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Your Favorite Computer Wargame? - 1/25/2003 6:03:28 AM   
Veldor


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It seems these days alot of the 'good' computer wargames and publishers are not readily known. As I'd like to add a few more games to my collection while I wait for more Matrix titles, I'd like to know which computer wargames out there you most enjoy.

I'm mostly looking for XP-compatible games not more than a couple years old. My list currently would go something like this:

1. Uncommon Valor: Campaign for the South Pacific - Matrix
2. Close Combat Series - Microsoft/SSI
3. Diplomacy - Avalon Hill/Microprose
4. Advanced Civilization - Avalon Hill
5. The Operational Art of War II - Talonsoft

That would be my top five, I'm a sucker for Avalon Hill games.
Anyone play Strategic Command from Battefront? I tried the demo, and aside from some oddity with troop replenishment, seemed like a pretty good "serious" wargame alternative to Axis & Allies...

How bout Tac Ops 4? Europa Universallis II? I need some new games...
Post #: 1
- 1/25/2003 6:58:20 AM   
brent_2

 

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Go for Uncommon Valor - I just started getting into it and am enjoying it. Ton of things to learn in this one.

Close Combat is also worth purchasing. I keep coming back to this series time after time. Only Combat Leader and CLose Assault from Matrix here may come close to replacing it, if all comes to pass as I have been hoping.

I would also suggest any of the Total War series of games as worth some time

BCT and its successor ArmoredTaskForce are also both worth a look, although I have not been actively playing this for a while.

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Post #: 2
- 1/25/2003 7:26:28 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Favourite Computer Wargame.

That makes it veeeeeeery easy.

[SIZE=4]Steel Panthers any version[/SIZE]

That was a given I suppose.

AI in the Mega Campaigns is adequate or at least Lost Victories is not a tea party hehe.

But the game shines because it comes in so many flavours.
You can play it basic (I actually have a buddy that finds original is all he needs), you can play it SPWaW, or you can play it SPWW2 version. You can play it modern as well. You can play it brigade level ala Panzerleader level amusement.

The number of scenarios out there is mind boggling. If you have played every scenario twice, for god's sake man you need help:) .

The game has Battle mode if you just want non historical fun, or Scenarios if you just want to play in 30 seconds or less. You can play a long campaign (but the AI doesn't seem up to the challenge). And of course there are the Mega Campaigns (what you should be playing instead of the Long Campaigns in my opinion).

Then there is the extensive online community if playing a person is absolutely paramount.

It looks good enough to make a ASL player smile (and that isn't easy).

Hey it's not my fault if the game is free and is therefore not capable of putting you out of pocket man.

After Steel Panthers there is of course Operational Art of War. It looks like all my board games. it is WW2 and it is Modern. Best yet, it's still on sale (that helps I guess).

Allied General/Panzer General/Panzer General 2/Peoples General. Hmm aside from the fact they are either free or next to it. They are pleasing graphically, they are incredibly easy to play, and they cover from WW2 to modern yet again (I like a game that is thorough).

I will include Strategic Command (it can be better, and I think it will be), it is an acceptable Grand Strategy design in a world which I think really has no recent games in this category other than it. Grand Strategy is an untapped field right now. All the GS games of the past are definitely long in the tooth (good look getting most to run on even your now getting older rapidly Win 98SE platorms).

I don't own it, but I can clearly saw that Battlefield 1942 is currently the front runner in FPS games. Just make sure you are running it on a "good" system, my 800 celeron with a modest 32 meg video card and 256 megs of Ram just barely gets in the door.

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Post #: 3
- 1/25/2003 7:34:22 AM   
SLAAKATTAK

 

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From: EARTH
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AH- RUSSIAN CAMPAIGN, FORTRESS EUROPA, WOODEN SHIPS IRON MEN,
BATTLE OF THE BULGE.

