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RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ?

 
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RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 4:16:29 PM   
aesopo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

The new Infantry v Garrison script settings, I'm play testing. Have the Infantry being twice the size and strength off the Garrison unit.

Infantry costs 20PP, garrison costs 10PP

Infantry costs 12MP, garrison costs 6MP

Infantry upkeep costs 4PP, garrison upkeep costs 2PP

Infantry takes 4 turns to complete, garrison takes 2 turns to complete.

Although very handy,having a new unit built and be available to use, as a fighting unit in 1 turn, or 2 weeks in game terms is ludicrous.Even 2 turns or a month, for a new Garrison unit to be made available, is a short period of time, to create a new fully functioning fighting unit. But having these slight changes makes the gamer plan ahead and think more about what they are doing.


Sounds very good, Kirk. Maybe the "efficiency" rating of newly built infantry units should be lower to start with to represent inexperienced troops. So losses would be very heavy if they were thrown into battle straight away?

Is there a better term than "garrison" we can use for the smaller infantry unit? Would it be a big job to change it?


We should be naming them according to their military designation to represent unit strength and manpower allocated to each unit. Static garrisons - regiments/divisions, garrison- corps, infantry- armies. More realistic for me.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 61
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 4:38:05 PM   
Orm


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Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

While I'm here I'm play testing Battleships with the same range advantage that the Artillery unit gets off 2 hexes, what do you guys think?


I doubt that this is a good idea without changing a lot of other things as well.

If battleships gets a range of two hexes then it will be almost impossible to capture a enemy port with one unit dug in for defence. Regardless of the resources that the attacker commit to attack the port.

Battleships, as they are now, are imperious to land based artillery but they, in turn, crush the land based art. So with increased range then the battleships can pulverize any attempt to give artillery support to the attack against the port.

In my recent attack, as Germany, towards Paris the German units in a coastal hex was more or less put out of action because of bombardment by the Royal Navy. The Schlieffen plan would be impossible to attempt with a two range bombardment.

Battleships bombardment is stronger than artillery yet it costs less than a third in ammo to fire a BB than it does to fire a art.

Previously you could at least protect some part of the coast with friendly artillery but now the only protection against enemy shore bombardment are battleships.

Historically, as I understand it, they were wary to give shore bombardment with battleships since that put the battleships at great risk. Remember that even the Turkish coastal defences won against the the Royal Navy when they tried to force in the Dardanelles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign#Attempt_to_force_the_Straits

So therefore my answer is:No, no, no!


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(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 62
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 4:45:27 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

While I'm here I'm play testing Battleships with the same range advantage that the Artillery unit gets off 2 hexes, what do you guys think?


I doubt that this is a good idea without changing a lot of other things as well.

If battleships gets a range of two hexes then it will be almost impossible to capture a enemy port with one unit dug in for defence. Regardless of the resources that the attacker commit to attack the port.

Battleships, as they are now, are imperious to land based artillery but they, in turn, crush the land based art. So with increased range then the battleships can pulverize any attempt to give artillery support to the attack against the port.

In my recent attack, as Germany, towards Paris the German units in a coastal hex was more or less put out of action because of bombardment by the Royal Navy. The Schlieffen plan would be impossible to attempt with a two range bombardment.

Battleships bombardment is stronger than artillery yet it costs less than a third in ammo to fire a BB than it does to fire a art.

Previously you could at least protect some part of the coast with friendly artillery but now the only protection against enemy shore bombardment are battleships.

Historically, as I understand it, they were wary to give shore bombardment with battleships since that put the battleships at great risk. Remember that even the Turkish coastal defences won against the the Royal Navy when they tried to force in the Dardanelles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallipoli_Campaign#Attempt_to_force_the_Straits

So therefore my answer is:No, no, no!

warspite1

Once again this comes back to one of the earliest ideas for the treatment of naval assets in enemy controlled (or at least contested) waters.

