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Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 7:30:18 AM

Blutch

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From the beginning of 1942, I received full stacks of VVS airbase.
Actually, I got more fighters squadrons than supply (IL4).
How can I influence the reinforcement in order to receive IAP ?

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 8:20:46 AM

loki100

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From: Utlima Thule
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I think what you are seeing is the response to the loss of the SAD bases. You get some more if you have an average of 6+ squadrons per air base. You could disband them but you will need them by late 1942. I forget quite when but the Soviets shift to a 40 plane squadron model and you'll need every base you can have to make effective use of your airpower (or you will suffer horrendous attrition due to being over the support limits)

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 9:30:30 AM

Blutch

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I don't understand what you mean concerning air support limit. So, you think that I shouldn't fill in my airbases, in order to gain more Shad or IAP airbase ?
At this time I have got ten or twenty empty VVS airbases.
I read somewhere that VVS is best use to execute supply missions and partisan support, is that right ?

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 10:22:45 AM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Blutch

I don't understand what you mean concerning air support limit. So, you think that I shouldn't fill in my airbases, in order to gain more Shad or IAP airbase ?
At this time I have got ten or twenty empty VVS airbases.
I read somewhere that VVS is best use to execute supply missions and partisan support, is that right ?

each airbase has a support limit, if you look you'll see two numbers like 240/239. The support capacity comes in part from the Air HQ so if you add too many bases to one HQ then this will drop. If you exceed that number (and you can see it vary as you add or subtract squadrons - test this by opening one of the scenarios and play around a bit), then you get more attrition and generally your airforce is less effective.

The value of the VVS alters as the game goes on. Up to late 1941 there is a malus on bombing effectiveness but again its still useful, especially for key attacks. Run a bombing run before you attack, that will disrupt some of the enemy and disrupted elements take no part in combat (again you can test this, set the combat resolution to the lowest level - 5 - and watch, you'll see the detailed interaction of weapons systems).

You get airbases built for you if your average squadron/base is more than 6:1. What you'll find by late 1942 is the VVS shifts from units of about 20 to around 40. At that stage, especially for the heavier bombers (Il-4s), you can't have many at a given base or you'll exceed the support limit (even worse for the lend-lease planes who are more demanding of support).

I think the partisan war waxes and wanes as it did historically. If you can get it up and running in early Autumn 1941 you can do some real damage as the axis will mostly have single rail lines supplying an army group. For 1942-3, you'll find they have multiple lines so partisan attacks are an irritant. However, from 1943 on what you can do is prioritise supply to partisans in a particular sector in the hope that the rails get cut and slow any axis redeployment (in effect what the Soviets did on the eve of Bagration).

So the air war is important, just not brilliantly modelled in WiTE and sometimes its a bit hard to see the feedback loops.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 10:24:47 AM

carlkay58

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VVS is the only airbase which will allow flying the partisan supply missions.

When the Soviet airbases average six or more air groups the Soviets will receive one RANDOM airbase. There is no controlling what you get.

Despite the names, the Soviet airbases that you will receive are all the same with the exception of the VVS ones.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 11:38:31 AM

loki100

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sorry I think I misunderstood your question (mixing up the concept of the VVS airbase with the Soviet acronym for the entire airforce - VVS).

As above, you get airbases once you have more than 6 squadrons/base but the title of the base is at random.

For the most part this is just flavour, any base can support fighters or bombers you intend to use in support of Red Army operations. For partisan supply the manual states (17.1.1):

quote:

If those night mission enabled air group units attached to VVS air base units are not sufficient to meet the partisan needs, then transport and level bomber air group units set to night missions and attached to DBAD, AD DD, GAD DD, and GDBAD air base units may be selected by the computer to also transport supplies to partisan units

so if I understand correctly, valid airgroups set to night operations at VVS bases are the first choice for partisan resupply but other airbases are included - the list basically excludes those described (ie IAD) as purely for fighters.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 5:02:52 PM

carlkay58

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It sounds like you are correct. I tend to put sufficient transports and level bombers into the VVS airbases to supply the partisans and thus have never really noticed the others flying before my turn.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/1/2014 9:39:55 PM

Blutch

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Ok I just notice the support limit. And I am overloading my airbases.
But how can I do, I will have too much airbase to attach to my air armies, that will overload my command point ....

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/2/2014 2:26:08 PM

schascha

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quote:

Air headquarters units fulfil the same function as other headquarters units with the exception that they cannot attach any combat units and the only support units that can be attached to air headquarters units are anti-aircraft support units. In addition, there are no limits or penalties related to the number of air base and other air headquarters units that can be attached to air headquarters units.

< Message edited by schascha -- 1/2/2014 3:27:34 PM >

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/2/2014 3:04:22 PM

loki100

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true in the sense they don't cause penalties unlike overloading land commands but my understanding was that the Soviet air HQs sent out support value to the airbases under their command.

This helps offset some of the risk of overloading but its a fairly low number, as:

So in that case the 500 for that aircommand is effectively distributed among its 5 airbases and helps improve their capacity to work effectively?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by loki100 -- 1/2/2014 4:04:44 PM >

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RE: Russian Airbase - 1/2/2014 4:21:28 PM

gingerbread

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Yes and no. The support squads from HQ will help with support for the ground elements in the air base, that is, the AA. The support will not help with the clearance & repair of planes, other than freeing up the support squads of the air base from having to take care of the AA. This is WAD.