SPI-PRESTAGS, KURSK, INVASION AMERICA, WAR IN EUROPE, OPERATION TYPHOON.

COMPUTER GAMES;
OPERATIONAL ART OF WAR;COW- TRYING TO SETUP "EUROPE AFLAME" GRAND STRATEGIC SCENARIO

CLOSE COMBAT 3- REAL RED MOD, AFRIKA KORPS MOD, PACIFIC WAR, FINNISH MOD, FRANCE1940 MOD. 500+MAPS

AGE OF EMPIRES;AGE OF KINGS,

STARCRAFT; BROODWARS-ARMAGEDDON.

SSI VERSION OF SECOND FRONT FOR MAC (MATRIX VERSION IS WIR)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ALIENS VS PREDATOR( FPS)

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Post #: 4
- 1/25/2003 2:25:27 PM   
MarkFroio


Posts: 127
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From: Mercer Island, WA
Status: offline
Steel Panthers WAW - Countless hours playing this game, and it's free.

Uncommon Valor - This game has sucked me in, chewed me up and left me limp.

The above two games are my current favorites, but in the past and not too distant future I've enjoyed and will enjoy again:

Russo-German War
Close Combat
Panzer General I or II

Have fun.

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Post #: 5
- 1/25/2003 3:34:55 PM   
scimitar

 

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Steel Panthers WAW.

I like also some old goodies like Empire Deluxe, Flight Commander II, Warlords III, Civilization II and Alpha Centauri...

I'm waiting for Combat Leader (and the modern module(s))...

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Post #: 6
- 1/25/2003 4:07:42 PM   
pasternakski


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Advanced Civilization by AH does not play on XP.

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And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 7
- 1/25/2003 5:06:45 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
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From: Melb. Australia
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1- Uncomon Valour

2- Harpoon 2 AE


These two games have spent the longest time on my hard drive than any other game that I have ever used. Sadly H2 AE is no longer in use. :( But UV still takes up all of my wargaming time, and has done so since it was released some 8 months ago IIRC.

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Post #: 8
There can be only one.. - 1/26/2003 12:04:19 AM   
wulfir


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[B]Steel Panthers[/B] :cool:

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Semper in Primis

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Post #: 9
- 1/26/2003 1:29:08 AM   
Mad Cow


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Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
TOAW: ACOW
Civil War Generals II

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Post #: 10
Current favorites - 1/26/2003 4:35:13 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I recently bought Silent Hunter II, so that's occupying most of my gaming time now. My HD has limited space, so I took Age of Mythology off, but that's a game with potential, and I've been a big fan of the series since the original Age of Empires. SPWaW is a permanent fixture--no wargamer should be without this all-time classic. I also have Russo-German War 1941-44, and this one will also be an all-time classic once all the fine-tuning is done. I recommend this one only to true hardcore Eastern Front fans with lots of time on their hands. Frank Hunter's ACW is still there, as is TAO 2--more freebies, and both are elegantly designed & enjoyable to play. I have several others occupying shelf space, and I envy those with the 40GB and above HDs--I only have an 8.4, otherwise they would ALL be current residents of my PC. In any case, the last 6 years have been a golden age for PC wargamers, so we don't have much to complain about, other than so many quality games and so little time to play them all! :(

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Post #: 11
- 1/26/2003 4:51:57 AM   
Reiryc

 

Posts: 4991
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1. Closecombat 1
2. Decision in the Desert
3. Pirates
4. PacWar
5. Uncommon Valor
6. Europa Universalis 1 & 2
7. Rest of Closecombat series
8. Velikye Luki
9. Steel Panthers 1
10. Stalingrad World at War series

Reiryc

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Post #: 12
- 1/26/2003 5:14:08 AM   
The Shadow

 

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reiryc
[B]1. Closecombat 1
2. Decision in the Desert
3. Pirates
4. PacWar
5. Uncommon Valor
6. Europa Universalis 1 & 2
7. Rest of Closecombat series
8. Velikye Luki
9. Steel Panthers 1
10. Stalingrad World at War series

Reiryc [/B][/QUOTE]
Reiryc, could you give me your opinion why Close Combat 1 is better than the others? Mostly everyone says 2,3, or 5 are the best. Also will CC1 run on WinXP?

