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(New) books on WW2 - 12/17/2013 10:45:44 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Mark Peattie,Edward Drea,Hans van de Ven (Eds.): The Battle for China: Essays on the Military History of the Sino-Japanese War of 1937-1945 [Hardcover], Stanford UP (2010).
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The%20Battle%20for%20China%3A%20Essays%20on%20the%20Military%20History%20of%20the%20Sino-Japanese%20War%20of%201937-1945


Rana Mitter: China's War With Japan 1937-1945 [Hardcover], Allan Lane (2013).
http://www.amazon.com/Chinas-War-With-Japan-1937-1945/dp/1846140102/ref=tmm_hrd_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1387280229&sr=8-3

(Same book as above)
Rana Mitter: Forgotten Ally: China’s War with Japan, 1937-1945, Allan Lane (2013).
http://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Ally-Rana-Mitter/dp/061889425X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387280478&sr=8-1&keywords=rana+mitter

< Message edited by wosung -- 12/17/2013 11:46:39 AM >
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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/17/2013 1:23:20 PM   
Extraneous

 

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Status: offline 		This book accurately predicted a number of details that occurred in the Pacific during World War II.

The Great Pacific War, by Hector Charles Bywater 1925



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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/17/2013 11:55:47 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

This book accurately predicted a number of details that occurred in the Pacific during World War II.

The Great Pacific War, by Hector Charles Bywater 1925


Coincidentally, just finished reading Neptune's Inferno by James D. Hornfischer in which he mentions this fact. Before that I read Shattered Sword by Parshall & Tully which is a superb re-examination of Midway, and now sitting on the shelf is the book I should have read first - to keep them all in chronological order - Pacific Crucible by Ian W Toll.



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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/18/2013 8:48:03 AM   
Hokum

 

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From: France
Status: offline 		Professor Mitter's book is interesting, but is more of an introductory book than anything else. It mostly focuses on political affairs on China's side, and the war itself, despite the title, only appears almost reluctantly, in passing. I would only suggest it for people who don't know what Taierzhuang is, or who Wang Jing-wei was. Or this could be a disappointment (as it was for me).

The compilation of essays is really good, I heartily recommend it to anyone with an interest in the war in China.

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/18/2013 11:41:38 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hokum

Professor Mitter's book is interesting, but is more of an introductory book than anything else. It mostly focuses on political affairs on China's side, and the war itself, despite the title, only appears almost reluctantly, in passing. I would only suggest it for people who don't know what Taierzhuang is, or who Wang Jing-wei was. Or this could be a disappointment (as it was for me).

The compilation of essays is really good, I heartily recommend it to anyone with an interest in the war in China.



how do they compare to Tuchmann's Stilwell & the American Experience in China? That is really the only book on the subject I have found that doesn't gloss over things quickly. But that one too covers the politics more than the actual combat, though it does it very, very well.

I have looked for other volumes at times, but have only found one deluxe history from a professor at one of the Universities in California ... runs about $200. Many of the histories from China itself are tangled up in disputes, as the ones written in Taiwan are considered heavily slanted as compared to the ones written in China, and vice-versa of course.


thanks for the leads on these though Wosung, maybe I'll try the essay collection when I can

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/19/2013 10:24:10 AM   
wosung

 

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Status: offline 		Hokum:
right, the Mitter book is an introduction focusing on politics and social aspects. But new Western books about China in WW2 are rare. Plus, arguably, in the case of China in WW2 politics mattered more than military affairs.

brian brian:
Tuchman's book is based on the Stilwell papers. Thus, it's quite sympathetic to Stilwell. Crititizing Chinese leadership. And in a way focused on the Northern Burma campaign.

Mitter's book is based also on Chinese sources and literature. Among others he's quite sceptical about Stilwell's focus on Northern Burma draining too much ressources for to little gain.

Vinegar Joe the military pro (and indirectly his biographer Tuchman) was fixed on Line of Communications, thus Burma. While Mitter the China expert is fixed on Chinese options and capabilities.

The collection of essays is focussed on Chinese and Japanese military matters: From the Pacific context to campaigns to infantry tactics. Arguably the best you can find. Hopefully there's a paperback in the future.

< Message edited by wosung -- 12/19/2013 11:24:49 AM >

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/20/2013 6:06:24 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
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Status: offline 		I agree that the Tuchmann book is written from Stilwell's point of view (indeed it is his biography, basically), but I thought Tuchmann wrote it well enough that the reader could understand that a lot of the views of the Chinese being described were Stilwell's and/or other American's views. She definitely let the "Vinegar" shine through.

It would depend a lot on the reader how well that is understood though. I thought it was the first book I read on WWII in China that left me with an understanding of Chiang and the decisions he made, unlike almost all other material on the subject.

There is a lot on Burma, sure, but that is a lot of where the 'American Experience' occurred. Perhaps a biography of Chennault would be a good companion piece to consider.

