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Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/3/2013 10:22:17 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
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My one big beef with Marinacci's first computer version of World in Flames was that the convoying of resources and build points was rather difficult. I read many months ago how Steve was fixing up this problem for MWiF and I was really glad to read that good news.

However I'm not real impressed with the improvements. I just put in a bug report about Japan not sending the build point to the USA like it should automatically to start the Global War scenario, despite me having the one unused convoy point in the 5 sea areas by Japan and the USA. I'm having trouble trying to force Japan to send a production build point to the USA on the second turn. I now have to try saving a Japanese build point to see if after it's saved on the map I can send it to the USA. I sure hope this problem gets fixed soon so we can start Global War and not have to sweat out getting the Japanese build point to the USA. The good thing is that the program isn't enforcing a penalty. It looks like all the other pre-war trade agreements are working properly.

My other complaint is that the program is using the convoy points from other countries, thus screwing them out of getting to use them. I set up a convoy chain from Hanoi to the south of France and somehow the British are now using several of the convoy points instead of their own. It becomes very difficult to track down which convoy is abusing the French convoy points. A real shame that we don't get asked beforehand if some other country is willing to allow a different country to use their convoy points. It sure would have been nice if as France I could have said no to Britain using convoy points along that line so I could have known how many convoy points I'm really under or over. I had set up the British convoy lines before France if I'm not mistaking and I sure had them dialed in nicely while doing production planning during set up to check how many convoy points over I might be in what sea areas.

Which brings me to another beef I had with Marinacci's convoy programming and that is that it seems like every time I went into the CW Production Screen to set up my convoy lines the damned program would always rethink it the next time I went in. I'd get convoy lines set up the way I wanted then the next time I went in I had to redo it all over again because the stupid program rethought it all out. What's needed is a dumber program that doesn't think every time we go into the production planning screen. It's still not all that stable from preliminary production planning at the end of the turn to the actual production post oil usage. I wish we could tell the program to not think for us, to let us do all the convoy route planning and that way we could set convoy lines the way we want once and not have to sweat out the astupid program changing them every damned time we go into production planning.

Omnius

< Message edited by Omnius -- 12/3/2013 11:23:18 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/3/2013 11:12:53 PM

lomyrin

Posts: 3741
Joined: 12/21/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline

+1

Although I have not had any problems with the Japanese build point reaching the US, it has been automatic

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 2

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 12:15:39 AM

Ingtar

Posts: 194
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline

I thought you had to put five in only one zone to both receive the resources and send the build point. I would think that if the resources are not flowing to Japan, the build point would not flow back. I could be misunderstanding the post, however.

(in reply to lomyrin)

Post #: 3

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 12:32:02 AM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

I used the default setup files for the US and Japan in GW and the resources and BPs are flowing fine between the two countries.

(in reply to Ingtar)

Post #: 4

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 4:07:59 AM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

My one big beef with Marinacci's first computer version of World in Flames was that the convoying of resources and build points was rather difficult. I read many months ago how Steve was fixing up this problem for MWiF and I was really glad to read that good news.

However I'm not real impressed with the improvements. I just put in a bug report about Japan not sending the build point to the USA like it should automatically to start the Global War scenario, despite me having the one unused convoy point in the 5 sea areas by Japan and the USA. I'm having trouble trying to force Japan to send a production build point to the USA on the second turn. I now have to try saving a Japanese build point to see if after it's saved on the map I can send it to the USA. I sure hope this problem gets fixed soon so we can start Global War and not have to sweat out getting the Japanese build point to the USA. The good thing is that the program isn't enforcing a penalty. It looks like all the other pre-war trade agreements are working properly.

My other complaint is that the program is using the convoy points from other countries, thus screwing them out of getting to use them. I set up a convoy chain from Hanoi to the south of France and somehow the British are now using several of the convoy points instead of their own. It becomes very difficult to track down which convoy is abusing the French convoy points. A real shame that we don't get asked beforehand if some other country is willing to allow a different country to use their convoy points. It sure would have been nice if as France I could have said no to Britain using convoy points along that line so I could have known how many convoy points I'm really under or over. I had set up the British convoy lines before France if I'm not mistaking and I sure had them dialed in nicely while doing production planning during set up to check how many convoy points over I might be in what sea areas.