It was suggested that there be zones (similar to the current Green Dots) whereby enemy vessels sailing in those areas run the risk (a dice throw) of taking losses over and above any damage from surface vessels and subs. This reflects mines, torpedo boats and shore batteries. There is no justification for battleships (or cruisers) to be allowed to park themselves off an enemy coast and just blast away to their hearts content impervious.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 63
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 5:18:03 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
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From: Fife Scotland
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[/quote]warspite1

Once again this comes back to one of the earliest ideas for the treatment of naval assets in enemy controlled (or at least contested) waters.

It was suggested that there be zones (similar to the current Green Dots) whereby enemy vessels sailing in those areas run the risk (a dice throw) of taking losses over and above any damage from surface vessels and subs. This reflects mines, torpedo boats and shore batteries. There is no justification for battleships (or cruisers) to be allowed to park themselves off an enemy coast and just blast away to their hearts content impervious.

[/quote]

Yes There is no justification for battleships (or cruisers) to be allowed to park themselves off an enemy coast and just blast away to their hearts content impervious.

With the new scripted port defence strength I'm play testing, even if you park a Battleship right next to a Transport, which is safely tucked up in its home port,if you attack the Transport with the Battleship, then your in for a surprise, because it will be the Battleship that takes very heavy losses.So you are all fore warned,that old tactic just won't work any more. Also the Green Dot Area,will see any foolish ships, attempting to attack, suffer much heavier losses than the Owner of the Green Dot Area.

If you need to fight a Naval battle, make sure its on the high seas, away from any Port or Green Dot Area, exactly where Naval Battles should be fought,just like Jutland, in the North Sea away from land.


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/5/2014 6:43:09 PM >


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Post #: 64
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 5:24:17 PM   
kirk23


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From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aesopo


quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

The new Infantry v Garrison script settings, I'm play testing. Have the Infantry being twice the size and strength off the Garrison unit.

Infantry costs 20PP, garrison costs 10PP

Infantry costs 12MP, garrison costs 6MP

Infantry upkeep costs 4PP, garrison upkeep costs 2PP

Infantry takes 4 turns to complete, garrison takes 2 turns to complete.

Although very handy,having a new unit built and be available to use, as a fighting unit in 1 turn, or 2 weeks in game terms is ludicrous.Even 2 turns or a month, for a new Garrison unit to be made available, is a short period of time, to create a new fully functioning fighting unit. But having these slight changes makes the gamer plan ahead and think more about what they are doing.


Sounds very good, Kirk. Maybe the "efficiency" rating of newly built infantry units should be lower to start with to represent inexperienced troops. So losses would be very heavy if they were thrown into battle straight away?

Is there a better term than "garrison" we can use for the smaller infantry unit? Would it be a big job to change it?


We should be naming them according to their military designation to represent unit strength and manpower allocated to each unit. Static garrisons - regiments/divisions, garrison- corps, infantry- armies. More realistic for me.



Folks I'm sure the powers that be will not be against,changing the names of some off the land units, IE : Garrison & Infantry.

What do you all think about the above suggestion,made by aesopo.

Small Garrison = Regiment?

Garrison = Corps or Division ?

Infantry = Armies ?

I also want to change Battleships - Dreadnoughts officially, in the next patch 1.50!


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/5/2014 6:35:43 PM >


_____________________________

Make it so!

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Post #: 65
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 5:58:34 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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Joined: 12/20/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Folks I'm sure the powers that be will not be against,changing the names of some off the land units, IE : Garrison & Infantry.

What do you all think about the above suggestion,made by aesopo.

Small Garrison = Regiment?

Garrison = Corps or Division ?

Infantry = Armies ?

I also want to change Battleships - Dreadnoughts officially, in the next patch 1.50!



I would go . . .

Small garrison = Garrison

Garrison = Division

Infantry = Corps

The Dreadnought change is absolutely essential. We need pre-dreadnought battleships and destroyers too at some point.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 66
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 6:07:18 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Folks I'm sure the powers that be will not be against,changing the names of some off the land units, IE : Garrison & Infantry.

What do you all think about the above suggestion,made by aesopo.