Also, RE: Attachment. Each air base counts as 1 CP so it will count towards the Army/AG/Front max CP. I also think that the Air HQ is an army, but have never tried to attach as many as 18 airbases to the same HQ, nor do I see a reason to do so.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/19/2014 3:00:04 PM

jwolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

When the Soviet airbases average six or more air groups the Soviets will receive one RANDOM airbase.

I'm resurrecting this thread from a few weeks ago because I am at this period in my game (Feb 42) and starting to panic at the loss of 12 airbases during February. So if I understand this right what I am supposed to do is to stuff my surviving airbases to an average of at least 6 each, and then I automatically get a new airbase the next turn.

Is it just one base per turn, or do you get exactly the number to reduce the average load to less than 6 per base? And once you get some new bases, can you send some air units back to reserve (to relieve the crowding) or would that run the risk of losing some more bases?

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/19/2014 8:09:27 PM

Denniss

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AFAIR you'll receive one airbase per turn, once it's ready to use you should stuff it with air units to get more air bases.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 9:50:21 AM

carlkay58

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You will get one random airbase type per turn as long as the average of air groups at your existing airbases is six or higher.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 12:47:10 PM

jwolf

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Thanks for the replies. I played the first turn of March 42 in my game last night, and got my first new airbase -- while losing 3 more of the SAD bases. It will take the entire spring and summer of 42 to make up for all the lost bases. :(

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 2:12:42 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

Thanks for the replies.� I played the first turn of March 42 in my game last night, and got my first new airbase -- while losing 3 more of the SAD bases.� It will take the entire spring and summer of 42 to make up for all the lost bases. :(

thats one reason why I've started disbanding the SADs early. Ok its another AP drain but getting the manpower/support/trucks back is good in 41 and in the main the VVS is inefficient so I don't think the lack of airbase capacity is a problem. If you use the U2s and other trash, you can get over 6 per base by late 41/early 42 and start generating the new bases that bit earlier.

but watch out for this, they will hit your truck pool at a time when the winter battles and the need to prepare for the tank corps are going to place an additional demand.

In reality you have till the VVS swaps to the 40 plane units in late 42 to generate all you will need, and it maybe better to spread this process - I'm testing this out in an AI game at the moment.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 3:43:59 PM

jwolf

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So far my truck pool has been fine, but I haven't yet gotten to April 42 and the formation of tank corps. Also I am assuming that the disbanded SAD bases release a bunch of trucks so at least through the spring the airbase drain on trucks should be nonexistent.

Loki, if I read you right then in late 42 each air group shifts to 40 planes and at that point it is prohibitive to cram 6 groups into each airbase. So at that point, I have what I have with regard to airbases and will get no more.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 9:52:08 PM

loki100

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwolf

So far my truck pool has been fine, but I haven't yet gotten to April 42 and the formation of tank corps.� Also I am assuming that the disbanded SAD bases release a bunch of trucks so at least through the spring the airbase drain on trucks should be nonexistent.

Loki, if I read you right then in late 42 each air group shifts to 40 planes and at that point it is prohibitive to cram 6 groups into each airbase.� So at that point, I have what I have with regard to airbases and will get no more.

aye if I recall, once the squadrons are 40 planes you'll struggle to fit 6 fighter/sturmovik squadrons on a base, if I recall I could manage 3 Pe-2s and 2 heavy bombers. So unless you want horrendous operational losses and poor repair rates then whatever you have to hand by late 42 is going to be your total airbase allocation for the rest of the game.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 2/20/2014 10:19:11 PM

carlkay58

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I agree with loki. I disband the SAD airbases as a high priority in the first few turns of the game as Soviets. The manpower and support squad boost helps counter the almost mandatory manpower losses in the opening pockets.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 7/19/2014 6:57:41 PM

Sorta

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Regarding the airbases and PVO mentioned earlier.

Do PVO airbases still only fly interception missions?

If so why keep them as they seem less useful than all other bases?

I searched manual and couldn't find a PVO interception reference.

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RE: Russian Airbase - 7/19/2014 7:08:29 PM

loki100

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yes, air wings at a PVO base will only do intercepts.

Some people disband them precisely for this reason. My solution is to scatter them around the various air commands. It does no harm to have a base essentially for defensive fighter operations as this is an important part of the Soviet air war in 41-42.

The other use for them, esp if your opponent likes to bomb your airbases, is to keep them empty and almost at the front. That way U2s and other short range air units can use the empty base to transit (& thus extend their range) while the actual units are kept relatively safe at the rear.

Having done some experimenting (& I realise this is old advice in a way), my revised OOB for the Soviet airforce is to scrap the Strategic bomber command HQ, but keep 3 of the operational commands (linked to Stavka). I then put the VVS and the PVO bases into this structure and it allows me to move the interceptors and the air units I am using for the partisan war to the sector I am prioritising (or spread them out to get cover all over the front).

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