Which brings me to another beef I had with Marinacci's convoy programming and that is that it seems like every time I went into the CW Production Screen to set up my convoy lines the damned program would always rethink it the next time I went in. I'd get convoy lines set up the way I wanted then the next time I went in I had to redo it all over again because the stupid program rethought it all out. What's needed is a dumber program that doesn't think every time we go into the production planning screen. It's still not all that stable from preliminary production planning at the end of the turn to the actual production post oil usage. I wish we could tell the program to not think for us, to let us do all the convoy route planning and that way we could set convoy lines the way we want once and not have to sweat out the astupid program changing them every damned time we go into production planning.

Omnius

warspite1

+1

_____________________________

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(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 5

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 1:12:24 PM

gw15

Posts: 919
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline

Production works great for me. I think the program does a good job. No problems with Japan production at all.
To set up the convoys you have to work outward from your country and "recalculate" after everyplacement. It works.

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 6

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 1:15:37 PM

Zorachus99

Posts: 1066
Joined: 9/15/2000
From: Palo Alto, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bommerrang

Production works great for me. I think the program does a good job. No problems with Japan production at all.
To set up the convoys you have to work outward from your country and "recalculate" after everyplacement. It works.

This is one of the better workarounds. Gave the tip to a friend, and he is much happier.

_____________________________

Most men can survive adversity, the true test of a man's character is power. -Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to gw15)

Post #: 7

Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:09:17 PM

Omnius

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From: Salinas, CA
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Numdydar,
Sorry but I'm not going to play the lame default set up that wipes out most of the optional rules. I'm sure that the dumbed down default set up works fine with the Japanese build point going to the USA. However I want to play with almost all of the optional rules so I have to set up all sides manually.

Omnius

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 8

Not Helping to Solve the Problem - 12/4/2013 4:13:31 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

bommerrang,
I didn't complain that I couldn't get the Japanese resources to the factories for production, only that Japan wasn't sending the build point to the USA automatically. I have the unused Japanese convoy point in the Japanese Coast with the 4 unused USA convoys, one each in the four USA sea areas that are specified in the set up.

It's a shame that people don't seem to read and understand my problem and that no one yet has given me a good answer as to how to make the Japanese build point go to the USA. It should happen automatically and it isn't.

Omnius

(in reply to gw15)

Post #: 9

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:15:11 PM

markb50k

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Numdydar,
Sorry but I'm not going to play the lame default set up that wipes out most of the optional rules. I'm sure that the dumbed down default set up works fine with the Japanese build point going to the USA. However I want to play with almost all of the optional rules so I have to set up all sides manually.

Omnius

I think you misunderstood. During Setup phase, after you've already set the optional rules, etc. you can use the "Restore Setup" button and it will load the CPs using a default setup. It complains about what optional rules the setup used, but dont worry, it wont force you to change any of your rules, it just will not deploy things you didnt add to the game, or vice versa. Its pretty straightforward and you can edit off of the default placement to your hearts content.

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 10

A Bad Answer - 12/4/2013 4:16:20 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

Warspite1,
You sure wasted a lot of space copying my entire post just to give me a stupid cryptic +1 answer that does nothing to help me. If you don't have a good helpful answer then I suggest you not answer at all. All I'd like is a straight, intelligent answer as to how to make Japan send the build point to the USA in the Global War scenario from a manual set up.

Omnius

< Message edited by Omnius -- 12/4/2013 5:17:10 PM >

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 11

RE: Not Helping to Solve the Problem - 12/4/2013 4:16:53 PM

Ingtar

Posts: 194
Joined: 8/1/2004
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The set up rules complain if you do not set up 5 convoys in each of the areas you mentions (3? sea zones for the USA and 1 for Japan). With 5 in each zone, I have never seen this problem. Is your 1 convoy point really 5?

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 12

Thanks for a Good Answer - 12/4/2013 4:19:31 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
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From: Salinas, CA
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markb50k,
Thank you for giving me a good, simple helpful answer.

I hope I can remember that answer for my next new Global War game. If I'm not mistaken there aren't default set ups for every scenario, or are these special default convoy set ups for every scenarios?

Omnius

(in reply to markb50k)

Post #: 13

RE: Not Helping to Solve the Problem - 12/4/2013 4:22:09 PM

markb50k

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

bommerrang,
I didn't complain that I couldn't get the Japanese resources to the factories for production, only that Japan wasn't sending the build point to the USA automatically. I have the unused Japanese convoy point in the Japanese Coast with the 4 unused USA convoys, one each in the four USA sea areas that are specified in the set up.