Small Garrison = Regiment?

Garrison = Corps or Division ?

Infantry = Armies ?

I also want to change Battleships - Dreadnoughts officially, in the next patch 1.50!



I would go . . .

Small garrison = Garrison

Garrison = Division

Infantry = Corps

The Dreadnought change is absolutely essential. We need pre-dreadnought battleships and destroyers too at some point.



Pre-Dreadnoughts already sorted!

Guys these changes,only require some time spent, in altering them anything is possible, I'm willing to make the time to do it, just needs the say so off the powers that be!


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/5/2014 7:07:44 PM >


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Make it so!

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Post #: 67
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 6:28:19 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
Has anyone anything to say about, Russia surviving longer in game now & USA war entry?

Plus if you like the new Submarine script changes that make them much more effective now?

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/5/2014 8:07:26 PM >


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Make it so!

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Post #: 68
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 7:49:51 PM   
warspite1


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Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Has anyone anything to say about, Russia surviving longer in game now & USA war entry?

Plus if you like the new Submarine script changes that make them much more effective now?
warspite1

I have played - or am playing - about 10 games of 1.4 so this is not exactly exhaustive feedback but:

Russia

The biggest problem with 1.3 was that Russian revolution was all too predictably achieved and there was essentially nothing that the Entente player could do against someone who knew that weakness. Furthermore, any such problems for the Russian meant the Romanians would not come in.

USA

The problem - not just with 1.3 - but with all versions since launch, was that the US simply does not come into the game.

Has 1.4 changed either of these?

Russia

Yes, completely but its impossible to say whether the rules concerning Russia are effective because essentially it is seemingly impossible for the Entente to lose - so the conditions are not being tested. The Entente have so many PP that spending them all is a problem. It's simply too easy to rack up artillery ammo, units and research.

In contrast, it's a struggle for the CP to build up ammo stocks or research points, let alone sufficient units to take Paris or Moscow.

As a result, Russia is never in any danger of losing and the Entente win sometime in 1915.

As mentioned previously, to compound the issue for the CP, Bulgaria now fails to appear...

USA

I have noticed no difference to previously. When playing as the CP, because of the problems mentioned above, I have not been able to devote any build points on submarines so have not conducted a U-boat campaign. In one game I have played as the Entente, my opponent is having some success and I have seen the warning about the US not being happy about the situation - so it can be done. I would caveat though that he is the best player I have ever played against. No one else has achieved this or come close.

Sorry if that is pretty negative, but the way I see it 1.4 is simply 1.3 on steroids (except this time its the Entente that cannot lose instead of the CP).



_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 69
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 8:24:17 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
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I have taken the feedback on board, and I have changed a great many things already, that will be included when the hot fix is released any day now.

So what have I changed.

1 : Entente has less PPs.

2 : Central Powers have more PPs.

3 : Garrisons now take 2 turns to build.

4 : Infantry now take 4 turns to build.

5 : Britain Transport capacity reduced to 2. ( still double any other nation )

6 : Artillery,Rail & Transport now costs more to increase their capacity.

7 : Port & Green Area Defence, now much more of a deterrant too attacking forces.

8 : Fighter aircraft from the start off the war, are little more than Air Recon.

9 : Pre-Dreadnought added to the game ( These can't be built,so what you start with thats your lot )

10 : Research has been slowed slightly,even when focused.

11 : Brugge & Small Garrison in Belgium removed from the game.

12 : Infantry unit in Belgium reduced to a Garrison unit.

13 : 2 German Garrison units near Metz fortress, are now Infantry units.

14 : German Convoys now are strength 10 as per Entente.( Giving them a chance to at least deliver some PPs if attacked)

15 : Bulgaria now does join the war.

16 : New event ANZACS arrive in Cairo.

17 : New event French Army Of Africa arrive in Algiers.

18 : Canadian Corps now arrive in Britain as per the Event Message.

19 : German Baltic Convoy message,now correctly reports that Russia has blockaded German Ports in the Baltic.

