Keeping North Africa in Supply

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Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 5:32:46 PM

JagWars

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2000
From: Eureka, Missouri, USA
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Looking for any suggestions on how to keep the Axis forces in supply in North Africa.
We are playing with most of the available optional rules except Cruisers in Flames.
It is Jan/Feb 1941 The CW has just received two AMPH and will most likely build his MAR unit this turn. He already has the PARA unit.
The CW already has 8 CVs (and three CVLs which he is using for convoy escort)in Malta and will get two more (3 rated) CVs in Jan/Feb 1942.
The CW has 6 (5 MP factor) BBs in Malta and just received two more in Jan/Feb which I am confident that he will send to Malta as well and he has 13 CAs in Malta.
He has two long range Beaufighters in Malta as well

The Italians have 4 BBs and 11 CAs,2 Italian NAVs + 2 German NAVs, 1 6 range FTR and 2 German 5/6 range FTR. The Italians had two more NAVs but the Brits have already shot them down.
The Italians cannot seem to keep the NAVs out for the whole impulse before the CW either kills or aborts them. Nor can Italy afford to contest any sea area with their Navy. The CVs will tear the Navy up in short order. The loss of only a few ships to Naval air will result in an overwhelming surface ship advantage to the CW. Plus a fleet in being is more valuable than a crippled fleet that managed to maintain supply for one turn.
In the mean time the Brits are putting the Axis units in North Africa out of supply, ground striking and over-running the units. They are only three hexes away from Tripoli.
There are no Axis FTRs in North Africa. We tried that, but they ended up being out of supply and therefore unusable and we decided they were more valuable trying to protect the NAVs in the sea areas.

Post #: 1

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 5:44:53 PM

Centuur

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Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
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It's simple: if the Axis doesn't control the sky in the Med anymore, supply for the Axis troops in North Africa is gone.

To get it back, you need more air power than the allies have available. Somewhere in 1941 the balance is slowly sliding towards the CW, if he can put in long range FTR's in the Med. How to prevent this: that depends on the air units available to the Axis. All long range FTR's they have should go into the Med together with all NAV's and you have to try to kill the Beaufighters, since those are the nasty buggers here. If you don't succeed...

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Peter

(in reply to JagWars)

Post #: 2

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 6:07:06 PM

markb50k

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Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
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Give the CW navy something else to do, like worry about a Sea Lion or an invasion of Norway. If all the CW has to worry about is the Med, its going to be tough on the Axis

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 3

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 6:26:22 PM

brian brian

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Joined: 11/16/2005
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not enough Axis FTR. Usually the Beaufighters only survive a couple turns against Axis FTR-2. It gets bad later, when the P-40s, P-38s, and Mosquitoes take over. If you lose the first and second air battle, keep fighting. Air combat dice won't stay cold for the Axis forever, and the British carrier fighters can't protect their fleet as well. You might need to add Axis land bombers to the NAVs to help get through the Royal Navy AA factors.

But then, why did Rommel not take Suez? Perhaps the British submarines.

How did the historical Axis tip the air balance in the Med? With a lot of Luftwaffe that might have been handy in Russia, and a bit of luck with the U-Boats (Ark Royal). In WiF it can be nice to intercept CW ships on their way to the Med with SUBs in the Bay of Biscay or Cape St Vincent.

(in reply to markb50k)

Post #: 4

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 8:44:32 PM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline

Italy should build navs, and convoys.

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Post #: 5

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 9:12:14 PM

Horaf_1

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I'm guessing that the Germans don't have a lot of subs. With a strong German and italian sub fleet, the CW can't afford to concentrate so much in the med. 3CVL's aren't a lot of convoy protection, not with the North Atlantic and central atlanic to patrol, if you want to keep the 0, 1, and 4 box with air power .

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 6

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/7/2014 9:26:07 PM

Klydon

Posts: 2251
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Just my two cents here as well, but looking at a air impulse where you can fly everything at once may be helpful if you are currently trying to feed everything in over a couple impulses.