It's a shame that people don't seem to read and understand my problem and that no one yet has given me a good answer as to how to make the Japanese build point go to the USA. It should happen automatically and it isn't.

Omnius

I am having a similar issue. Question for you: are you seeing this issue during the Production phase, or are you still in the middle of the turn? I am curious because perhaps it cant move build points until you actually have build points. The user manual somewhat intimates that this "auto-sending" of BPs happens during the Production planning phase. Something worth confirming..

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 14

Not Helping - 12/4/2013 4:22:31 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

Ingtar,
Thanks for assuming I'm a complete idiot, a shame you didn't read my posts to see that I had no problem shipping the USA resources to Japan. The one unused convoy point I mentioned was because I do have 5 convoy points in the 5 sea areas and the resources from the USA to Japan are using the other four. Try improving your reading comprehension so you don't make insulting, lame answers that provide no help whatsoever.

Omnius

(in reply to Ingtar)

Post #: 15

RE: Thanks for a Good Answer - 12/4/2013 4:24:55 PM

markb50k

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

markb50k,
Thank you for giving me a good, simple helpful answer. I hope I can remember that answer for my next new Global War game. If I'm not mistaken there aren't default set ups for every scenario, or are these special default convoy set ups for every scenarios?

Omnius

The default setups are PER scenario PER major power, so I am not sure if there are ones for the others like Barbarrosa, but I am for Global War. I'm also assuming that this particular CP setup is only in the GW default setup file, and other appropriate CP setups are in the other scenario setup files.

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 16

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:26:20 PM

Numdydar

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Numdydar,
Sorry but I'm not going to play the lame default set up that wipes out most of the optional rules. I'm sure that the dumbed down default set up works fine with the Japanese build point going to the USA. However I want to play with almost all of the optional rules so I have to set up all sides manually.

Omnius

What on earth are you talking about?

When you set up a new game, you can set any optional rules you want. Loading the default setup for each country does nothing to change the optional rules settings you selected at the start. The setup files are country specific and ONLY put units on the map that are NOT randomly picked out of the force pool AND are optional, like convoys.

I am using 90% of the optional rules and the default setups worked fine for me. The optional units, like divisions, etc. are still available. You just need to set them up manually. That is all the error message is telling you, the default file will NOT automaticly place the optional units on the map. Not that the units are eliminated or you cannot use them. I still have CVPs and pilots, etc. in the game even loading the default setups.

I find it hard to believe you did not even try using the default files before coming here and complaining. If you hate and despise the game so much, why don't you ask Erik for a refund.

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 17

RE: Thanks for a Good Answer - 12/4/2013 4:29:35 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

See Saved Setups, Players Manual volume 2 pages 207 & 208.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 18

A Common Problem - 12/4/2013 4:30:10 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

markb50,
I'm having the problem in any phase where I check the production planning for Japan. I couldn't get Japan to send the build point to America either in the preliminary production planning phase just before oil usage or the final production planning phase post oil usage.

I have the requisite unused convoy point in all 5 sea areas. Now one interesting thing I noticed after my second turn's final production for Japan was that I saved one Japanese build point in the Build Phase and when I looked at the production planning screen after that I saw a build point as being reported being sent in trade.

It makes me wonder if I have to save a Japanese build point each turn in order to be able to send it to the USA, perhaps on the following turn? I did try saving a Japanese build point in the preliminary production planning phase during the end of turn phases but I couldn't get any Japanese factory to trade one to the USA. I'm not getting any set up error message and if I hadn't set up the correct convoy points I assume the program would balk at letting me move forward on the USA or Japanese set up.

Omnius

(in reply to markb50k)

Post #: 19

RE: Thanks for a Good Answer - 12/4/2013 4:31:21 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
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From: Salinas, CA
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Shannon,
Will do! Thanks for giving me some good, specific help!

Omnius

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Post #: 20

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:34:10 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

Numdydar,
A better solution might be for you not to respond to my messages since you seem to totally misunderstand everything I say. I do thank you for telling me that I can use a default set up while selecting the optional rules I want to use. I didn't know that before but will give that a try in the future.

As far as hating the game where did I say that? Don't put false words in my mouth.