20 : Mountain & Swamp movement is now impossible for Artillery.

22 : Italy not as strong as before.

< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/5/2014 9:48:57 PM >


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Post #: 70
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 8:39:20 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Has anyone anything to say about, Russia surviving longer in game now & USA war entry?

Plus if you like the new Submarine script changes that make them much more effective now?


I agree with warspite really. The game as it stands is very unbalanced so it is hard to know how Russia and America will perform. Bulgaria joining the war will help to balance things a bit more; Italy should not be able to swarm over the Alps so that still seems a bit of a problem; and if the Americans do come in to the war then it should mean that Portuguese troops cannot reach Europe in any great numbers because there were not enough troop ships available. Once we get the hotfix then we will be able to play into 1916 and 1917 as the Central Powers and report back to you.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 71
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 8:41:10 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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Don't forget variable winters! (he says forlornly)

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Post #: 72
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 9:32:44 PM   
stockwellpete

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

14 : German Convoys now are strength 10 as per Entente.( Giving them a chance to at least deliver some PPs if attacked)



Some great changes there, Kirk. It is going to make it very interesting to play again. Not sure about this one though. My default position is that we should stick to the history as far as possible UNLESS there is a compelling reason to improve the gameplay. So I think we need to research the comparative values of the various trade routes to be more accurate than just saying they all should be 10. And maybe they don't all have to be the same value every time either. The second issue is that a lot of merchant ships were impounded rather than sunk so maybe there could be a way of representing this in the game in due course? The unrestricted submarine warfare phases of the war would be different and then convoys would be sunk.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 73
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 9:48:16 PM   
Hotschi


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Stopped playing the 1.40 Beta as CP, because it was impossible for me to achieve any advance on all fronts - except taking Liege in Belgium. Turn 20, March 1915, French Forces crossed the Rhine and started to encircle my German Forces on the Western Front. That was it for me.

Let's see what a new patch will do.

_____________________________

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- Wavell's reply to Churchill, after the latter complained about faint-heartedness, as he discovered that British casualties in the evacuation from Somaliland had been only 260 men.

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 74
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 9:58:01 PM   
bob.

 

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I am an accidental double-post, ignore me.

< Message edited by bob. -- 1/5/2014 11:04:55 PM >

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 75
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/5/2014 10:04:14 PM   
bob.

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

I have taken the feedback on board, and I have changed a great many things already, that will be included when the hot fix is released any day now.

So what have I changed.

1 : Entente has less PPs.

As I have said earlier why not instead of outright lowering PPs make the efficiency low at start and increase over time? That way the Entente will slowly but surely overpower the CP, which is in my opinion exactly how it should be.
quote:

8 : Fighter aircraft from the start off the war, are little more than Air Recon.
What does that mean, they do more plane damage now at the start? Not sure if I like this change too much if that is the case.

quote:

11 : Brugge & Small Garrison in Belgium removed from the game.

12 : Infantry unit in Belgium reduced to a Garrison unit.

13 : 2 German Garrison units near Metz fortress, are now Infantry units.

14 : German Convoys now are strength 10 as per Entente.( Giving them a chance to at least deliver some PPs if attacked)

Very good!

< Message edited by bob. -- 1/5/2014 11:04:35 PM >

(in reply to bob.)
Post #: 76
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 1:03:59 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bob.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

I have taken the feedback on board, and I have changed a great many things already, that will be included when the hot fix is released any day now.

So what have I changed.

1 : Entente has less PPs.

As I have said earlier why not instead of outright lowering PPs make the efficiency low at start and increase over time? That way the Entente will slowly but surely overpower the CP, which is in my opinion exactly how it should be.
quote:

8 : Fighter aircraft from the start off the war, are little more than Air Recon.
What does that mean, they do more plane damage now at the start? Not sure if I like this change too much if that is the case.

quote:

11 : Brugge & Small Garrison in Belgium removed from the game.

12 : Infantry unit in Belgium reduced to a Garrison unit.

13 : 2 German Garrison units near Metz fortress, are now Infantry units.

