[REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features

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[REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 1:57:39 PM

hoover

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/15/2013
From: Bavaria
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Hi,

I'm already dug in, waiting for incoming rounds.

Yes, I would like to see shiny new features by myself. But if I read through this tech support forum, I have my doubts to request some. Because I like this simulation so much, I would suggest, that the devs should have the time to fix broken things and refactor some code. IMHO it makes no sense at all, to introduce new features (sometimes new bugs) if there is so much to fix with the existent code.

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Hoover

Post #: 1

RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 3:15:16 PM

mikmykWS

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Just to explain our process a little. So when bugs come in we log them to a bug tracking system and give them a priority (when you see me say logged in a post that is me tracking). As feedback or more posts come in we address the priority up or down. We do make clear distinctions between what is a bug and/or feature request. Weekly we meet to discuss formally but we also chat daily as well.

We get the sense that most of our players like the fact that we introduce new features although its fair to say the risk of introducing new bugs in certainly there. If we get the sense that the tradeoff is to great we'll definitely change. So far though that doesn't seem to be the case.

So that being said you obviously cooked up this post because a bug or two is bothering you. So lets cut the chase.. What are they and how can we help?

Thanks!

Mike

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 3:46:29 PM

ExMachina

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quote:

We get the sense that most of our players like the fact that we introduce new features although its fair to say the risk of introducing new bugs in certainly there. If we get the sense that the tradeoff is to great we'll definitely change. So far though that doesn't seem to be the case.

"New" is always exciting but I agree with the OP that spreading one's efforts too broadly can dilute quality.

Case in point, ever since the first release it probably seems like I've harped (sorry, I hope I don't come across as shrill) on the fact CMANO still cannot duplicate Brit's full experience in the Falklands (ie, in a real, historical naval engagement) because their Sea Darts and Sea Wolf missiles reload instantaneously; so far in CMANO, 1983 Brit cruisers have an AAW capability more appropriate to 2003. I know this request has been logged for these weapons systems and for others (thank you) but it's obviously not a super high priority since it still persists. OTOH,the CMANO team spent time introducing (at the players' request) additional sound effects--for me, these additional sound effects made the game unplayable without either turning off the sound entirely or disabling many of sound files (not hard, but time consuming after every update).

I understand that the developers' intentions are sincere, and that the player community is very diverse in what it wants to see CMANO become. But I feel that there comes a point when the addition of new features preclude refinement of the core game.

Again, just my opinion.

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 3

RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 4:03:24 PM

mikmykWS

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quote:

I know this request has been logged for these weapons systems and for others (thank you) but it's obviously not a super high priority since it still persists.

Well I think if more people reported it we'd definitely handled it by now. This is not to minimize you or your report but we do focus on what we know bothers many people before a very small smart subset. We'll of course get to this as soon as we can.

Mike

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 5:20:54 PM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExMachina
Case in point, ever since the first release it probably seems like I've harped (sorry, I hope I don't come across as shrill) on the fact CMANO still cannot duplicate Brit's full experience in the Falklands (ie, in a real, historical naval engagement) because their Sea Darts and Sea Wolf missiles reload instantaneously; s

More accurately, the _first_ reload is ready to fire immediately, correct? IIRC subsequent reloads take the appropriate time. We are aware of this problem and we're looking into possible remedies.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 1/12/2014 6:23:34 PM >

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 6:31:14 PM

ExMachina

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
More accurately, the _first_ reload is ready to fire immediately, correct? IIRC subsequent reloads take the appropriate time. We are aware of this problem and we're looking into possible remedies.

Possibly (would want to go check that specifically) but even then that means that the Sea Wolf sextuple launcher reloads itself instantly, effectively giving a ship like the 1983 HMS Broadsword (w/ its two mounts) 24 rather 12 missiles ready for immediate use. That significantly changes that ships AAW potential.

quote:

Well I think if more people reported it we'd definitely handled it by now. This is not to minimize you or your report but we do focus on what we know bothers many people before a very small smart subset. We'll of course get to this as soon as we can.