Omnius

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 21

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:38:50 PM

Numdydar

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It just seemed that way to me from your writing. As I definately misunderstood, then I certainly appoligize as sometimes things come across on forums in ways that the poster did not intend.

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Post #: 22

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:44:04 PM

brian brian

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
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Generally, a simple "+1" response means someone agrees with you 100%

just an internet shorthand kind of thing, kids today, etc.

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Post #: 23

RE: Not an Option - 12/4/2013 4:46:45 PM

Ingtar

Posts: 194
Joined: 8/1/2004
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I had no intention of calling you or implying you are an idiot in that post. In the multiple setups I have tried, both using the load option or doing it manually, if I did not have enough convoy points to meet the resource/production point requirements, there was a pop up message telling me I had it wrong. I was trying to determine what your set up was that it was failing without telling you during unit placement. The only other odd thing I have seen is if you ever click the return unused convoys, it might take them off of sentry. That might meet the requirements for numbers, but would force you to return to base. Pardon me for trying to help.

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 24

RE: A Common Problem - 12/4/2013 4:59:59 PM

markb50k

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

markb50,
I'm having the problem in any phase where I check the production planning for Japan. I couldn't get Japan to send the build point to America either in the preliminary production planning phase just before oil usage or the final production planning phase post oil usage.

I have the requisite unused convoy point in all 5 sea areas. Now one interesting thing I noticed after my second turn's final production for Japan was that I saved one Japanese build point in the Build Phase and when I looked at the production planning screen after that I saw a build point as being reported being sent in trade.

It makes me wonder if I have to save a Japanese build point each turn in order to be able to send it to the USA, perhaps on the following turn? I did try saving a Japanese build point in the preliminary production planning phase during the end of turn phases but I couldn't get any Japanese factory to trade one to the USA. I'm not getting any set up error message and if I hadn't set up the correct convoy points I assume the program would balk at letting me move forward on the USA or Japanese set up.

Omnius

you are seeing the same issue I am. The ONLY BPs I see being sent from France to CW (I have a trade agreement) are the ones that are already saved to the map the previous turn.

One thing I'm curious about: If you read the rules it says that any BP that you are signed up to send via trade agreement, that you can't send for whatever reason, you can't use that BP yourself. I dont think the game enforces this. So the one BP that Japan is supposed to send to the US, is Japan able to use that one? Methinks, given your observations and mine, that the trade BP functionality is just broken unless its railed or its already saved on the map.

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 25

Just Frustrated - 12/4/2013 5:56:19 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

Numdydar,
Sorry you mistook my frustration for being mad. The convoy programming is the most important part of the programming to me since I encountered Marinacci's program so long ago. I'm just trying to understand how to control convoy routing better and so far I'm a tad disappointed that I see only a minimal improvement over Marinacci's convoy routing.

Sorry if I snapped at you but I'm just trying to understand how to control my convoy routing better and yes I'm a tad frustrated, I'll try to be less so in future posts. I do have a new observation so check my upcoming message and if you're a whiz at calculating supply then I'm about to write up a new thread regarding my problem getting supply working properly for the Japanese in China.

Omnius

(in reply to Numdydar)

Post #: 26

Thanks for New Info - 12/4/2013 5:57:38 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

brian brian,
Thanks for telling me what +1 means on the internet and this forum. Yes it is hard for an old fart like me to keep up with the latest forum lingo created by the clever kinder.

Omnius

(in reply to brian brian)

Post #: 27

Sincere Apology - 12/4/2013 6:00:50 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

Warspite1,
I'm deeply sorry that I totally misunderstood your +1 answer to my convoy routing the Japanese build point dilemma. Please disregard my previous arrogant and ignorant rant about your answer that at the time made no sense whatsoever to me.

I do hope that by complaining about the convoy routing I can help get it improved. It really drives me crazy that I get routing done the way I like and the next time I'm in the production planning screen it totally changes.

Omnius

(in reply to warspite1)

Post #: 28

RE: Production Convoy Settings Not Impressive - 12/4/2013 6:11:19 PM

Centuur

Posts: 8802
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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

My one big beef with Marinacci's first computer version of World in Flames was that the convoying of resources and build points was rather difficult. I read many months ago how Steve was fixing up this problem for MWiF and I was really glad to read that good news.

