Another silly noob question

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Another silly noob question - 1/4/2014 9:07:36 PM

Antmf_slith
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What is the main difference between large spaceport and small? Is it that you can put more defensive and offensive items on it? Or does it construct faster? Is there any advantage of having a large over a small when playing a regular game and or prewarp?

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RE: Another silly noob question - 1/4/2014 9:38:40 PM

Deathball
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Aside from more shields/weapons it also has more construction bays meaning more ships can be constructed in parallel.

(in reply to Antmf_slith)

Post #: 2

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/4/2014 9:38:49 PM

Sithuk
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The only difference is within the policy options where you can set the population values for the player construction AI to build or upgrade existing space ports to the relevant space port "type" when the population threshold has been reached. A "type" being "small", "medium", or "large" space port.

You can of course have a "small" spaceport that is larger than your "large" spaceport. But then the AI will build the smaller "large" spaceport at your higher population worlds, which would be counter to conventional strategy. Conventional strategy being to have fewer larger space ports, one located at each of your "home world" class planets with max population, for example, 10b+ population. The larger population contributing more tax, and more to your research cap which are the two most important strategic items.

< Message edited by Sithuk -- 1/4/2014 10:42:07 PM >

(in reply to Antmf_slith)

Post #: 3

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/4/2014 10:27:50 PM

Antmf_slith
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ok thanks now here is another question. I thought we could not manually retro mining stations but when I hit F8 to go to design it allows me to change the automatic to manual and is kit better to let the private sector do the retrofitting?

(in reply to Sithuk)

Post #: 4

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/4/2014 10:41:29 PM

CyclopsSlayer
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I NEVER trust the auto design feature. I custom design every ship and base.

The game chooses the system to install in the design not based on Size, Power, Usefulness, no... the only criteria is the position on the tech chart. The tech in the same category that is above or to the right is chosen over anything else. So say you develop the starting specialized Hyperdrives, Kaldos, Equinox and Cal Dista, the designer will always choose the Kaldos if you use the Auto-design.
The designer will even install an advanced Kaldos over the in all ways better starting Torrent drive.

And yes, you can manually force Private Sector upgrades. Design the ships yourself. Then in the Ships Menu choose the type you want to upgrade, say Small Freighters. Select all the Small Freighters, and click retrofit, choose your new custom design.

< Message edited by CyclopsSlayer -- 1/4/2014 11:44:53 PM >

(in reply to Antmf_slith)

Post #: 5

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/5/2014 7:05:53 AM

Canute0
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quote:

ok thanks now here is another question. I thought we could not manually retro mining stations but when I hit F8 to go to design it allows me to change the automatic to manual and is kit better to let the private sector do the retrofitting?

The retrofiting ablity of stations beside Starports is a few feature of the Shadow expansion.
It can be useful but can be anoying.
Don't forget the retrofit need resources, and the station need to have them on the cargo. When the station run out of a special resources for a retrofit it can take alot time until it got refilled and you got the stalled construction message a very long time.
The important modules the mining /gas mining modules update automatical with the research.

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

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RE: Another silly noob question - 1/5/2014 10:41:59 PM

Henzington
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It is hugely important to change the population at which your spaceport upgrades while playing the shadows expansion. I didn't do this and found my economy struggling without the funds to build some ships to fend off even the weaker pirates.

(in reply to Canute0)

Post #: 7

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/5/2014 11:19:13 PM

Timotheus
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"What is the main difference between large spaceport and small?"

This is a TRICK question.

In this game, if you do design everything yourself (and you SHOULD) and do not automate (it is the MANLY way to play), you can re-design your design once new components/size increase are available. So that small spaceport in my late game has 15 labs, 300+ firepower, a crapload of Meridian shields, hyperdeny, fuel storage for three games of DW played by Icemania - in short, it is many times bigger than the Large StarPort from the beginning of the game.

It is just a label - YOU decide what you put in it and how much.

(in reply to Henzington)

Post #: 8

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 3:54:52 AM

CyclopsSlayer
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One thing I do is reserve the Ports for larger colony worlds. I design a Star Base "Outpost" that is little more than minimal support systems, a few Shields, a Recc/Med/Commerce center, and a few Fighter bays to defend from pirate raids. Costing <= 10K they provide all the growth and economic benefits and help reduce the Pirate raid annoyances.

Once they hit various population thresholds they get upgraded to Small+ Ports.

(in reply to Timotheus)

Post #: 9

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 12:35:32 PM

Spidey
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I would advise against building space ports based on colony size alone. I'm doing a sandbox at the moment and one of the things I'm trying to pay attention to is how my infrastructure works. And what strikes me, among other things, is that the more space ports I build, the less resources I have in each one.

For quite a while, I had 50 colonies and God knows how many mines and only three or four ports. It worked out fine. Never had problems with shortages. Now I'm at 60 colonies and 7 ports and I'm actually beginning to see shortages here and there, if I'm aggressive with my build orders. This makes sense if we think of ports as resource hubs or central warehouses. If you've got 100k chromium and 4 warehouses, you'll probably end up with 25k in each. If you have 8 warehouses, you'll only have 12.5k in each.