Also to save another post, my favorites are the 2 Combat Mission games and Airborne Assault:Red Devils or Arnhem.

The Comabt Mission games are the first wargames I've played where terrain and LOS actually mean something. If a wargamer who likes squad level combat says he doesnt like the CM games, he just hasn't given them a chance.

AA:RDoA is so revolutionary, I haven't quite figured it out yet. A real time, top down, operational level wargame with no hexes?? Yep. By the way all 3 games come with outstanding manuals and I am a documentation freak. That's the reason I haven't got UV yet, I swore I'd never buy another wargame without printed, complete documentation. I learned my lesson from tiller's Squad Battles:Viet Nam.

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Post #: 13
- 1/26/2003 5:27:15 AM   
CCB


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SPWAW

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in den vereinigten staaten hergestellt

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Post #: 14
- 1/26/2003 5:47:44 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
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From: King's Landing
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]Advanced Civilization by AH does not play on XP. [/B][/QUOTE]

It most certainly does. It is up and running on my XP system. There are some problems with sound depending on your exact hardware/drivers, but the game itself works just fine on XP.

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Post #: 15
- 1/26/2003 5:51:33 AM   
Reiryc

 

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quote:

Reiryc, could you give me your opinion why Close Combat 1 is better than the others? Mostly everyone says 2,3, or 5 are the best. Also will CC1 run on WinXP?


First I don't know if cc1 will run on xp, but I would doubt it.

I think cc1 is the best due to the game play. I think the game play of the battles is the best out of all 5. They tend towards infantry combat more than armored combat.

Additionally, when playing the campaign, I felt 'attached' to my men much more so than when we could buy squads in the later itinerations. Your squads would suffer casualties and not be brought up to full strength until after a set of battles that were pre-determined. I'll address the predetermined battles in a minute. The squads would often get widdled down to 3 or 4 men through combat. I would often get attached to certain squads when this would happen. I wanted to make sure so and so would survive. So it increased the fun factor for me.

The soldier monitors and information monitors were the best of the series. You knew who was having psych problems in the squad and what the problem was. You had a threat indicator so that you could tell which general direction fire was coming from for a particular squad. You had a battle replay option so that you could watch the same battle again and save them when they were something in which you were proud of.

The campaign system seemed the most sensible to me out of the 5. In close combat 1, the history of the fight was not going to be changed by the actions of your one company sized or smaller force. The campaign would drive forward as your force was but a small cog in the wheel of a much greater force. Your division was going to progress regardless, as happened in the real war. The difference was whether or not you could keep up or advance faster than what happened in the real war. So your victories and defeats and how great they were would determine whether or not you would be ahead of the timeline of what really happened.

Thus the battles were in a sense predetermined in that you know you'll start just after the beaches and finally end up in st lo. There was some branching as when you would win on certain maps they would take you to a map that you might bypass if you lost or vice versa. So you had some control over where you went through victories or losses, but not so much that you went out of tune with what was going on in the much larger picture ie: your victories didn't change the inexorable drive of your division through the norman hedgerows to st lo.

The maps were also square tiles. This allowed the game to handle LOS with very very few issues. As the series continued, LOS issues increased with each new release as elevation started to take shape along with not perfect lines on the map itself. So you'll find at times you can shoot at something while that something can not trace an los back to you and shoot on you.

Anyways, that's my take on why it's the best of the series to me. The others were all good, don't get me wrong, but for some reason, they never did quite match up to cc1 for me in gameplay even with all the new added features.

Reiryc

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Post #: 16
- 1/26/2003 6:00:05 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
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From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
[QUOTE]First I don't know if cc1 will run on xp, but I would doubt it.[/QUOTE]

It works perfectly on XP, you just need a little trick to install it. Peter Fisla posted that workaround on the GI Combat forums

http://www.gicombat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=823&highlight=install+close+combat

And here´s a complete thing:

http://www.gicombat.co.uk/cc1_&_xp.htm

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Post #: 17
- 1/26/2003 6:08:24 AM   
SLAAKATTAK

 

Posts: 42
Joined: 1/8/2003
From: EARTH
Status: offline
THATS ALL VERY ROMANTIC REIRYC BUT THE QUESTION I HAVE CHUMP IS WHEN WILL YOU ENTER MY BARBQ MAP AT ZONE.COM OR MGO'S HOST SITE? I WANT TO SEE WHAT THE REMAINS OF "CHARRED-REIRYC SOUFFLE'" SMELLS LIKE!!!!:p I SHIVER WITH ANTICIPATION.......:D
SLAAKATTAK

PS- YOU CAN ASK REAP ABOUT THE PLEASANT "MACHINEGUN-FRY" HE EXPERIENCED LAST WEEK IN BERLIN......YEEEEEEEEHAAAAA!!!!!

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Post #: 18
- 1/26/2003 6:36:41 AM   
The Shadow

 

Posts: 14
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From: California, USA
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Reiryc
[B]First I don't know if cc1 will run on xp, but I would doubt it.

I think cc1 is the best due to the game play. I think the game play of the battles is the best out of all 5. They tend towards infantry combat more than armored combat.

Additionally, when playing the campaign, I felt 'attached' to my men much more so than when we could buy squads in the later itinerations. Your squads would suffer casualties and not be brought up to full strength until after a set of battles that were pre-determined. I'll address the predetermined battles in a minute. The squads would often get widdled down to 3 or 4 men through combat. I would often get attached to certain squads when this would happen. I wanted to make sure so and so would survive. So it increased the fun factor for me.

The soldier monitors and information monitors were the best of the series. You knew who was having psych problems in the squad and what the problem was. You had a threat indicator so that you could tell which general direction fire was coming from for a particular squad. You had a battle replay option so that you could watch the same battle again and save them when they were something in which you were proud of.

The campaign system seemed the most sensible to me out of the 5. In close combat 1, the history of the fight was not going to be changed by the actions of your one company sized or smaller force. The campaign would drive forward as your force was but a small cog in the wheel of a much greater force. Your division was going to progress regardless, as happened in the real war. The difference was whether or not you could keep up or advance faster than what happened in the real war. So your victories and defeats and how great they were would determine whether or not you would be ahead of the timeline of what really happened.

Thus the battles were in a sense predetermined in that you know you'll start just after the beaches and finally end up in st lo. There was some branching as when you would win on certain maps they would take you to a map that you might bypass if you lost or vice versa. So you had some control over where you went through victories or losses, but not so much that you went out of tune with what was going on in the much larger picture ie: your victories didn't change the inexorable drive of your division through the norman hedgerows to st lo.

The maps were also square tiles. This allowed the game to handle LOS with very very few issues. As the series continued, LOS issues increased with each new release as elevation started to take shape along with not perfect lines on the map itself. So you'll find at times you can shoot at something while that something can not trace an los back to you and shoot on you.

Anyways, that's my take on why it's the best of the series to me. The others were all good, don't get me wrong, but for some reason, they never did quite match up to cc1 for me in gameplay even with all the new added features.

Reiryc [/B][/QUOTE]
Wow, dude, thanks for the in-depth post, I’m convinced, and will start an eBay search ASAP.

You hit on an often overlooked aspect of war gaming, which is the immersive factor, that is, the attachment to your troops. This is a holdover form my role-playing days that if you name your char yourself, for some reason you just play better.

I always wanted to see the Close Combat games with the feature of being able to name your soldiers any name you choose, and being able to “peel off” a squad member or two for a light recon or ambush. I’d like to see this feature in the Combat Mission games also.

Thanks again.

_____________________________

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...Margaret Thatcher

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Post #: 19
- 1/26/2003 6:39:03 AM   
The Shadow

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 1/25/2003
From: California, USA
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Marc Schwanebeck
[B]It works perfectly on XP, you just need a little trick to install it. Peter Fisla posted that workaround on the GI Combat forums

http://www.gicombat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=823&highlight=install+close+combat

And here´s a complete thing:

http://www.gicombat.co.uk/cc1_&_xp.htm [/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks Marc, very helpful as a computer upgrade is near. I'm so paranoid about XP playing my older games, i'm thinking of bringing 98se along with me. Thanks

Also are you a moderator?

_____________________________

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't."
...Margaret Thatcher

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Post #: 20
- 1/26/2003 7:22:12 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Veldor
[B]It most certainly does. It is up and running on my XP system. There are some problems with sound depending on your exact hardware/drivers, but the game itself works just fine on XP. [/B][/QUOTE]

No kiddin'? I'd love to move this over to my good pooter instead of having to fire up the old 200mhz mmx box. Did you have to do anything special to get it to run? What's your configuration?

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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Post #: 21
Close Combat - 1/26/2003 10:30:46 AM   
KG Erwin


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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I own the collector's edition that includes CC1 thru 3. My favorite of that series is CC3, using the Real Red Mod that you can find on the web.

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Post #: 22
- 1/26/2003 10:39:27 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Some like 98SE some like XP.

That I hate 98 SE is no secret.

But.

The best solution for those not wishing to decide, is see that you have a reasonable size hard drive (reasonable is based on how much you intend to load up on eh).

Partition your hard drive so that you can set up 98SE on one partition, and then proceed to set up XP on the other.
And it has to be easy, after all I figured it out eh:)

Only work I had was setting up my hardware and video card etc for 98SE (because unlike with XP, you the user get to do all this work yourself with 98SE).

At that point, it's simple, you "refuse to pick just one OS".

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 23
- 1/26/2003 10:51:30 AM   
The Shadow

 

Posts: 14
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From: California, USA
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
[B]Some like 98SE some like XP.

That I hate 98 SE is no secret.

But.

The best solution for those not wishing to decide, is see that you have a reasonable size hard drive (reasonable is based on how much you intend to load up on eh).

Partition your hard drive so that you can set up 98SE on one partition, and then proceed to set up XP on the other.
And it has to be easy, after all I figured it out eh:)

Only work I had was setting up my hardware and video card etc for 98SE (because unlike with XP, you the user get to do all this work yourself with 98SE).

At that point, it's simple, you "refuse to pick just one OS". [/B][/QUOTE]
The PC I'm considering has a 200G HD with 768 Ram.
I was under the impression that XP had a DOS, Win95, and Win98se emulators. Are those buggy?

Well Les, I'm not a big fan of 98 either, blue screens and all, but I run my business through my PC and just dont want to learn a new OS again. In your opinion, is XP is a lot better or a little better than 98se?

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Post #: 24
- 1/26/2003 11:17:04 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

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Blue Screen? what's a "Blue Screen?"

Oh you mean something that happened before XP:)

No XP will not solve world hunger make you breakfast in bed, and sadly it won't play virtually every old piece of software under the sun (even with its emulation dodge that often does in deed work fine).

Example, I can not play Operational Art of War Elite Edition Volume One on XP period end of story.
Because the company stopped just prior to XP my scanner will also not run in Win XP.

As for learning a new OS check this out, XP doesn't have much of a learning curve. The first lesson was sufficient. "Here let me do all this for you".

XP will format, partition, and install itself, then establish your online needs and set up all your hardware for you.

The only thing I have ever had to learn with XP, was how to stop caring about a couple of programs that just don't like it.

