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Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11---Saper welcome

 
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Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11---Saper welcome - 12/4/2013 1:08:28 PM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		I asked Saper to play a campaign and this is what he offered and I accepted: Non - random weather, HQ Lock (for Germany), Full FoW, old rule for first winter, VC260, 1.07.11version.
I have never played the old Blizzard so I agree to it, given Saper is a much experienced player than me, it is an honor for me to play with him and I view it as a learning process.
I just received Saper’s T3, a fascinated turn and I am facing a crisis. I am not sure if I could overcome it so it is the perfect timing to begin a AAR to record this game. I read the great AAR by Kamil recording his epic campaign against Saper, which is amazing, now I am witnessing the magic Saper are capable to do in our game. That is great. I hope I could beat it.
This AAR would be updated later after the game process a bit more.
Saper is welcome and I hope he could provide some comments or join the discussion in this AAR. The update would be several turns lagging of the real action.

< Message edited by mktours -- 12/6/2013 1:23:32 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/4/2013 3:51:06 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Well, I am glad to see this matchup as it promises to be a very competitive game, for once. Have no idea how this will turn out, which is a good thing, although I think Sapper has more cheese under his belt than you.

Watch out for how he uses the Red Air force in particular. He really knows to abuse the air game and leverage the numerical superiority of the Red Air force. If you're not careful, the Luftwaffe will be wrecked by the end of 1942 and endless bombing spam will win the game for him. That's just one of his more appalling tricks, there are others.

Oops, never mind, he is playing the Axis and you the Soviets. I wish it had been the other way around, tbh. Sapper is equally nasty playing either side, whereas I have no idea how well you play the Soviets, but am confident about your ability to drive the Wehrmacht.



< Message edited by Flaviusx -- 12/4/2013 5:08:03 PM >

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/4/2013 4:00:26 PM   
SigUp

 

Posts: 1062
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Status: offline 		Flav, Sapper is playing the Germans.

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/4/2013 4:01:40 PM   
Flaviusx


Posts: 7750
Joined: 9/9/2009
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SigUp

Flav, Sapper is playing the Germans.


Yes, I had a brainfart.

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/4/2013 4:54:40 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		You're teasing us, post a map or two. Saper222's opening moves are critical to the success of his strategy, posting after they are over means we miss the most important part. It's like a movie of Titanic which starts after the ship has sunk and everyone is back on land.

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/4/2013 6:32:47 PM   
A game


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

You're teasing us, post a map or two. Saper222's opening moves are critical to the success of his strategy, posting after they are over means we miss the most important part. It's like a movie of Titanic which starts after the ship has sunk and everyone is back on land.


I second this! The opening moves are so important!

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/5/2013 3:06:48 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		@Tom@Agame,
Thanks for following this AAR. It would be a turn by turn report so you will see the opening.
I work in day time in week days, so could only do the game and AAR in my leisure time.
I have a difficult turn to do and don't want to let Saper waiting, so the AAR have to wait.

(in reply to A game)
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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:33:27 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T1 north before action
Saper tried to encircled as much troops as he can in the north, he took Riga by 56pz and sent 41pz towards the east.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:36:42 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		T1 center before Sov action
A normal Minsk pocket, Saper chose to reserve some attacks.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:41:53 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		T1 south before SHC action
A extended Lvov pocket with 2 Pz corps borrowed from 2 PzG, Saper reserved some MP of his Pzs and used some regiments to defend, as a result, 3 key position(circled) in clear hexes were to be counter attacked and all his pz spearhead were to be cut off.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:50:30 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		battle1
After 4 rounds of bombing, a motorize div on clear hex was beat by 13th tank div and 2 good rifle divs.



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< Message edited by mktours -- 12/6/2013 11:54:50 AM >

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:58:32 AM   
Wuffer

 

Posts: 402
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Status: offline 		very interested to follow this one...

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 10:59:15 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		battle2
A Pz regiment could not hold off the attack of 2 tank divs and 1 mech div. 53 AFV Vs 834 AFV.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 11:03:14 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		battle3
A motorize div in clear hex is very vulnerable to attack, and a regiment of it is even more vulnerable.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 11:13:45 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T1 south
All the pocket were broken. Many German Pzs were cut off. I thought I have given Saper a difficult T2 to do, but he show how good he is in T2 and surprise me. Indeed, I thought we surprised each other by each turn, And I am anxious waiting his T4 at this moment. I have my mistakes to made and was facing a crisis in T3.