Another thing to notice about spaceports, and which you'll really see if you don't build that many, is that every colony is seemingly paired with the nearest space port and that all ports have connections with other ports. It's looking to me like some form of balanced tree structure, though my recollection of data structures is a bit rusty. It also looks a bit like the civilians mostly distribute stuff along the edge lines of the tree. I could be wrong, but I think some civilians are essentially routed to transport stuff from a mine or a planet to the nearest port while others are tasked with bringing stuff along the edges between ports.

If you build a whole lot of ports that each have access to a few nearby resources then it seems to me that you end up with a lot of warehouses and the civilians working the edges between those warehouses get overworked trying to balance stockpiles everywhere. If you build less warehouses, and if you provide each with access to its own supply of all (or most) strategic resources, the local civilians will bee-line to and from the mines and the warehouse-warehouse civilians will do limited long hauls to maintain balance and bring stuff that isn't locally available.

Admittedly, I haven't really analysed the mechanics in any kind of depth. This is exclusively a gut feeling. But I really think the importance of building ports everywhere is exaggerated somewhat. The issue in this game, in terms of production, doesn't seem to be a lack of construction yards. After all, you can just retrofit your ports to have 50 yards if you want. The problem is having the right resources in high enough supply to support that sort of construction order. And I believe this is more easily achieved by having fewer ports and thus fewer places to stockpile your resources.

(in reply to CyclopsSlayer)

Post #: 10

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 1:01:39 PM

Canute0
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quote:

Another thing to notice about spaceports, and which you'll really see if you don't build that many, is that every colony is seemingly paired with the nearest space port and that all ports have connections with other ports. It's looking to me like some form of balanced tree structure, though my recollection of data structures is a bit rusty. It also looks a bit like the civilians mostly distribute stuff along the edge lines of the tree. I could be wrong, but I think some civilians are essentially routed to transport stuff from a mine or a planet to the nearest port while others are tasked with bringing stuff along the edges between ports.

Yes these are the traderoutes.
Larger (not the Large exclusive) spaceports are the tradehubs, they collect the surplus resources from the surrounding mines and colonies

quote:

Admittedly, I haven't really analysed the mechanics in any kind of depth. This is exclusively a gut feeling. But I really think the importance of building ports everywhere is exaggerated somewhat.

Most player build spaceports overall because they want the bonus from the medical and recreation module. These increase the moral of the planet.
Highter morale means you can raise the tax or the population grow faster.
So long the colony isn't at some border or got pirates around it could be a minimal defenceless small spaceport.
When you notice a colony got some trade traffic, because it got many or valueable resources, you should build a spaceport too. Because the planet just got 2 docking bay and a spaceport can reduce a traffic jam.

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 11

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 1:07:08 PM

ReadeB
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The space port vs base question is also a matter of maintenance dollars.

I recently learned the value of small simple bases in bringing my costs down. This is part of the transition you need to make from heavy defenses in early game to cheaper but still reasonable defenses once the pirate threat is beaten down.

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 12

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 3:43:35 PM

Spidey
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quote:

Most player build spaceports overall because they want the bonus from the medical and recreation module. These increase the moral of the planet.
Highter morale means you can raise the tax or the population grow faster.
So long the colony isn't at some border or got pirates around it could be a minimal defenceless small spaceport.

You don't need a space port to establish rec and health facilities. Just build a regular defensive base or starbase with those components and you'll have those facilities without any pointless resource stockpiling. I suspect it is the role designation as space port that causes ships to stockpile resources at a given base because I haven't seen defensive bases cause that same effect, regardless of what's on them.

And as I said, if you have 50 ports then your resources will be spread thing between them. If you have 45 defensive bases and 5 ports then you'll have large stockpiles and production facilities at only five places in your territory but have full facility coverage.

(in reply to ReadeB)

Post #: 13

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 5:53:08 PM

HariSeldon
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I only build space ports at strategic colonies, but I build resort base to all others. With rec/med and few defense, and of course passengers bay.
With 10 colonies, my resort income is always in 10 - 70k, largely enough to pay the maintenance.

_____________________________

Hari

(in reply to Spidey)

Post #: 14

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 6:39:22 PM

Antmf_slith
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How do I tell when I am at max population, so I know when to raise taxes? I always start with my first planet at 10%. Dunno if that's a good thing because I havent even gotten to mid to late game yet lol. This game is so deep I start to feel overwhelmed after I explore my system and it becomes time to branch out. Keep the info coming I am going to get this game sooner or later with your help guys :)

(in reply to HariSeldon)

Post #: 15

RE: Another silly noob question - 1/6/2014 7:37:51 PM

Spidey
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When at max pop, instead of showing you a growth percentage, the colony info will say "MAX" with red letters.

And 10% is as good a place to start as any, but once you've got money on hand, you might want to consider periods of 0% taxation. This helps growth a lot and it's not like you're earning any interest on your savings.

(in reply to Antmf_slith)

Post #: 16