My suggestion, partition 10 gigs for your Windows/applications and call it drive C. If you feel you can't yet part with 98 SE, install it first on the big ole space you call drive D and then install XP on the 10 gig as the primary OS.

Then when you finally reach the day where 98 is no longer welcome, just delete it.

_____________________________

I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 25
For all the griping about Windows - 1/26/2003 11:52:30 AM   
KG Erwin


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My 4 yr old system runs on the basic Win98--not SE, which on PCs at my workplace is plain useless in a network. My new work PC has Win 2000, which is basically NT with bells & whistles-- so far, it plain sucks as far as user friendliness is concerned. All in all, I think the old Win98 is still the most stable & reliable OS yet devised for a home PC. It's truly a shame that Microsoft dropped the ball in OS development with 98SE and Win 2000. That being said, is XP as reliable & userfriendly as Win98?

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Post #: 26
- 1/26/2003 12:08:46 PM   
Veldor


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[QUOTE]Originally posted by pasternakski
[B]No kiddin'? I'd love to move this over to my good pooter instead of having to fire up the old 200mhz mmx box. Did you have to do anything special to get it to run? What's your configuration? [/B][/QUOTE]

AH's Advanced Civilization ran fine for me under XP as is. Even the original version. Sound I believe you need to load the DOS-style Sound Blaster compatible drivers (I really dont remember)... Right now sound doesnt work at all for me in the game, but I know I had it working on my last XP machine before I built this one.

Even without the sound its a satisfactory replacement for the boardgame.. Mess around with the sound drivers enough and you should get it to work. I seem to remember having to select "soundblaster 100% compatible" in the game config even though Im running a much better card (ie. you cant select SB16 for instance.) Or at least that was my experience with it.

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Post #: 27
Re: For all the griping about Windows - 1/26/2003 12:13:32 PM   
Veldor


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From: King's Landing
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by KG Erwin
[B]My 4 yr old system runs on the basic Win98--not SE, which on PCs at my workplace is plain useless in a network. My new work PC has Win 2000, which is basically NT with bells & whistles-- so far, it plain sucks as far as user friendliness is concerned. All in all, I think the old Win98 is still the most stable & reliable OS yet devised for a home PC. It's truly a shame that Microsoft dropped the ball in OS development with 98SE and Win 2000. That being said, is XP as reliable & userfriendly as Win98? [/B][/QUOTE]

The only thing non-userfriendly about XP is the fact that it isn't Win98. So you will have to learn where a few things have been moved, and get use to a few difference. That would be true of any good upgrade though. Otherwise XP is lightyears ahead of Windows98 in stability, "friendliness", and so on.. Its shares the NT/2000 Codebase, not the 9x one. 9x and all its code is dead forever.

And that it is a good thing, not just for Microsoft, but for everyone.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 28
- 1/26/2003 4:01:15 PM   
Wallenstein

 

Posts: 93
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: Austria
Status: offline
From the wargames I played, my favourites are(in no particular order):

Nato Commander
V for victory series
Stalingrad(World at war)
Combat Mission 1, 2
Fire Brigade
Eastern Front
West Front (both Talonsoft)
Close Combat 2
TAO2


For the future, I´m waiting impatiently for Korsun Pocket and would love to acquire SPWAW, but as a modem user, the download time doesnt´look very appealing to me.
:(

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 29
- 1/26/2003 6:13:58 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Shadow
[B]Thanks Marc, very helpful as a computer upgrade is near. I'm so paranoid about XP playing my older games, i'm thinking of bringing 98se along with me. Thanks

Also are you a moderator? [/B][/QUOTE]

No problem, don´t worry upgrading to XP, I have yet to find one of my old games that does not run with XP, even my old IBM version ofKampfgruppe runs without a flaw ;)

I´m one of the administrators of this board, that´s inlcuding moderating.

_____________________________


(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 30
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