Expect a bill from FedEx for £15.44 in the next few days.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 20
RE: Got My Books Today - 11/29/2013 3:38:55 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
Received the Manuals and disk, delivered to the UK on the third day after order (that's quick), no additional charges (that's good). Wouldn't have ordered a physical copy normally, but now I have them it will be a good read.
warspite1
Expect a bill from FedEx for £15.44 in the next few days.

Ouch !


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/29/2013 4:40:18 PM >

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 21
RE: Got My Books Today - 1/22/2014 10:28:47 AM   
Coeur de livre

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 2/7/2006
Status: offline 		Apologies for re-opening an old thread but I have received the books a few days ago and just spent many pleasant hours reading them. This was clearly a labour of love and I am very glad it was done. They are fantastic and worthy of the great game they support and provide the gold standard for other games. Many thanks to Steven and everyone involved.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 22
RE: Got My Books Today - 1/22/2014 6:04:33 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Coeur de livre

Apologies for re-opening an old thread but I have received the books a few days ago and just spent many pleasant hours reading them. This was clearly a labour of love and I am very glad it was done. They are fantastic and worthy of the great game they support and provide the gold standard for other games. Many thanks to Steven and everyone involved.


+1


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy. - Michael Burleigh


(in reply to Coeur de livre)
Post #: 23
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