ComDev
Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: apd1004
I have an issue with the ZSU-23-4 in the database, and the GUN DISH radar as well. As far as I know, it is the same entry in DB3K as CWDB (maybe different entry #?).
In DB3K the GUN DISH radar is listed as an onboard sensor on the ZSU-23-4 (#908) under the mounts/stores/weapons listing, but GUN DISH also has a separate listing as a "mobile vehicle" (#1248). After much research I have found no references of the GUN DISH being used or mounted anywhere other than on a ZSU-23-4. As far as I can tell, the GUN DISH radar was the fire control radar for the ZSU-23-4 exclusively and it was also capable of search and acquisition and had a 20km range.
Thanks, whacked the standalone radar.
quote:
I have done some testing and discovered that the vanilla ZSU-23-4 when firing at a target has only a 5% base probability of hit. Compare this to the M163 VADS which has a 70% base probability to hit. The M163 VADS had a range-only radar not tied to the fire control system like the GUN DISH is on the ZSU-23-4. True, the M163 is a rotary cannon with 3000rpm, but the ZSU-23-4 had four 23mm liquid cooled cannons capable of 800-1000rpm on each gun, so as far as sustained rate of fire the ZSU-23-4 can actually put more lead downrange than the Vulcan, so RPM should not be a differentiating factor between the two systems. The ZSU-23-4 used the GUN DISH to provide a firing solution to the ballistic computer which would then lay the powered & stabilized turret and guns to provide automatic lead for the gunner. In short, I think the ZSU-23-4 base probability of hit is way too low and the M163 is way too high. They should probably both be somewhere in the 30-50% range, with the ZSU being in the upper zone and the Vulcan being in the lower zone of that percentage spread.
Good point. Have given the Vulcan a 30% PoK and ZSU-23 a 50% PoK. Have updated other, similar systems accordingly.
quote:
During the same tests I also discovered that the vanilla ZSU-23-4 was not detecting aircraft with anything other than Mk1 Eyeball and gave off no radar signature, even with the GUN DISH active. The M163 does give off a radar signature and does not detect aircraft, which is appropriate for a range-only radar.
Fixed, thanks!
quote:
When placing a stand-alone GUN DISH, it behaves the way I would expect the one mounted on the ZSU-23-4 to behave, and that is it has a 10nm (should be 12nm) air radar circle and it does detect aircraft and gives off a radar signature. When I removed the internal GUN DISH sensor from the ZSU-23-4 and added the standalone version, I got the ZSU-23-4 that I wanted to see except that the PH was still 5%.
I also believe that the gun range on the ZSU-23-4 is a bit short as is the M163 Vulcan. My references show ZSU-23-4 having a tactical AA range of 2500m (1.35nm) and the Vulcan at 2000m (1.07nm). I would be ok with 1.2nm for the ZSU and 1.0nm for the Vulcan. It should also be able to be used against ground targets.
1.35nm effective range for the ZSU-23-4? Hm... I'm not too sure, the effective range for AAA is pretty short.
quote:
I'm also wondering about manually aimed AA guns having a base PH of 1%, but that will require more testing and can be in another thread. I just don't agree that a ZU-23 towed AA gun only has a 1% chance to hit a UH-1 Huey flying straight and level.
Yes the model probably needs to be refined a bit. What do you think the PoK for different target types should be?
quote:
Summary of proposed changes:
-Remove #1248 (GUN DISH radar) from DB3K as a standalone unit
-Install the sensor data from #1248 onto the ZSU-23-4 (#908) i.e. - put the GUN DISH on the ZSU so that it actually works right
-Increase range on all Soviet 23mm AA guns (ZU-23 and ZSU-23-4) to 1.2nm
-Increase range of GUN DISH radar to 12nm.
-Increase 23mm ZSU-23-4 burst base PH to 50% (#1844)
-Decrease 20mm/85 Vulcan burst base PH from 70% to 30% (#1836)
-Increase range of 20mm/85 Vulcan to 1nm
-Allow both weapons to engage ground targets
All done except gun range increase. Also gave the Gun Dish its full 50km search range, 27nm.
quote:
Cheers
SOURCES:
Anti-aircraft ZSU-23-4 Shilka (Translated from Russian). Accessed November 11, 2013. armyinrussian.narod.ru/suhoputnie/shilka.htm
FM 100-2-3. Washington D.C.: Headquarters, Department of the Army, 1991
< Message edited by emsoy -- 12/1/2013 2:22:26 PM >
_____________________________
 Developer " Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!
|
Printable Version
RE: Thread for DB3000 database problems, updates or issues - 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread