Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA)

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Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA)

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Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/8/2013 2:33:32 PM

TulliusDetritus

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1.02 patch.

Well, usual moves.

1) Harper's Ferry has been captured
2) I ordered my forces to attack and grab (if possible) Winchester and Leesburg
3) Lyon's hordes will try to storm Rolla. Other forces go after Jefferson
4) Patterson will press the left flank of the Shenandoah Valley
5) Cavalry (2 regiments => two objectives) will move into enemy territory in the Potomac area: I want to destroy rail lines

And finally, this time I am not neglecting the naval programme and the regional decisions. Each turn (two so far) I save money to buy 1 ocean transport (money money money) and I use the "clear", "telegraph" etc etc.

And now let the massacres begin!

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/14/2013 12:18:03 PM

Q-Ball

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Any updates?

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/15/2013 12:57:50 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Early August 1861

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Any updates?

Yes

Well, my forces grabbed Leesburg (in the Potomac) and Rolla and Jefferson in Missouri.

And no, I am not really petending to capture Manassas (screenshot). But the big enemy stack (Beauregard that is) left the place and moved to Clarke region. That makes me think he is planning agressive moves in the Shenandoah Valley thing ie he might be planning to kick me out of even Harper's Ferry (who knows).

So I am sending McDowell to threaten his main supply depot in the area and rail juncture aka Manassas.

In theory Beauregard should turn around and I predict he will certainly kick McDowell's private parts

McClellan is finally at Alexandria and Lincoln should soon kick him upstairs. Still, if I manage to capture Manassas, wouldn't I be spoiling everything ie McClellan would not get his well deserved promotion?

Anyways he better reacts because a big Rebel stack is besieged (CV > 400). It would be really nice to annihilate this mob.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/15/2013 1:10:14 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In West Virginia Floyd -again

- apparently wants to stay and we can't have that.

I have two stacks in the state. BUT I am throwing to the fight the two Michigan brigades and Ohio forces idle in their theater.

Again, I should try to encircle him, to convince him to peacefully leave the place. Or else...

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/15/2013 1:26:41 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And interesting developments in the Illinois-Missouri border (or Mississippi River)

Marquo is learning quickly, and this I knew

Two options (and maybe I am wrong):

1) he is planning agressive moves let's say capturing Saint Louis and Cairo (or both)
2) now that he knows better maybe he is indirectly trying to protect Missouri (my phase two = grabbing Springfield and thus securing the whole state before the end of the year).

Because the thing is, these agressive moves will force me to redirect forces I planned to send to assist Lyon's hordes (now NE of Springfield: first assault failed, see next post) to Saint Louis area instead. Basically idle Indiana forces.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/15/2013 1:45:56 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And Missouri.

This time Marquo sent a respectable force with a leader to Springfield. I already tried to storm the place with a mere 1:1 but in my opinion we have to be bold here. Had I won, maybe now I could say Missouri is in my hands. And that's what matters. That's my objective.

Now I will gather the forces NE of the town and I should be trying another big, coordinated attack/s = with the Missouri regular brigade (the one in Lexington) + artillery + supply wagon. I mean, before the end of the year. In other words, in theory I should be trying minimum one attack.

But events in the east (Saint Louis) are more important so we never know.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/15/2013 2:04:02 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Anyway, when McDowell arrived to Manassas he actually defeated a Confederate force (now besieged).

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 2:28:21 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Late August 1861

First of all, see the screenshot above again (McDowell victory).

Looks like I was having problems with my email server: Marquo had sent the turn but for some reason I did not get it.

I had received the turn BUT I had a proposition to make to him

I never registered at AGEOD but I regularly read the threads there these last 4 or 5 years. I discovered an important rule: stacks MUST defend outside structures, NEVER inside. If things go wrong, a big force can be annihilated a la 6 Armee at Stalingrad.

So when I saw what happened in Manassas, I proposed to Marquo to LIFT the siege aka McDowell would leave the area. As simple as that. After all he obviously ignored this golden rule. And then people are already saying the Union is stronger.

To add insult to injury (look again the screenshot, McDowell victory above that is), had the whole force (Huger's Force, circa 10.000 men now trapped in Manassas) been OUTSIDE McDowell would have never won this battle methinks. And let's imagine he would have won, the enemy stack could have stayed the same in the area

In other words, lifting the siege is the fair thing to do on my book. I am not interested in the Darwinian side of things. I play for fun and try to put the fair play, fun on the table. Always.

But the thing is, Marquo says the trapped men in Manassas left the place

They're indeed trapped (screenshot). So I am still waiting for an answer from him: do I lift the siege or not?

In the end, I know he actually can defeat McDowell. But make no mistake, this is a pre-move screenshot. I plan to reinforce McDowell en masse (and level 2 fortifications now). So if that fails (worst scenario) the men trapped in Manassas would be dead the same. And I want to avoid that because again... they should have NEVER been trapped there in the first place.

Not to mention that he has basically stripped the Shenandoah Valley to reinforce Manstein ie Beauregard (the guy who was supposed to relieve the 6 Armee).

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 2:55:01 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In West Virginia history repeats itself. I am throwing the Ohio forces against Floyd

These very same forces won me the state on the other game.

From the southwest, the Michigan forces (2 brigades from that state that is) are starting to close the ring.

Obviously, I doubt Marquo wants to stay. I guess he is merely attracting enemy forces. Fair enough. I want this state the same, just like Missouri, before the end of the year.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 3:08:03 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In the west I really thought I would be seeing a big catastrophe when I opened the turn. I thought Saint Louis itself would be minimum besieged. Only a regular regiment + artillery dug there (CV < 80)... Therefore I desperately assembled everything, militias from Iowa and Minnessota included.

But given that I doubted this was enough I ordered Lyon to turn around with the bulk of the forces that should be storming Springfield in Missouri, thus weakening my Terminator plan = phase 1 + phase 2 in Missouri

And despite all of this, I think Marquo should have tried to storm Saint Louis. He said on the email that he planned to raid the place but changed his mind when he saw many (weak though some of them) units railed to the city.

The thing is he would have possibly arrived to Saint Louis before all my forces had arrived.

I would have striked but maybe I am way too reckless and agressive. He attacked and grabbed Chester instead, a minor prize

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 3:26:00 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And finally, Missouri or phase 2: Springfield.

As I had said, Marquo's moves could have very well saved Springfield after all. Because the force that should storm this city has been weakened, stripped. Sumner is still NE of the city. It's a "core" unit at least: leader + regular infantry + cavalry + artillery + wagon train.

But the enemy is entrenched, it's a mere 1:1.

Whatever, adventurism is totally harmless in this theater. IF I manage to win and dislodge the enemy I win *everything*. I don't think I will wait for reinforcements. September aka the autumn aka rasputitsa is around the corner.

Adventurism is the word!

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 7:55:14 PM

TulliusDetritus

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This is really crazy

Marquo says the unit trapped in Manassas is outside. From the email:

"I must be missing something. The stack which was in Manassas is now outside
of Manassas, so it should not dissolve if attacked; it should be able to
retreat. It is does dissolve then I am really not getting this game at all.
Please make your move as you will; if it does dissolve then you will please
explain to me why and we can redo that part of the turn"

Alrite then: McDowell and his chums are railed to Alexandria: one day to get there, only one day in Manassas then. In theory they should not be assaulting Manassas (plundering and pillage will have to wait). If they do, not my fault

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 9:11:29 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Early september 1861

Well, just when I clicked on the end turn, the Huger's force automagically appeared OUTSIDE of Manassas (as Marquo had said). McDowell reached Alexandria via train. Oh well, after all, this way I make sure McClellan gets his promotion (Manassas not grabbed = Lincoln tantrum = baby McClellan gets the toys and McDowell is sent to his corner).

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 9:24:30 PM

TulliusDetritus

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West Virginia.

What did Marx (the German, not the American with the fake painted moustache) say?

"History repeats itself, the first as tragedy, then as farce..."

And yes... again, the Ohio forces trashed Floyd. But this time, I am going to pursue this guy, I want to annihilate him. Serves him right!

The Ohio forces (strategic reserves at the moment), wonderfully did their job. Now they will be inmediately sent to Cairo, Illinois area (see next dangerous events). Dabai dabai!

edit: anyone noticed Floyd is possibly the only leader without moustache? What a weirdo, freak

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 9:41:36 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And the dangerous events.

Cairo, Illinois. That is Marquo's obvious objective

The good news is that

1) Ohio forces (10.000 men) will soon arrive
2) on next turn I will have in this area like 5 or 6 regular brigades (recruited)

In fact I also have a surplus of men in Saint Louis. They should help too Wallace (the guy entrenched in Cairo).

Also note Marquo 100% controls the river. I will soon have 8 gunboat squadrons. But now, I can't contest his supremacy along the Mississippi.

The Union leader you see NE of Cairo was commanding a cavalry unit chasing enemies pasturing in Indiana. Along with the Ohio leader, he should command the units (regular brigades) I mentioned above.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/21/2013 9:57:05 PM

TulliusDetritus

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And no matter what happens in the east, in Missouri I'm on Terminator mode. No one will stop me from trying to grab Springfield!

I had ordered Lyon and the Kansas Cavalry (both in Saint Louis) to join Sumner (the latter ordered to advance towards Springfield). A good leader and some reinforcements I could spare that is.

But Marquo had his own plans. He decided that a good attack is the best defence. So he ordered his leader to advance NE of the city, to engage my hordes. He's been obviously defeated and that won't save him now!

No matter what, Lyon's hordes (atrocious cohesion but who said the war is not dirty, who is expecting a tennis match here eh) are ordered to advance and assault once for all Springfield!

Needless to say, the militiamen he's sent to capture Jefferson will not stop me either.

No surrender!

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/22/2013 1:27:05 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Ok then

We are redoing the turn because definitely Huger was NOT trapped in Manassas. He was well outside (despite my game says he was inside, besieged).

The important thing here was NOT reinforcing Wallace in Cairo

Only a single militia regiment was already railed to join Wallace's force. And of course not moving my forces in Saint Louis to block the enemy either. Or sending reinforcements to the area. In other words, to have what I have above (screenshot of Cairo area). Which was 100% done.

And of course doing what I had ordered (in West Virginia and Missouri).

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/22/2013 1:42:15 PM

TulliusDetritus

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In West Virginia poor Floyd was trashed the same... again... and again ... and again

But in Missouri things went different. Lyon and the Kansas Mounted Volunteers were ordered to join Sumner the same (who was himself ordered to advance towards Springfield as you may remember).

The thing is Price (the leader Marquo ordered to advance NE to meet my forces) caught Lyon ALONE

The Kansas volunteers were apparently annihilated because poof... *gone*... *vanished*... and Lyon narrowly escaped death and is now recovering injuries in Saint Charles (two turns locked). Sumner avenged this affront though and trashed Price who's back to Springfield. The Terminator is on his way the same.

Anyway, Huger also annihilated 2 brigades (1-element + 3-elements) sent to Manassas to reinforce McDowell. This does not make a lot of sense. These units are supposed to come from the rear, through a portion of land you control (95% MC, McDowell's army, at least in theory).

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/22/2013 2:03:48 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Anyway, this is how the Potomac looks like. McDowell in Manassas along with The Ghost aka Huger's Force.

Again, I am more interested in keeping Beauregard busy. I don't think he can ignore this threat and charge like a bull in let's say the Valley. If Manassas falls in my hands, in theory the whole Shenandoah Valley should sooner or later come next.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/23/2013 2:16:42 PM

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I am just guessing, but I think Huger stack was not inside Manassas structure at all. He was maybe in passive posture outside the city after the lost battle. You were only besieging a lone militia in the structure. There was no need from you to go back to Alexandria. Just switching to passive posture would lift the siege.

The battle was on 12th day, not enough time for Huger to retreat outside of the region.

< Message edited by Ace1 -- 12/23/2013 3:17:46 PM >

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/23/2013 6:13:00 PM

TulliusDetritus

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I can't believe it

Now the Irish Brigade (an elite unit with MANY elements) has been ANNIHILATED when they were sent to Manassas to reinforce McDowell

WT..???

It is as if McDowell was surrounded (despite a 95% MC)!! Whilst we are at it, if the enemy can block any of my units whilst my "surrounded" big army can't do anything, hell, supply should not pass either!!

On last turn the same with two brigades! But the Irish Brigade is an irreplaceable unit! I want somebody's head!!

Rant over

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/23/2013 7:29:43 PM

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What posture where your reinforcements?

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/24/2013 10:35:53 AM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ace1

What posture where your reinforcements?

Blue or green posture, I can't remember

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/24/2013 2:22:15 PM

TulliusDetritus

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I'm curently at work and won't be doing a lot: 24 december dinner and 25 december lunch. HAHA, bring the food and booze

If we except the Irish Brigade massacre, ordeal

it's been a very successful turn. Way too successful on my book. Manassas is in Union hands. Both Huger the Ghost and then Beauregard (he came back, as predicted) brutally attacked McDowell. We trashed the lot of them. The Shenandoah Valley is now open and should soon fall in my hands too.

In Cairo area, I assembled a force under Halleck (with forces from Saint Louis joined en route by other forces) with follow orders (the enemy leader north of Cairo). They engaged them, lost, I knew they had zero chances to defeat the enemy BUT now that enemy force is NOT a threat anymore. And that's what matters. That bought me one turn, and I just needed that. Now I can pour a lot of regular brigades into Cairo area.

And in Missouri he he, Springfield was assaulted and captured. You have to be stubborn here

Yes, the Union is too strong. I prefer much more what happened on the first game. I had less men (but didn't you say that's what happened in the real thing when war started?), but by concentrating forces (and recruiting lots of regular brigades in the Potomac Area) I could more or less manage to survive.

If I well understood, the Rebels were still in Harper's Ferry by 1864. I really doubt this can happen on the game.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/24/2013 3:38:28 PM

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Harper's Ferry swithched hands frequently up to 63, but most of the time it was in Union hands.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/24/2013 3:58:40 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ace1

Harper's Ferry swithched hands frequently up to 63, but most of the time it was in Union hands.

Yes, but in end the Union had to kick the rebels out on 1864. Goes to show that was not a walk in the park. And I am about to control the whole Valley before the end of 1861. I can't see a McArthuresque "I shall return". I'm afraid there won't be anyone to kick out on 1862.. 63... 64...

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/30/2013 4:09:00 PM

TulliusDetritus

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I will soon upload some screenshots. Late september IIRC (I'm at work). We were finally kicked out of Manassas. We came back and they threw us again

The thing is I am er... stubborn so I am planning to keep sending big armies there until the winter arrives.

As predicted, the whole Shenandoah Valley fell in my hands. I would love to end the year with these gains (Missouri + West Virginia + Shenandoah Valley). That's why I have to be stubborn and keep pouring troops into Manassas. To keep the big fat rebel stack busy that is

If he pays attention to Manassas he won't be counter-attacking in the Valley. In theory!

Cairo is besieged, Grant withdrew to Metropolis. But the forces I gathered north of Cairo should take care of the enemy. So even if they manage to grab Cairo I am pretty certain I will easily recapture the place.

In Missouri, Marquo is sort of following my stubborn strategy. His defeated leader Price was ordered to advance to Springfield again (in my hands, remember). 1:1 but if I were him I would try to dislodge the Union force (just like I dislodged the Confederacy)

And in the "Far West" (Kansas and beyond), he is pouring countless hordes.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/30/2013 5:20:01 PM

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Yes, the Union is too strong. I prefer much more what happened on the first game. I had less men (but didn't you say that's what happened in the real thing when war started?), but by concentrating forces (and recruiting lots of regular brigades in the Potomac Area) I could more or less manage to survive.

Actually, the changes that were made shouldn't make alot of difference by fall of 1861. Union can build by then a few more units than before, but not a ton more.

I think your success in VA has more to do with what looks like a deliberate choice by Marquo; he committed alot of resources early to Cairo area. As CSA, you can choose to go entirely the other way; with KY neutral, you can make all your builds in VA, and just do minimal builds in TN, since the only areas open are New Madrid and Island 10, places that require Union Naval superiority which isn't there in early 1861.

His expedition in Illinois is costing him dearly elsewhere; that's my take

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 12/30/2013 6:20:40 PM >

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/30/2013 6:49:32 PM

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I just finished a game as the Union vs. the AI. I was doing my best to take it slow and let it respond to my moves.

I thought I was way behind in troops. The only trouble was that when I leisurely laid siege to Richmond in the winter of 61 and waited to the CSA to respond. They didn�t. It surrendered early Feb 62. It turned out that I had 7 times the manpower. It was not blowing money on the weird and unnecessary either.

It is not so much the Union being overpowered as it is the South is much underpowered. Halving the resources from Richmond early on, or for ever, is too much with the other changes made.

A human may do a better job of concentrating his forces at key moments or locations but in the end they will just be swamped, and I don�t mean in 64.

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RE: Round 2: McClellan is back! Oh nooo! vs Marquo (CSA) - 12/30/2013 6:58:27 PM

Q-Ball

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Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ol Choctaw

I just finished a game as the Union vs. the AI. I was doing my best to take it slow and let it respond to my moves.

I thought I was way behind in troops. The only trouble was that when I leisurely laid siege to Richmond in the winter of 61 and waited to the CSA to respond. They didn�t. It surrendered early Feb 62. It turned out that I had 7 times the manpower. It was not blowing money on the weird and unnecessary either.

It is not so much the Union being overpowered as it is the South is much underpowered. Halving the resources from Richmond early on, or for ever, is too much with the other changes made.

A human may do a better job of concentrating his forces at key moments or locations but in the end they will just be swamped, and I don�t mean in 64.

I do think the last changes were a bit of an overcorrection; a move in the right direction, for sure, but a bit of an overcorrect

Eventually, the CSA should get swamped. It takes awhile to move, but once moved, I wonder if there is a snowball effect, since the US can use any production it takes away from the South, even the recruits.

I would recommend a handful of changes:
1. Un-Blockade Richmond. As others have said, Tredegar works doesn't care if there is a blockade
2. Add $1 to per turn take for each Plantation. One thing about the Plantations, they are mostly placed far inland where it's difficult for the Union to get to them. (Don't add $1 to the Farmlands, though)
3. CSA is short of early 2* leaders. Auto-promote Hardee, Bragg, and Van Dorn. This was not done before for balance purposes, but I can see no reason not to do so now. All 3 were early Corps commanders prior to any battle experience

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(in reply to Ol Choctaw)

Post #: 30

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