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Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 11/29/2013 8:53:40 PM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Hi,
Su-7 was used in many conflicts in different regions, I am happy that it is in CMANO Cold War database, but if you see examples below mayby you update/change some data in next update...

Example:
CMANO CW database: Su-7BMK Fitter A loadout "6x FAB-500M-54 GPB 2x 620 liter Drop Tank" looks impossible in compare with:
"Aerofax - Sukhoi Su-7 -17 -20 -22" page 18 (picture attached)

and

CMANO CW database: Su-7BKL Fitter A loadout "2x 400 liter Drop Tank /.../ 2x 1200 liter Drop Tank" looks impossible in compare with:
"Aerofax - Sukhoi Su-7 -17 -20 -22" page 24 (picture attached)

and

CMANO CW database: Su-7 series ranges "1025 +10% with 2x 620 liter Drop Tank" in compare with
"OKB Sukhoi A history of the Design Bureau and its Aircraft" page 107 (picture attached)

CMANO data:
if 1025 ferry range is in KM then 1025+10%=1127,5 KM looks like real clean range but it is probably in NMI (1025NMI+10% = 1898km+10%) and its too much even with 2x PTB-600

thanks to all who read this and think about this

PS: sorry for my english



Attachment (1)
Post #: 1
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 11/30/2013 6:42:14 AM   
El Savior

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Here's another source if it helps.





Source: Modern Aircraft Armament, Christopher Chant, 1988

< Message edited by El Savior -- 11/30/2013 7:44:28 AM >

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El Savior

(in reply to rafale)
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Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 11/30/2013 3:22:30 PM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Hi,
at the begining BIG THANKS for "El Savior" for reply and printscreens - very useful

now I will be very happy if someone from CMANO team read this topic and maybe in next update we will see new fixed Su-7 loadouts and ranges...

if we all help just a little (infos, sources) excellent CMANO will be better and better after each update

(in reply to El Savior)
Post #: 3
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 11/30/2013 3:46:44 PM   
El Savior

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 7/31/2003
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Thanks. Nice to help. In same books there's dozens of pictures like this. I can scan if more is needed for other aircraft.

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El Savior

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Post #: 4
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 11/30/2013 11:26:05 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks guys.

Logged to be fixed.

Mike

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Post #: 5
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/1/2013 3:06:13 PM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Thanks Mike for this info
now Im happy like my 1 year old baby:)

more posts like this and CMANO will be more ... deadly realistic:)

El Savior - thanks for help offer, maybe soon I will start new post
my next targets:

A-6 Intruder ferry range:
CMANO: 2850+10% with 3x300gal EFT
should be 2850NMI but with 5x300gal EFT - source: Standard Aircraft Characteristics A-6E TRAM

MiG-25R/RB series ferry range:
CMANO: 1850+10% with 1x5280Lit EFT
should be max 2900KM with 1x5280Lit EFT (subsonic 0,85Ma)
and max 2400KM with 1x5280Lit EFT (supersonic 2,35Ma)

now I collecting sources and looking for time to scan

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 6
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/4/2013 7:47:02 PM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		Hi thanks updating the SU-7 as I type on the other lappy

_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to rafale)
Post #: 7
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/5/2013 7:11:07 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Have updated the Su-7s:

6x 500kg bomb loadouts deleted.
2x drop tanks + 4x 500kg bombs changed to 2x drop tanks + 2x 500kg bombs.

Thanks

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to .Sirius)
Post #: 8
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/5/2013 7:21:14 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		When it comes to Su-7 range, the sources say nothing about flight profile and speed. Entering fuel qty, fuel burn rates, etc into the editor it seems likely that the ferry range at optimum speed and altitude is longer than 510-700km.

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

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Post #: 9
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/5/2013 7:45:25 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rafale
MiG-25R/RB series ferry range:
CMANO: 1850+10% with 1x5280Lit EFT
should be max 2900KM with 1x5280Lit EFT (subsonic 0,85Ma)
and max 2400KM with 1x5280Lit EFT (supersonic 2,35Ma)

now I collecting sources and looking for time to scan


Okay it won't really matter as the drag/weight penalties negate the range mods (once we get that implemented, which hopefully won't be long), but I've updated the ferry ranges accordingly.

Thanks again

_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to rafale)
Post #: 10
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/7/2013 9:34:03 AM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		To emsoy - thanks for messages

about su-7 bm/bkl cruise speed is about 0.82Ma at high (probably 11000m)
max. ferry
2xPTB-600 + 2xPTB-900 (capacity 620lit and 950lit)
or 4xPTB-600 (cant find with which EFT configuration) :
* su-7bmk - 1875km / total flight time 2,17h
* su-7bkl - 1630km / total flight time 2,0h
pictures attached

and now we know that
su-7bmk clean 1135km (3000kg/3650lit fuel), ferry 1875km (internal + 2480lit or +3140lit)
su-7bkl clean 1000km (3220kg/3955lit fuel), ferry 1630km (internal + 2480lit or +3140lit)
su-7bkl has more fuel and less range because is about 727kg heavier

about MiG-25RB
as I wrote before, now I attached scan - everything is in polish, but its easier to translate then russian cyrilic:)
if you want to translate something from polish I can do that

thanks for all updates/fixes you will make after my posts

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 11
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/7/2013 9:37:31 AM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		I forgot to upload attachment in previous reply

pictures from:

"from samolotypolskie.pl - Suchoj Su-7.htm"
samolotypolskie.pl - Suchoj Su-7.htm

"Su-7 with 2xPTB600 and 2xPTB900"
samolotypolskie.pl - Suchoj Su-7.htm

"MiG-25RB data"
Lotnictwo 6/2010 page 45

"su7_table"
menstream.pl/lotnictwo


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rafale -- 12/7/2013 10:53:04 AM >

(in reply to rafale)
Post #: 12
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/29/2013 11:09:13 AM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Hi,
after 3 weeks from my post su-7 was updated only by renaming impossible 6xFAB-500 variant to "ZZZ 6xFAB-500", ferry ranges still too much...and another thing: su-7b cannot be fitted with 6 pylons, additional 5 and 6 pylon (250kg max each) were mounted firstly in su-7bkl and later were also attached to older su--7bmk to increase weapon and fuel load

BTW: one seat version of F/A-18 has still the same ranges as two seat version, the fuel capacity is different, so ranges cannot be the same...

Thanks for all updates, and Happy New Year to everyone:)

(in reply to rafale)
Post #: 13
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/29/2013 12:46:42 PM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hi can you confirm the database version you are using and what entry?

Thanks!

Mike

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(in reply to rafale)
Post #: 14
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/29/2013 11:08:14 PM   
rafale

 

Posts: 18
Joined: 10/20/2013
Status: offline 		Command v1.02 Build 480
Cold War Database Build 402


soviet union
#650 - Su-7B Fitter A
impossible variants:

* 6xFAB-250 (should be only 4, B-version has only 4 hardpoints)

* 6xS-24B 240mm Rocket (should be only 4, B-version has only 4

hardpoints)

* 4xFAB-250 2x400 liter Drop Tank (should be only 4xFAB-250 or

2xFAB-250 and 2x600 liter drop tank)

I have never seen 400liter drop tank for Su-7, if you have any

sources give me a link please


soviet union
#189 - Su-7BKL Fitter A
impossible variants:

* 2xFAB-250 2x400 liter Drop Tank (should be 2xFAB-500 and 2x600

liter drop tank)

* 2x1200 liter Drop Tank 2xRU-57 (should be 1xRU-57 and 2x900

liter drop tank) - nuclear weapon attached on fuselage and 2

biggest ETF PTB-900 /capacity 950liter/

1 NOT 2 NUC, 1 plane - 1 bomb - 1 mission - old times:)

I have never seen 1200liter drop tank for Su-7, if you have any

sources give me a link please

PTB-1150 tank was introduced later on Su-17 family


soviet union
#176 - Su-7BMK Fitter A
strange and impossible variants:

* "ZZZ FAB-500M-54 GPB" 6xFAB-500M-54 GPB

* "ZZZ RBK-500 Cluster Bombs" 6xRBK-500 PTAB-1M CB


soviet union
#167 - Su-7BM Fitter A
strange and impossible variants:

* "ZZZ FAB-500M-54 GPB" 6xFAB-500M-54 GPB

* "ZZZ RBK-500 Cluster Bombs" 6xRBK-500 PTAB-1M CB


and as always - ranges - different version, different fuel

capacity but the same ranges...

if you need some info, I attached in previous posts



next

F/A-18
Command v1.02 Build 480
DB3000 Database Build 402

united states
all F/A-18C variants - ferry range 1950 + 10%res
and
all F/A-18D variants - ferry range also 1950 + 10%res


F/A-18 A and C version
internal fuel 1670 gal + 3x330gal = 2660gal total

in TWO seats version place for second seat is provided by a

relocation of avionic equipment and a 6% reduction in internal

fuel. Should be at least 6% difference between A, C-version range

and B, D-version

F/A-18 B and D version
1670gal - 6% = ca. 1570gal + 3x330 gal = ca. 2560gal total

it gives 100 gal difference and about 6% from 1950 is 117, so two seat version ferry should be theoretically about 1833, but in real life even less

(in reply to mikmykWS)
Post #: 15
RE: Su-7 BM/BMK/BKL data - 12/30/2013 3:07:03 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks request updated

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Post #: 16
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