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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

 
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 4:20:56 PM   
Tomcat84

 

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Starting a new playthrough on your latest update. Couple of small things:
- before making my "last" save I always clear the messagelog, for me this one starts up with a whole bunch of God's eye enabled/disabled messages
- Akrotiri almost all tankers and ELINT have the loadout set, except the last (canadian?) 437 sqn airbus, but on the French and US carrier the Hawkeyes do not, and on Souda Bay I think none of the heavies have their proper loadout set.
- and like someone earlier noted, the ships on scenario start dont have an initial course and are just sitting still which seems a bit odd.

Thats all for now :)

< Message edited by Tomcat84 -- 12/24/2013 5:21:38 PM >


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(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 31
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 4:29:21 PM   
Tomcat84

 

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Also: when you moved the Mudhens all to Souda Bay, did you take a look at the magazines? Cause I think I recall loading a bunch of them up with GBU-31s on the initial version at Crete but now at Souda Bay there's no 31s which means I can only give em 38s or 54s which kind of limits their punch.

edit: and the Super Etendards cannot load their Exocet loadout cause they lack the DECM pod I think. Would like to load a couple of those up just in case I get tangled with some ships

edit 2:

also the scenario starts with a Hamah Strike mission with no units or targets assigned ?

< Message edited by Tomcat84 -- 12/24/2013 5:39:06 PM >


_____________________________

My Scenarios and Tutorials for Command

(Scenarios focus on air-warfare :) )

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Post #: 32
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 4:48:54 PM   
bsq


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Checked the Haweyes and you have 1 ready or readying on each carrier.

Fixed the course/speed of the two task groups

Sorted out Souda

Will do a couple of checks here on events because the skinny one fires too often.

Looking at CdG now for the loads

Hamah was a test mission, should have been deleted.

Edit - gave you 28's instead, do you think 31's are needed as well? There was talk about not being able to destroy the ammo stores?

Edit 2 - well there's strange - appears you have to downgrade your winders if you want 28's

< Message edited by bsq -- 12/24/2013 5:59:33 PM >

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Post #: 33
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/24/2013 5:02:54 PM   
bsq


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Caught most of those now, v0.5b now uploaded

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Post #: 34
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/25/2013 6:15:06 PM   
CV32


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Finished up your 22 Dec version to completion.

Final score was 'Triumph, 2510 points' with no combat losses. (I did lose a KC-10 to the persistent tanker bug).

More comments which I hope you will find helpful, though some may no longer be relevant or have been already addressed:

1. The exclusion zone over Lebanon effectively prevents the best part of the SyAAF from defending their airspace. It acts as a buffer across which I can lob standoff ordnance with impunity. As a result, the SyAAF MiG-29s were a complete non-factor. I destroyed the airbases, IADS and fighter presence in the southern part of the country through the first night, and by midday the SyAAF was gone in its entirety.

2. The ammo bunkers (surface) are extremely tough. I don't know if this was a matter of choosing which target to use, or a DB issue, but they are virtually impervious to destruction. I pounded them with all manner of ordnance, including just about everything at my disposal, from cruise missiles to Mavericks to SLAM to the usual penetrating bombs (BLU-109 et al). You can damage them, but it seems that they will hang on despite the incessant pounding, and eventually expire from fires. In any case, I got bored of pounding on them, otherwise the points would have continued to rack up.

3. Not only are the bunkers (too?) tough, but there are an awful lot of them. Perhaps too many, especially around Hamah. Maybe you should designate a portion which are suspected CW storage if you want to keep them all.

4. The NATO/coalition task force has no replenishment ship. It would be unusual for such a force to deploy without one (or more).

5. The player has an awful lot of ordnance at his disposal. It makes for excellent fun, playing with the expensive toys, but I am not sure how realistic it is to have hundreds upon hundreds of PGMs on hand. Recall how quickly NATO partners began to run out of PGMs during the Libya campaign.