However I'm not real impressed with the improvements. I just put in a bug report about Japan not sending the build point to the USA like it should automatically to start the Global War scenario, despite me having the one unused convoy point in the 5 sea areas by Japan and the USA. I'm having trouble trying to force Japan to send a production build point to the USA on the second turn. I now have to try saving a Japanese build point to see if after it's saved on the map I can send it to the USA. I sure hope this problem gets fixed soon so we can start Global War and not have to sweat out getting the Japanese build point to the USA. The good thing is that the program isn't enforcing a penalty. It looks like all the other pre-war trade agreements are working properly.

My other complaint is that the program is using the convoy points from other countries, thus screwing them out of getting to use them. I set up a convoy chain from Hanoi to the south of France and somehow the British are now using several of the convoy points instead of their own. It becomes very difficult to track down which convoy is abusing the French convoy points. A real shame that we don't get asked beforehand if some other country is willing to allow a different country to use their convoy points. It sure would have been nice if as France I could have said no to Britain using convoy points along that line so I could have known how many convoy points I'm really under or over. I had set up the British convoy lines before France if I'm not mistaking and I sure had them dialed in nicely while doing production planning during set up to check how many convoy points over I might be in what sea areas.

Which brings me to another beef I had with Marinacci's convoy programming and that is that it seems like every time I went into the CW Production Screen to set up my convoy lines the damned program would always rethink it the next time I went in. I'd get convoy lines set up the way I wanted then the next time I went in I had to redo it all over again because the stupid program rethought it all out. What's needed is a dumber program that doesn't think every time we go into the production planning screen. It's still not all that stable from preliminary production planning at the end of the turn to the actual production post oil usage. I wish we could tell the program to not think for us, to let us do all the convoy route planning and that way we could set convoy lines the way we want once and not have to sweat out the astupid program changing them every damned time we go into production planning.

Omnius

+1

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Omnius)

Post #: 29

We're Seeing the Same Problem - 12/4/2013 6:19:56 PM

Omnius

Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

you are seeing the same issue I am. The ONLY BPs I see being sent from France to CW (I have a trade agreement) are the ones that are already saved to the map the previous turn.

One thing I'm curious about: If you read the rules it says that any BP that you are signed up to send via trade agreement, that you can't send for whatever reason, you can't use that BP yourself. I dont think the game enforces this. So the one BP that Japan is supposed to send to the US, is Japan able to use that one? Methinks, given your observations and mine, that the trade BP functionality is just broken unless its railed or its already saved on the map.

markb50k,
Yes we are seeing the same problem. I just went back into my game. I'm on the third turn, Jan/Feb 1940. I'm in the CW naval movement phase but pulled up the production planning screen to see what's up with Japan and the USA.

What I see is that in the USA production planning screen I am now getting 1 BP in trade. In the Japanese production planning screen I see that I have one saved BP and that at the very bottom line it is being traded to the USA. It certainly looks like it's impossible to get a Japanese BP sent while it is being produced. I tried to reroute one from Japan on turn 2 during preliminary production planning then again in the final production planning subphases of the end turn phase but could not do so. I'll have to see if I can Save a Japanese build point before or during final production planning and then send it in trade to the USA, or watch to see if the program does it automatically like it did for my saved Japanese BP.

This really needs to be fixed so the Japanese send a BP to the USA from the first turn after the setup. It looks like Germany is sending it's BP to the USSR, I didn't see anything amiss except for the Japanese to USA BP not being squared away on the first turn, post setup.

As to your question regarding can the Japanese use the build point it's supposed to send to the USA and yes I was able to use every Japanese build point produced, there was no reduction. On the USA side I did not get an extra build point to use, so the USA got shorted the first two turns.

I also wish that the program would do less rethinking of convoy routing whenever we go into the production planning screen. I found that the 4 resources I idled for the USA to hopefully send to Japan didn't go, the program has certain ones it sends preprogrammed and we can't change that. I was frustrated that the four resources that I idled during set up didn't get recalculated for production on the first turn. I manually set them to produce the first turn but then on turn two I had to reset them yet again. Why won't the program remember my manual resource pathing? This was what really irked me about Marinacci's version and I thought for sure Steven was going to rectify this annoying problem in MWiF. If we set manual resource paths and convoy routes the program should remember them and never change them, the program really needs to be dumbed down as regards constantly rethinking convoy and resource pathing.

Omnius

(in reply to markb50k)

Post #: 30