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< Message edited by mktours -- 12/6/2013 1:01:20 PM >

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 11:17:38 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		T1 south front
I used rail to move the troops out of to be pocket, some could not escape as they are locked and hit by low Mp.




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 11:22:58 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
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Status: offline 		T1 north-center
normal deployment




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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 11:27:50 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		Wuffer,
Thank you.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

very interested to follow this one...


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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 12:56:10 PM   
Bozo_the_Clown


Posts: 890
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From: Bozotown
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quote:

A Pz regiment could not hold off the attack of 2 tank divs and 1 mech div. 53 AFV Vs 834 AFV.


In one of my recent games I also opened the Lvov pocket in two places which caused my opponent to quit the game immediately. Experienced players like saper222 obviously will use it to their advantage. Knowing what you know now, would you still attempt to break the Lvov pocket on T1 or would you just retreat and use 16th army somewhere else? Basically, is there any point in breaking the Lvov pocket against a very experienced player?

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Post #: 19
RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 1:22:41 PM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		Bozo,
In my case, I only use one Motorize div from outside to open the pocket, the counter-attacks are made by units inside after the pocket has been open. These troops are doomed, they could not escape in T2. The counter attacks is making his T2 difficult but he overcome the difficulty.
As for opening pockets, it depends on situation. There is not standard answers.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

quote:

A Pz regiment could not hold off the attack of 2 tank divs and 1 mech div. 53 AFV Vs 834 AFV.


In one of my recent games I also opened the Lvov pocket in two places which caused my opponent to quit the game immediately. Experienced players like saper222 obviously will use it to their advantage. Knowing what you know now, would you still attempt to break the Lvov pocket on T1 or would you just retreat and use 16th army somewhere else? Basically, is there any point in breaking the Lvov pocket against a very experienced player?

(in reply to Bozo_the_Clown)
Post #: 20
RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 2:04:58 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		It's always possible to break the T1 pocket, and you do not need more than one unit from the outside. If you look at my AAR the T1 pockets are very similar, Saper222's pocket in our game was a little bit stronger, but still easy to break. It's the Soviet reaction T1 and the T2 German play that are important. I'm looking forward to seeing the T2 in the south map.

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/6/2013 5:07:30 PM   
swkuh

 

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline 		Very interesting AAR... well reported & assessed.

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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/10/2013 11:09:18 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		rrbill, Thank you!
quote:

ORIGINAL: rrbill

Very interesting AAR... well reported & assessed.


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RE: Saper222(Ger)VsMktours(Sov)1.07.11 - 12/10/2013 11:17:49 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		Sorry for slowing in update.
Before updating the T2, a brief summary of the situation in the real action:
In T3, the SHC was facing a local crisis and it had been successfully dealt with. In T5 there was a dramatic event in the south, the result is not clear yet, all depends on how Saper handle the situation there in his T6. Very interesting game.

< Message edited by mktours -- 12/10/2013 12:20:12 PM >

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T2 - 12/10/2013 11:33:38 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T2 north before action
Perhaps because of my heavily reinforced deployment in the Pskov region, Saper didn't try to cross the river in T2. Instead, he chose to encircle the routed troops and HQs.




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RE: T2 - 12/10/2013 11:42:06 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T2 center before action
Saper made a hasty assault at the land bridge with 39 Pz, while 57 Pz was attacking alone the north bank.




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RE: T2 - 12/10/2013 11:47:52 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T2 south before action
Saper re-sealed all the pockets.





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RE: T2 - 12/10/2013 11:59:39 AM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		This was the deployment of 16A at the end of my T1. Saper did a delicate sequence of attack to herd them all into the pocket again in his T2. The good news on my side is he had burn a lot of Mps of his Pzs there.
Saper has a very determined mind, he aims for his goal regardless of cost, like Zhukov.




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RE: T2 - 12/10/2013 12:09:50 PM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T2 north SHC action
I ZOC locked the HQ of 41Pz.





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RE: T2 - 12/10/2013 12:18:46 PM   
mktours

 

Posts: 712
Joined: 5/25/2013
Status: offline 		T2 center SHC action
I made 2 successful counter attacks to drive back 7th Pz div and 20th Motorize div at the land bridge.




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