6. Already discussed, but for some reason, the Israelis did not like me shooting at the Syrians and tried to intercept my cruise missiles wherever possible. Often successfully and at extended ranges, even when using stealthy ordnance, so this might be a DB issue as well.

7. It is difficult to destroy the docks at Tartus without the Russian ships incurring some blast damage, even when using the less heavy ordnance. Also, the Slava class cruiser Moskva became hostile early on, despite not being damaged and perhaps only because my missiles were flying too close to her. This might be entirely intentional.

8. There were several 'SA-26' sites. Did you mean to say 'SS-N-26'?

9. The 'pop up' S-300 threat was nicely done, and extremely disconcerting (which is good!) Fortunately for me, I had SEAD packages already enroute into Syria when it happened, and was able to smack down the S-300 sites quickly.

10. The Syrian 'non-military' presence was good, but it didn't feel as though there were enough of them to complicate matters. I would add more.

11. Also, the industrial targets around Damascus were perhaps too easy to pick out and attack amongst the other buildings. Maybe the buildings should also be 'non-military'?

12. There are lots of tankers and AEW&C/ELINT assets available, but I didn't use them much at all. Most of the aircraft (excepting the A-10s) could perform their missions without the need for refueling. All of the extra AEW&C/ELINT and tankers at Souda, for example, remained on the ground the whole time.

There are probably some smaller points I am forgetting, but I hope these are useful to you. Fun scenario!

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 35
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/26/2013 8:23:56 AM   
bsq


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Thanks for the very comprehensive 'debrief' above, it will take me a while to address/fix the issues/points you raise, but here goes...

quote:


1. The exclusion zone over Lebanon effectively prevents the best part of the SyAAF from defending their airspace. It acts as a buffer across which I can lob standoff ordnance with impunity. As a result, the SyAAF MiG-29s were a complete non-factor. I destroyed the airbases, IADS and fighter presence in the southern part of the country through the first night, and by midday the SyAAF was gone in its entirety.


There is still flex to beef up the SyAAF - but I made the the airbases single unit because I did not intend for them to be targets. When I first modelled Syria, I used multi-unit assests, this stopped my CPU dead in its tracks (even when over-clocked - a 3rd Gen I7 with 16 GB of RAM), there were over 4000 AU's even before the missile swarms were in the air... So I need to find a way to keep the player 'on task' - because wiping out SyAAF on the ground, in the first few hours, is not what is intended

quote:

2. The ammo bunkers (surface) are extremely tough. I don't know if this was a matter of choosing which target to use, or a DB issue, but they are virtually impervious to destruction. I pounded them with all manner of ordnance, including just about everything at my disposal, from cruise missiles to Mavericks to SLAM to the usual penetrating bombs (BLU-109 et al). You can damage them, but it seems that they will hang on despite the incessant pounding, and eventually expire from fires. In any case, I got bored of pounding on them, otherwise the points would have continued to rack up.


May have to change the threshold to damaged at say 75%... several have commented on the near impossibilty to destroy these bunkers. Given the images of what single GBU hits did to Iragi HAS and surface bunkers in GW1, I am surprised these are modelled to be so tough.

quote:

3. Not only are the bunkers (too?) tough, but there are an awful lot of them. Perhaps too many, especially around Hamah. Maybe you should designate a portion which are suspected CW storage if you want to keep them all.


This could be fixed by the same method, points for high damage rather than destruction.

quote:

4. The NATO/coalition task force has no replenishment ship. It would be unusual for such a force to deploy without one (or more).


Was toying with the idea, but unrep does not work properly so left it out for the time being.

quote:

5. The player has an awful lot of ordnance at his disposal. It makes for excellent fun, playing with the expensive toys, but I am not sure how realistic it is to have hundreds upon hundreds of PGMs on hand. Recall how quickly NATO partners began to run out of PGMs during the Libya campaign.