No, you guys are the real smart ones

and part of why I was happy to plunk down my cash for this great game was to have you guys tending goal and keeping the reality-focus of the game on track. Things like instant reloads on mounts that have magazine stores alters in no small way any historical ship/navy that employs these. Sure, I'm biased perhaps because I'm most interested in gaming the late Cold War stuff where this kind of ship's mount is pervasive, but I think most players here would say that they value real-world accuracy in CMANO.

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/12/2014 7:36:54 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExMachina
I understand that the developers' intentions are sincere, and that the player community is very diverse in what it wants to see CMANO become. But I feel that there comes a point when the addition of new features preclude refinement of the core game.

Again, just my opinion.

Please bear in mind that a 'bug' and an 'unrealistic feature' are not the same thing; it would be impossible to build 100% realism into any type of simulation, so there must always be compromises, whereas a bug is something that doesn't do what the devs intended. I'm delighted that the devs are putting such effort into enhancing the reality of C:MANO and considering our various requests for new features, as well as bug hunting.

Also bear in mind that coding an enhancement may be the best way to squish a bug e.g. it may take 4 man-hours to eliminate 3 bugs in a particular section of the code, and maybe another 4 hours to add an enhancement to the fixed code; However, it could take 6 man-hours to enhance that section in a way that also eliminates those bugs, so it makes sense to take that approach.

When adding a new feature to existing code, it's not uncommon to conclude 'dang, I wish we'd done the earlier part differently', and so it's often worth bearing in mind potential future changes when writing code. Thus it's still worth us suggesting and devs considering future enhancements that may or may not eventually be added, so the current coding can make allowances for it.

I agree that fixing show-stopper bugs should be a priority, but I do see those being addressed. Clearly the devs are in the best position to decide how to prioritise their efforts, so I suggest we let them do that, as we continue to chip in our bug reports, requests and suggestions.

Just another opinion!

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 1/12/2014 8:37:33 PM >

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/13/2014 10:24:36 AM

hoover

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From: Bavaria
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Hi Mike,

well, I second ExMachina,

please remember, how you advertise your simulation.

"RELENTLESS REALISM"

I think, it is fundamental (and has a far greater importance than new features) to your simulation, that the units involved, do behave in a credible and reasonable way. If they do not so, this would be a show stopping immersion-killer.

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Hoover

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Post #: 8

RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/13/2014 8:40:07 PM

Dimitris

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoover

Hi Mike,

well, I second ExMachina,

please remember, how you advertise your simulation.

"RELENTLESS REALISM"

I think, it is fundamental (and has a far greater importance than new features) to your simulation, that the units involved, do behave in a credible and reasonable way. If they do not so, this would be a show stopping immersion-killer.

By
Hoover

So once more: What are the problems that you allude to? Details, please.

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RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/13/2014 9:27:46 PM

mikmykWS

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hoover

Hi Mike,

well, I second ExMachina,

please remember, how you advertise your simulation.

"RELENTLESS REALISM"

I think, it is fundamental (and has a far greater importance than new features) to your simulation, that the units involved, do behave in a credible and reasonable way. If they do not so, this would be a show stopping immersion-killer.

By
Hoover

Hi Hoover

We looked at Ex M's bug and have communicated to him directly on it.

What exact issue disrupts the realism of the game or any other marketing thing for you? Let us know and we'll take a look.

Mike

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Post #: 10

RE: [REQUEST] Pause Introduction Of New Features - 1/14/2014 11:28:02 AM

hoover

Posts: 10
Joined: 10/15/2013
From: Bavaria
Status: offline

Hi Mike,
hi Sunburn,

maybe I complain about first word problems. If my tone was to harsh. Sorry!

- ASW (For example Nimrod or P-3 Orion)
The ASW Patrol is executed at an unrealistic altitude of 40.000 ft. The planes drop Sonobuoys from this altitude. As far as I know, these Planes were designed to fly their patrols at low altitudes and low speed. Magnetic anomaly detectors may detect from this altitude the Queen Mary II

but not a submarine. :-)
- The instant reload problem (Falkland scenario), mentioned above. But as I read, your are already looking at a solution for this.

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Hoover

(in reply to mikmykWS)

Post #: 11

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