14 : German Convoys now are strength 10 as per Entente.( Giving them a chance to at least deliver some PPs if attacked)

Very good!


Your first question,by reducing a countries efficiency,are you talking about their war ready state % ?

Your second question regarding Early war fighter aircraft,the first aircraft over the Western front,were little more than Reconnaissance, with NO ATTACK CAPABILITY ! ( Fact as per History ) and in this roll they do serve a purpose,until research turns them into true Fighter Aircraft.


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/6/2014 2:07:00 AM >


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Post #: 77
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 2:29:12 AM   
bob.

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23
Your first question,by reducing a countries efficiency,are you talking about their war ready state % ?

Your second question regarding Early war fighter aircraft,the first aircraft over the Western front,were little more than Reconnaissance, with NO ATTACK CAPABILITY ! ( Fact as per History ) and in this roll they do serve a purpose,until research turns them into true Fighter Aircraft.


1. Yes. Considering that the Centrals do start with reduced ready state, it seems very reasonable to me. Actually... why Does Germany and AH start with reduced ready state in the first place and the Entente not? Is there a historical reason for that?
2. I know. Thats why I was asking what you have changed. Since this is already how it is right now.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 78
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 4:44:18 AM   
kirk23


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From: Fife Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bob.


1. Yes. Considering that the Centrals do start with reduced ready state, it seems very reasonable to me. Actually... why Does Germany and AH start with reduced ready state in the first place and the Entente not? Is there a historical reason for that?


After all this time playing the game,I never realized how stupid I have been, I actually never noticed, that it was just Germany & Austria/Hungary that are restricted in this manner.There is absolutely no reason why the Central Powers should start with reduced ready state, if anything it should be the Entente who are restricted. I must say thank you for pointing this out,I have altered the scripts,rather than removing this anchor around the Central Powers necks, because if I did that, it might cause conflict elsewhere within the game,which usually ends in the game crashing big time. As I said I have edited the script,so that it only takes them 6 turns to be at full ready status,instead off as now 13 Game turns. No wonder the Central Powers struggle in the game.

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Post #: 79
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 7:45:51 AM   
stockwellpete

 

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Another thing I have noticed is this. At the start of the game the infantry level of most countries starts at I, only Germany starts at II, I believe. Then, when the research for "industrial warfare" is completed infantry levels will rise to II. In my recent single player game the following happened . . .

Serbian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 1/10/14 so troops had become II
Belgian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 29/10/14 so troops had become II
French infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 17/9/14 so troops had become II
Austro-Hungarian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 24/9/14 so troops had become II
British infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 24/9/14 so troops had become II
Russian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 17/9/14 so troops had become II

Whereas German infantry started at II, had researched the next level by 12/11/14 so troops had become III

So, all the Entente troops from the various countries (except Belgium) do catch Germany up very quickly in the game (before the end of September) and although Germany might pull ahead again in November (when going up to III) this advantage is very short-lived. I think this situation is probably OK for French, British and maybe even Serbian troops, but not for the Belgians and Russians who should not really be able to catch the Germans up.

The other thing is that once a research is achieved a player may allocate it to all his units if they have enough PP's when, in reality, the advance would be rolled out gradually to the various units. So maybe there is a way of slowing down the upgrading of units in an army? So Germany, France and Britain can upgrade 4 infantry units a turn, whereas Austria-Hungary, Russia, Serbia and Italy can only upgrade 2 infantry units a turn. Something along these lines anyway to make things a bit more realistic.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 80
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 11:06:40 AM   
Cataphract88


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Folks I'm sure the powers that be will not be against,changing the names of some off the land units, IE : Garrison & Infantry.

What do you all think about the above suggestion,made by aesopo.

Small Garrison = Regiment?

Garrison = Corps or Division ?

Infantry = Armies ?

I also want to change Battleships - Dreadnoughts officially, in the next patch 1.50!



I would go . . .

Small garrison = Garrison

Garrison = Division

Infantry = Corps

The Dreadnought change is absolutely essential. We need pre-dreadnought battleships and destroyers too at some point.