Every time someone reports that they 'dismantled Syria' I am thinking this, clearly I assumed 'restraint' - may have to enforce it

quote:

6. Already discussed, but for some reason, the Israelis did not like me shooting at the Syrians and tried to intercept my cruise missiles wherever possible. Often successfully and at extended ranges, even when using stealthy ordnance, so this might be a DB issue as well.


Yep, not sure about this one, may have to switch them off till I get a fix.

quote:

7. It is difficult to destroy the docks at Tartus without the Russian ships incurring some blast damage, even when using the less heavy ordnance. Also, the Slava class cruiser Moskva became hostile early on, despite not being damaged and perhaps only because my missiles were flying too close to her. This might be entirely intentional.


Moskva going hostile is not intentional unless you sink something. It is possible to do this to the docks, its all about weapon choice

quote:

8. There were several 'SA-26' sites. Did you mean to say 'SS-N-26'?


No I meant SA-26 - reporting name for the Pechora 2 M - found in several sources

quote:

9. The 'pop up' S-300 threat was nicely done, and extremely disconcerting (which is good!) Fortunately for me, I had SEAD packages already enroute into Syria when it happened, and was able to smack down the S-300 sites quickly.


S-300 is modelled incorrectly, it would be nigh on impossible to do this simply IRL. The problem is it fires all its missiles stupidly and has 12 in flight before the real shooting starts. I may have to try looking at 3 LST = 3 S-300 Groups...

quote:

10. The Syrian 'non-military' presence was good, but it didn't feel as though there were enough of them to complicate matters. I would add more.


Plan to, your comments here justify the inclusion of them and I want to try to use them to complicate matters further.

quote:

11. Also, the industrial targets around Damascus were perhaps too easy to pick out and attack amongst the other buildings. Maybe the buildings should also be 'non-military'?


The map I used for this showed a lot more units in Adra - I you overlay one, you will see my selection criteria (and know my favourite colour )

quote:

12. There are lots of tankers and AEW&C/ELINT assets available, but I didn't use them much at all. Most of the aircraft (excepting the A-10s) could perform their missions without the need for refueling. All of the extra AEW&C/ELINT and tankers at Souda, for example, remained on the ground the whole time.


Perhaps I approached this from an 'ATO' perspective and didn't reckon on players 'launching the fleet' at Syria. They are there to help you. Tankers to replenish your CAP and HVAA. HVAA to help build the picture. I want to force the player to do a few things, I am still a way from that point...

quote:

There are probably some smaller points I am forgetting, but I hope these are useful to you. Fun scenario!


Thanks once again for your persistence in running it to completion and taking the time for such a thourogh debrief.



< Message edited by bsq -- 12/26/2013 9:24:33 AM >

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 36
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/26/2013 4:27:23 PM   
CV32


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bsq
So I need to find a way to keep the player 'on task' - because wiping out SyAAF on the ground, in the first few hours, is not what is intended


One thing that being involved with Harpoon for 20+ years has taught me, players will do things in your scenarios that you never expected or anticipated.

quote:

Thanks once again for your persistence in running it to completion and taking the time for such a thourogh debrief.


You're quite welcome. Another thought:

Consider adding some neutral shipping and/or biologics. Its virtually an empty sea right now, over which the US/Coalition has complete dominance. Even a whale or lurking Russkie AGI or sub would add some consternation, or perhaps panic!

< Message edited by CV32 -- 12/26/2013 5:27:15 PM >


_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 37
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/27/2013 12:35:26 PM   
Russian Heel


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Slight typo - NSA Souda Bay not NAS Souda Bay. I'm having fun trying to play this as you intended, - not just lauching the fleet and leveling Syria adbiding by the political mandates in the briefing and your work arounds for maintence availability ad not attacking airfields, finding it quite challenging and therefore a lot of fun.

Question on the "spirit" of it. What countries have given me overflight rights? Obviously I assume I can fly the BUFFs over France, Italy, and Greece, but does the No Fly Zone over the Turkish-Syrian border apply to missiles? I'd like to launch CALCMs from over Turkey or even Saudi/Iraq (doubt Egypt ot KSA would go for that) to give a different attack vector and avoid Lebanon's airspace.

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 38
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/27/2013 3:54:50 PM   
bsq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

Slight typo - NSA Souda Bay not NAS Souda Bay. I'm having fun trying to play this as you intended, - not just lauching the fleet and leveling Syria adbiding by the political mandates in the briefing and your work arounds for maintence availability ad not attacking airfields, finding it quite challenging and therefore a lot of fun.

Question on the "spirit" of it. What countries have given me overflight rights? Obviously I assume I can fly the BUFFs over France, Italy, and Greece, but does the No Fly Zone over the Turkish-Syrian border apply to missiles? I'd like to launch CALCMs from over Turkey or even Saudi/Iraq (doubt Egypt ot KSA would go for that) to give a different attack vector and avoid Lebanon's airspace.

You can fly CALCM's, TLAM's etc through the no fly zones, I only applied them to manned aircraft. If you fly them too close to the Israeli PAC-2's they will use them as target practice (not sure why, but they still do it in the latest version).

Not sure it is a typo - Naval Air Station Souda Bay (NAS Souda Bay) - thats what it was called last time I was there

I deliberately did not model Aleppo as assumed it was rebel held at the time of the scenario. Also I have not placed the Southern and Eastern portions of the IADS in full, now if you are going to sneak in through the back door, then I may have to close and bolt it

(in reply to Russian Heel)
Post #: 39
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/27/2013 4:32:36 PM   
Russian Heel


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So is there a different facility? Not being a smart ass, just generally curious.

http://www.militaryinstallations.dod.mil/pls/psgprod/f?p=132:CONTENT:0::NO::P4_INST_ID,P4_INST_TYPE:6095,INSTALLATION

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/us-naval-support-activity-souda-bay/

I know the airfield is shared with the airport and the Greek AF. (Last time I was on Crete I flew in and out of there via sweet Russian charter)

(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 40
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 12/28/2013 2:01:44 PM   
bsq


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Think its the same one, perhaps with a confusion of names.

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Post #: 41
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/3/2014 5:04:29 PM   
bsq


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Added a few more TACSAMs
Altered CAP behaviour
Added Replenishment Vessels to TG's
Tweaked Magazine contents
Commercial shipping added in port area.

< Message edited by bsq -- 1/3/2014 11:33:23 PM >

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Post #: 42
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/3/2014 8:57:48 PM   
JK07

 

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Where can we find the new download? Looks like the one in the original post hasn't been updated since the 27th.

Thanks. Cool scenario.

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Post #: 43
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/3/2014 10:35:33 PM   
bsq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JK07

Where can we find the new download? Looks like the one in the original post hasn't been updated since the 27th.

Thanks. Cool scenario.

Secenario was there, seems I forgot to save the edit with the date change

(in reply to JK07)
Post #: 44
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/4/2014 10:15:15 PM   
Stevechase

 

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Sounds really good. I'll give it a run

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Post #: 45
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/7/2014 4:29:45 PM   
bsq


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Updated to B483

This means the ZSU's now have a capability against CM's should make it a bit more of a challenge....

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Post #: 46
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/7/2014 9:02:23 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Will give it another go in a couple days. Testing Russian Heel's scenario at the moment.


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Post #: 47
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 1/7/2014 9:28:26 PM   
bsq


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Will give it another go in a couple days. Testing Russian Heel's scenario at the moment.



Thanks and BTW I am testing his scenario too - so no updates to this one for a bit...

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Post #: 48
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 2/12/2014 1:15:26 PM   
Dimitris

 

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bump

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Post #: 49
RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014) - 4/5/2014 5:53:15 PM   
MrGandi

 

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Hey bsq,
It's a great scenario but is there a newer version of The Big Stick?
Or when is the final version expected?

I'm new into this game and not experienced in scenario creating. But for me it looks like there are some event triggers not working right. Like Syria doesn't get hostile when my jets attacking it.
My ships are attcked as soon they are in range.



(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 50
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