(in reply to Horaf_1)

Post #: 7

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 12:00:36 AM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
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there is also another option ...

simply hold on to Gibraltar ... strongly.

and only have Malta and Egypt lightly defended.

there is really nothing there. the only use of suez is shorter convoy lines, but after the war with Italy begins. you can�t use the Mediterranean for resource transportation

when Usa enter the war, you will have a overpowering fleets, as the American is not strong enough to fight Japan.

so instead of taking big losses fighting Italy alone, simply snipe the Italians. take out Transporters.

when USA enter the war you can take back the lost terrain easy

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Klydon)

Post #: 8

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 3:00:57 PM

Centuur

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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur

there is also another option ...

simply hold on to Gibraltar ... strongly.

and only have Malta and Egypt lightly defended.

there is really nothing there. the only use of suez is shorter convoy lines, but after the war with Italy begins. you can�t use the Mediterranean for resource transportation

when Usa enter the war, you will have a overpowering fleets, as the American is not strong enough to fight Japan.

so instead of taking big losses fighting Italy alone, simply snipe the Italians. take out Transporters.

when USA enter the war you can take back the lost terrain easy

When Italy takes Sues and Egypt, the path towards Iraq is free for the Axis. I don't want to see Rommel appearing before the gates of Baghdad...

But I agree that the most important units the Italians have are the TRS. They should be the target for the Allies. Kill the TRS, and the Italians are done with the expeditions overseas.

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Peter

(in reply to michaelbaldur)

Post #: 9

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 3:43:07 PM

michaelbaldur

Posts: 4774
Joined: 4/6/2007
From: denmark
Status: offline

I done that ..sail both transporters to the red sea, to pick up units.

then CW DOW me and the got stuck there

_____________________________

the wif rulebook is my bible

I work hard, not smart.

beta tester and Mwif expert

if you have questions or issues with the game, just contact me on Michaelbaldur1@gmail.com

(in reply to Centuur)

Post #: 10

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 4:14:19 PM

Sabre21

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Isn't it pretty easy to keep the Axis from taking Egypt? A few good units stacked up next to the Qattara Depression pretty much keeps the Axis bottled up. Unless the Italians buy an amphib, I don't really see Egypt falling. A couple of the territorial units placed in ports along with the blocking force, a couple air units and the Royal Navy seems to be more than enough to stop any Axis middle east adventures.

In fact, since the RN can easily dominate the Med, the Italian position in N Africa can become desperate as most units can be put out of supply. Any German reinforcement that manages to get there will also be put out of supply.

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Post #: 11

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 6:10:08 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Isn't it pretty easy to keep the Axis from taking Egypt? A few good units stacked up next to the Qattara Depression pretty much keeps the Axis bottled up. Unless the Italians buy an amphib, I don't really see Egypt falling. A couple of the territorial units placed in ports along with the blocking force, a couple air units and the Royal Navy seems to be more than enough to stop any Axis middle east adventures.

In fact, since the RN can easily dominate the Med, the Italian position in N Africa can become desperate as most units can be put out of supply. Any German reinforcement that manages to get there will also be put out of supply.

If the Axis focuses on naval air supported by fighters, the Commonwealth control of the Med can be put in jeopardy. It then depends on search rolls and how much air power the Commonwealth can put into the Med. There are other demands on the Commonwealth fighters: supporting Belgium and France, controlling the North Sea, defending against strategic bombing, and defending against Sealion. If all their air power is committed to the Med, then the other areas are vulnerable. And if the Commonwealth fighters get shot down, it can be a long 2 or 3 turns until replacements arrive.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Sabre21)

Post #: 12

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/8/2014 6:25:34 PM

SLAAKMAN

Posts: 2725
Joined: 7/24/2002
Status: offline

quote:

there is also another option ...

simply hold on to Gibraltar ... strongly.

and only have Malta and Egypt lightly defended.

there is really nothing there. the only use of suez is shorter convoy lines, but after the war with Italy begins. you can�t use the Mediterranean for resource transportation

when Usa enter the war, you will have a overpowering fleets, as the American is not strong enough to fight Japan.

so instead of taking big losses fighting Italy alone, simply snipe the Italians. take out Transporters.

when USA enter the war you can take back the lost terrain easy

MUAHAHAHAHAHA! Soon you will enter my web of doom little fly and we will see how well your American dupes can do against my Invincible Frogmen!!!