Thanks for all the work you're doing to improve the game, Kirk; I think that Stockwellpete has it right with the infantry descriptions.


_____________________________

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Post #: 81
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 11:58:38 AM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

Another thing I have noticed is this. At the start of the game the infantry level of most countries starts at I, only Germany starts at II, I believe. Then, when the research for "industrial warfare" is completed infantry levels will rise to II. In my recent single player game the following happened . . .

Serbian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 1/10/14 so troops had become II
Belgian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 29/10/14 so troops had become II
French infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 17/9/14 so troops had become II
Austro-Hungarian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 24/9/14 so troops had become II
British infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 24/9/14 so troops had become II
Russian infantry started at I, had researched "industrial warfare" by 17/9/14 so troops had become II

Whereas German infantry started at II, had researched the next level by 12/11/14 so troops had become III

So, all the Entente troops from the various countries (except Belgium) do catch Germany up very quickly in the game (before the end of September) and although Germany might pull ahead again in November (when going up to III) this advantage is very short-lived. I think this situation is probably OK for French, British and maybe even Serbian troops, but not for the Belgians and Russians who should not really be able to catch the Germans up.

The other thing is that once a research is achieved a player may allocate it to all his units if they have enough PP's when, in reality, the advance would be rolled out gradually to the various units. So maybe there is a way of slowing down the upgrading of units in an army? So Germany, France and Britain can upgrade 4 infantry units a turn, whereas Austria-Hungary, Russia, Serbia and Italy can only upgrade 2 infantry units a turn. Something along these lines anyway to make things a bit more realistic.



I have slowed down the research programme,as I feel that things are discovered to quickly.

As for the slowing down off upgrading units,as above Germany,France & Britain 4 Infantry per turn etc, I will hand that task over to the software wiz kid.

_____________________________

Make it so!

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 82
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 12:29:41 PM   
stockwellpete

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/20/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

As for the slowing down off upgrading units,as above Germany,France & Britain 4 Infantry per turn etc, I will hand that task over to the software wiz kid.


The related idea I have got in my head at the moment concerns the "Logistical Upgrades" part of the Management tab. At the moment there are three upgrades available here - ammunition, railways and transport - but there is actually space for three more such upgrades. I would need to do a bit more work on this idea but tentatively, how about "Agriculture" (Expand Food Production), "Industry" (Expand Industrial Production) and "Government" (Expand State Control").

The idea would be that you would allocate a proportion of your PP's in the same way as you do for ammunition etc and you would get certain benefits for doing so. So increased food production might reduce the chance of food riots and rationing and it might delay the deterioration of manpower joining the army. Increased industrial Production would enable research improvements to be more speedily allocated to that nation's military units. And Increased State Control could have positive impacts in terms of overall production as a nation moves towards a "Total War" posture.

As I say, it needs a lot more thought, but something like this would bring in more strategic elements without detracting from what is essentially a war game (I mean that the main focus in the game is the fighting).

What do people think of these ideas?

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 83
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 12:46:47 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23


quote:

ORIGINAL: bob.


1. Yes. Considering that the Centrals do start with reduced ready state, it seems very reasonable to me. Actually... why Does Germany and AH start with reduced ready state in the first place and the Entente not? Is there a historical reason for that?


After all this time playing the game,I never realized how stupid I have been, I actually never noticed, that it was just Germany & Austria/Hungary that are restricted in this manner.There is absolutely no reason why the Central Powers should start with reduced ready state, if anything it should be the Entente who are restricted. I must say thank you for pointing this out,I have altered the scripts,rather than removing this anchor around the Central Powers necks, because if I did that, it might cause conflict elsewhere within the game,which usually ends in the game crashing big time. As I said I have edited the script,so that it only takes them 6 turns to be at full ready status,instead off as now 13 Game turns. No wonder the Central Powers struggle in the game.


As per Bob. Earlier discussion regarding all the major Nations starting war build up, I have been working on the following Idea where all the major countries,build up at a different rate.