My favorite part of the Stilwell bio section is his experiences at the US Army Corps-level wargames in Louisiana in 1940... he both won and lost the 'game', by attacking the other force at night. Which was against the "Rules."

Stilwell's response was "In war, there are no rules." One has to wonder what he might have accomplished in the European theater, but the Tuchmann book does a nice job of illustrating why he was the best and worst possible candidate for the US effort in China.

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/20/2013 8:09:55 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck


quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

This book accurately predicted a number of details that occurred in the Pacific during World War II.

The Great Pacific War, by Hector Charles Bywater 1925


Coincidentally, just finished reading Neptune's Inferno by James D. Hornfischer in which he mentions this fact. Before that I read Shattered Sword by Parshall & Tully which is a superb re-examination of Midway, and now sitting on the shelf is the book I should have read first - to keep them all in chronological order - Pacific Crucible by Ian W Toll.


warspite1

Shattered Sword is one of the best WWII books I've ever read. An interesting story superbly written

Neptune's Inferno sadly was not so good imo. I stopped reading after one chapter and gave the book away. For the definitive Guadalcanal story I would plump for Guadalcanal by Frank.

I would also recommend Bywater. The Man Who Invented The Pacific War. Interesting character!!

There are two books I have plugged previously but are so good I will shamelessly keep plugging away - The Battle For Norway and The German Invasion of Norway by Geirr H Haarr. If you are at all interested in naval warfare these two books are a must!


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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/21/2013 10:53:57 AM   
wosung

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
why he was the best and worst possible candidate for the US effort in China.


At first, in Dec. 1941, Marshall planned Stilwell to lead the first US offensive of the war - the invasion of Casablanca or Dakar. It didn't happen because there was no French invitation to *invade*.

Plus, Stilwell wasn't even top candidate for China. First choice was Drum b/c of seniority. But in fact no one, including Drum, wanted to go to China. It was seen as a dead end far away from the real action. In the end Stilwell got the assignment because of Drum's clumsy political maneuvres to avoid China and because his own China experience.
Lesson to learn: Special abilities may lead to a dead end career-wise. Be a generalist.

Eric Larrabee, Commander in Chief, Roosevelt, his Lieutenants and their War, NY 1987, pp. 509-513.

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/21/2013 6:22:07 PM   
paulderynck


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
Neptune's Inferno sadly was not so good imo. I stopped reading after one chapter and gave the book away. For the definitive Guadalcanal story I would plump for Guadalcanal by Frank.

Sorry to hear that, given your interests, I'm surprised you didn't like it. It's more about the naval actions and Japan trying to supply/reinforce than about the fighting on the island.

Plus I had thoroughly enjoyed Hornfischer's book: The Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors


< Message edited by paulderynck -- 12/21/2013 7:23:21 PM >

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/21/2013 6:42:08 PM   
Canoerebel


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Status: offline 		Neptune's Inferno was awful.  Like Warspite, I gave up (I read perhaps three or four chapters) and gave my copy away.

No Bended Knee by Merrill Twining, who was on Vandegrift's staff at Guadalcanal is definitely worth reading.

I wish we had historian/communicators on the level of Stephen Ambrose and Cornelius Ryan writing WWII history.  Those two were superb.

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/22/2013 6:45:25 PM   
SirWhiskers

 

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Status: offline 		Anyone able to recommend a good book that covers the month or two following D-Day? I've found good books on D-Day itself, and on the overall campaign in Western Europe in 1944-45, but the period between the landings and the breakout seems to be given short shrift. A friend and I are playing Breakout Normandy face to face and it's gotten me interested.

Thanks.

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/22/2013 8:29:50 PM   
paulderynck


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From: Canada
Status: offline 		The Canadians in Normandy are well covered by: Breakout from Juno by Mark Zuelke

There's also Fields of Fire: The Canadians in Normandy by Terry Copp which discusses the accompanying British offensives in Normandy.

I liked Zuelke's book better. (Caveat: but then I liked Neptune's Inferno)

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/22/2013 11:17:06 PM   
Courtenay


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Status: offline 		Max Hastings, Overlord: D-Day and the Battle for Normandy

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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/23/2013 6:03:56 PM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirWhiskers

Anyone able to recommend a good book that covers the month or two following D-Day? I've found good books on D-Day itself, and on the overall campaign in Western Europe in 1944-45, but the period between the landings and the breakout seems to be given short shrift. A friend and I are playing Breakout Normandy face to face and it's gotten me interested.

Thanks.
warspite1

Six Armies in Normandy (John Keegan). Well worth a read.


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England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



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RE: (New) books on WW2 - 12/23/2013 7:49:39 PM   
pierreoza

 

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Status: offline 		"Decision in normandy" from Carlo d'Este.

Very good book on d-day and the following month.

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