_____________________________

Germany's unforgivable crime before the Second World War was her attempt to extricate her economy from the world's trading system and to create her own exchange mechanism which would deny world finance its opportunity to profit.
� Winston Churchill

(in reply to Sabre21)

Post #: 13

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/9/2014 12:30:12 AM

JagWars

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2000
From: Eureka, Missouri, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Freychris

I'm guessing that the Germans don't have a lot of subs. With a strong German and Italian sub fleet, the CW can't afford to concentrate so much in the med. 3CVL's aren't a lot of convoy protection, not with the North Atlantic and central atlanic to patrol, if you want to keep the 0, 1, and 4 box with air power .

Actually, Germany had eight SUBs but is down to three. He lost five (X or D) during the previous two turns attacking convoys. The Brits lost eight CPs and three resources but had enough saved oil in the UK to make up the resource shortfall.
The Italians have made a few sorties into Cape St. Vincent with their three SUBS without success (only hit was 1 CA aborted) and so far without SUB loss.
The Brits do not lack ships.
Malta: 10 CVs, 8 BBs, 13 CAs,
UK; 12 BBs, 12 CAs (includes Denmark and Netherland CAs)
Bay of Biscay; 5 CAs + 1 FF CA
North Atlantic 5 CAs, 3 CVLs
US East Coast 5 CAs
Cape St. Vincent; 5 CAs + 1 FF CA
Additionally he has 7 NAVs, 3 in Lisbon, 2 in the UK and 2 at Gibraltar.
The only ground units he has built, I believe, is HQ Alexander and the PARA unit. All other production has been for ships and planes.

Free French are patrolling Cape Verde with 5 CAs.

US patrolling Caribbean with a CV and randomly with 1 or more CAs + 2 or 3 NAVs in the US East Coast.

The Germans have some SUBs in the pipeline, but given the protection in the key sea areas, I doubt he will commit more production to SUBs, particularly since he is only a few turns away from invading the USSR.

(in reply to Horaf_1)

Post #: 14

RE: Keeping North Africa in Supply - 1/9/2014 1:19:34 AM

JagWars

Posts: 121
Joined: 7/1/2000
From: Eureka, Missouri, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sabre21

Isn't it pretty easy to keep the Axis from taking Egypt? A few good units stacked up next to the Qattara Depression pretty much keeps the Axis bottled up. Unless the Italians buy an amphib, I don't really see Egypt falling. A couple of the territorial units placed in ports along with the blocking force, a couple air units and the Royal Navy seems to be more than enough to stop any Axis middle east adventures.

In fact, since the RN can easily dominate the Med, the Italian position in N Africa can become desperate as most units can be put out of supply. Any German reinforcement that manages to get there will also be put out of supply.

If the Axis focuses on naval air supported by fighters, the Commonwealth control of the Med can be put in jeopardy. It then depends on search rolls and how much air power the Commonwealth can put into the Med. There are other demands on the Commonwealth fighters: supporting Belgium and France, controlling the North Sea, defending against strategic bombing, and defending against Sealion. If all their air power is committed to the Med, then the other areas are vulnerable. And if the Commonwealth fighters get shot down, it can be a long 2 or 3 turns until replacements arrive.

Actually, I have tried this, twice. I have built every NAV and long range FTR available to the Axis as soon as they are available. It took two or three turns longer, but the result was still the same. The Brits do not need to control the Med in order to reinforce or supply their chaps but the Axis do.
The Axis need to keep a supply line through two of the three Med sea areas. The Brits simply concentrate on one. With the preponderance of CV air and the search advantage that it gives them, they will win the Surprize war sooner or later and drive the Axis forces out of the sea area then ground strike the Axis land units and over-run the 1 defense factor units.
The Brits have little else to do after the Fall of France and can afford to take Combine and Naval actions. Germany needs to move its army across Europe and prepare for the Soviet invasion and therefore cannot afford many Combined or Naval impulses. Italy can afford to take Combined impulses, but then limits the ability to move forces forward in North Africa.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 15