INCREMENTAL WAR BUILD UP FOR Germany, Austria & Turkey.

function PhaseStart(alliance)
local turn = game.turn + 1
if alliance.id == 2 then
if turn == 2 then
SetWarEffort(2, 80)
SetWarEffort(3, 79)
end
if turn == 3 then
SetWarEffort(2, 85)
SetWarEffort(3, 83)
end
if turn == 4 then
SetWarEffort(2, 90)
SetWarEffort(3, 87)
end
if turn == 5 then
SetWarEffort(2, 95)
SetWarEffort(3, 90)
end
if turn == 6 then
SetWarEffort(2, 100)
SetWarEffort(3, 93)
SetWarEffort(5, 77)
end
if turn == 7 then
SetWarEffort(3, 96)
SetWarEffort(5, 79)
end
if turn == 8 then
SetWarEffort(3, 100)
SetWarEffort(5, 81)
end
if turn == 9 then
SetWarEffort(5, 83)
end
if turn == 10 then
SetWarEffort(5, 85)
end
if turn == 11 then
SetWarEffort(5, 87)
end
if turn == 12 then
SetWarEffort(5, 89)
end
if turn == 13 then
SetWarEffort(5, 91)
end
if turn == 14 then
SetWarEffort(5, 93)
end
if turn == 15 then
SetWarEffort(5, 95)
end
if turn == 16 then
SetWarEffort(5, 97)
end
if turn == 17 then
SetWarEffort(5, 100)
end
end
end

INITIAL WAR BUILD UP FOR France,Britain,Germany,Austria,Russia,Turkey.

SetWarEffort(0, 75)
SetWarEffort(1, 75)
SetWarEffort(2, 75)
SetWarEffort(3, 75)
SetWarEffort(4, 75)
SetWarEffort(5, 75)

INCREMENTAL WAR BUILD UP FOR France,Britain & Russia.

local turn = game.turn + 1
if alliance.id == 1 then
if turn == 2 then
SetWarEffort(0, 78)
SetWarEffort(1, 80)
SetWarEffort(4, 77)
end
if turn == 4 then
SetWarEffort(0, 82)
SetWarEffort(1, 85)
SetWarEffort(4, 79)
end
if turn == 6 then
SetWarEffort(0, 86)
SetWarEffort(1, 90)
SetWarEffort(4, 81)
end
if turn == 8 then
SetWarEffort(0, 90)
SetWarEffort(1, 95)
SetWarEffort(4, 83)
end
if turn == 10 then
SetWarEffort(0, 94)
SetWarEffort(1, 100)
SetWarEffort(4, 85)
end
if turn == 12 then
SetWarEffort(0, 98)
SetWarEffort(4, 87)
end
if turn == 14 then
SetWarEffort(0, 100)
SetWarEffort(4, 89)
end
if turn == 16 then
SetWarEffort(4, 91)
end
if turn == 18 then
SetWarEffort(4, 93)
end
if turn == 20 then
SetWarEffort(4, 95)
end
if turn == 22 then
SetWarEffort(4, 97)
end
if turn == 24 then
SetWarEffort(4, 100)
end
end
end

As yet I have not tested this theory out in game, because it just might cause a major crash, but I have made a backup,so I will put it to the test later today,fingers crossed it should work, I think


< Message edited by kirk23 -- 1/6/2014 1:56:06 PM >


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Post #: 84
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 1:00:26 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: stockwellpete

quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

As for the slowing down off upgrading units,as above Germany,France & Britain 4 Infantry per turn etc, I will hand that task over to the software wiz kid.


The related idea I have got in my head at the moment concerns the "Logistical Upgrades" part of the Management tab. At the moment there are three upgrades available here - ammunition, railways and transport - but there is actually space for three more such upgrades. I would need to do a bit more work on this idea but tentatively, how about "Agriculture" (Expand Food Production), "Industry" (Expand Industrial Production) and "Government" (Expand State Control").

The idea would be that you would allocate a proportion of your PP's in the same way as you do for ammunition etc and you would get certain benefits for doing so. So increased food production might reduce the chance of food riots and rationing and it might delay the deterioration of manpower joining the army. Increased industrial Production would enable research improvements to be more speedily allocated to that nation's military units. And Increased State Control could have positive impacts in terms of overall production as a nation moves towards a "Total War" posture.

As I say, it needs a lot more thought, but something like this would bring in more strategic elements without detracting from what is essentially a war game (I mean that the main focus in the game is the fighting).

What do people think of these ideas?



I like this suggestion, but its out with my remit,this can only be done by the Software Wiz Kid.

_____________________________

Make it so!

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 85
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 1:46:28 PM   
bob.

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 6/2/2013
Status: offline
Kirk, good changes. It won't cause any crashes, I am certain of that. I have tried modding the game a little bit myself, just to see what is possible and there were no problem at all.
Just note that for each SetWarEffort value you need a SEPARATE entry in the localization file:
quote:

war_effort_85 = War Effort increased to 85%
war_effort_80 = War Effort increased to 80%
war_effort_75 = War Effort increased to 75%
etc etc


EDIT: Tested and worked beautifully.

< Message edited by bob. -- 1/6/2014 3:13:39 PM >

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 86
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 4:13:49 PM   
kirk23


Posts: 2885
Joined: 10/15/2010
From: Fife Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bob.

Kirk, good changes. It won't cause any crashes, I am certain of that. I have tried modding the game a little bit myself, just to see what is possible and there were no problem at all.
Just note that for each SetWarEffort value you need a SEPARATE entry in the localization file:
quote:

war_effort_85 = War Effort increased to 85%
war_effort_80 = War Effort increased to 80%
war_effort_75 = War Effort increased to 75%
etc etc


EDIT: Tested and worked beautifully.


Good to know that it can work,so it might help balance the game even more!


_____________________________

Make it so!

(in reply to bob.)
Post #: 87
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/6/2014 4:22:28 PM   
stockwellpete

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/20/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kirk23

I like this suggestion, but its out with my remit,this can only be done by the Software Wiz Kid.


OK, I'll do a bit more work on it and post here again.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 88
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/7/2014 7:34:49 AM   
stockwellpete

 

Posts: 582
Joined: 12/20/2012
Status: offline
Kirk, I raised the issue earlier about the Eastern Front developing exactly the same way as the Western Front in my beta test single-player game i.e. two sets of extended trench networks lasting a number of years resulted. Now, my understanding is that the Eastern Front, in reality, saw a much more mobile form of warfare and so I was wondering if reducing the entrenchment capabilities of units on the Eastern Front would help. Because artillery would find it easier to blast static infantry units out of their trenches, players would pick more cavalry, armoured car and aircraft units and try and use their mobility more.

I suppose the difficulty is that it is the unit that has the entrenchment capability and not the terrain hex - but is there some way of limiting entrenchment levels on different parts of the map?

(in reply to stockwellpete)
Post #: 89
RE: Good Or Bad 1.40 Open Beta Patch ? - 1/7/2014 1:02:13 PM   
Alejandro

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 5/21/2013
Status: offline
While I respect all the feedback provided by the Beta testers (I have not run it), let me comment the following.
Games do not need to be 100% Historically accurate. We can play being New Generals, we create strategies and tactics based on what the games offers, winning or loosing based on that.If we push too far to replicate the historic conditions, the game can be just a "replication" of WW1, and by itself would become boring.
Kirk23 and all the team have developed an awesome game, much better than Commander at War Europe. I cannot stop playing this game on line, although against AI I win easily.
Lets allow some creativity, regardless of if West or East fronts move or entrench too much. I have made the Turks become marines, British invade low countries, Germans take Spain... Let the creativity become your general!
Humbly and Sincerely, Alejandro.

PS: Please correct Russian surrender mode. I have had to either beat them very hard, or see them surrender at nothing in early 1916!
Thanks for the GREAT game.

(in reply to kirk23)
Post #: 90
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