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RE: Still a Pain

 
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RE: Still a Pain - 1/6/2014 2:51:40 PM   
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Omnius
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

Omnius, I understand your issue with the phantom Convoy points via Faeroes Gap


Majorball68,
I was wondering considering your answer that it seemed like the only problem you thought I had was the wayward routing of the British Guyana resource to Australia.

It took some doing but I managed to get the CW legal for production. It took some doing to idle all non-oil resources and get all oil saved. Every time I idled one non-oil resource that was being convoyed when a non-oil resource from that continent could be used, another would replace it with just as stupid a convoy routing.

Then I found a new problem where you can reorganize with saved oil points sent to production and have those saved oil points not be used for oil reorganization but still usable for production.

Omnius

(in reply to Majorball68)
Post #: 31
A Pain Fixing Production - 1/6/2014 3:15:45 PM   
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Omnius
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I managed to get my CW production problem resolved, but it took a lot of work fixing the many screw-ups the program makes convoying resources to factories. I even managed to get non-oil resources on the same continent going to factories without wasting convoy points.

Each time I'd idle a non-oil resource being stupidly convoyed to a factory another would replace it with a similar stupid convoying of another resource. A real shame that the program is clueless about sending resources to factories without wasting convoy points. No reason why resources on the same continent as factories aren't the first to be sent to that factory, no the Artificial Ignorance has to always waste convoy points first.

Once I got the non-oil resources idled pretty much the program went wild sending oil to the factories. I finally got smart and began saving all oil. Then I got even smarter using my saved oil points in Britain to send to the now idled British factories. That way I could finally get resources on the same continent to factories on the same continent without wasting convoy points.

It took well over an hour to sort out the CW Preliminary Production Phase and make it all legal. No illegal shipping of resources to Britain with the Faeroes Gap devoid of Allied convoy points. A real shame that the program doesn't play traffic cop and do this for us automatically. A real shame that each time I'd idle one non-oil resource being illegally convoyed to Britain the program would stupidly recalculate another to take it's place with yet another illegal convoy routing.

I found it interesting that as Germany I didn't get any illegal convoying of the Finnish resource to Germany despite me forgetting to add an extra convoy point. I tried several times to get that extra resource across the Baltic before realizing I forgot to add an extra convoy point. In this case , with only one sea area involved, the program did do it's job to not allow me an illegal convoying of a resource to a factory.

I then proceeded and managed to find a new problem with using oil for reorganization and how the stupid program can't keep the production planning straight from the Preliminary Production Planning Phase to the Final Production Planning Phase. I'll detail the new problem in a new thread.

I'm really disappointed by the lack of fixing the production planning and saving of oil programming from Marinacci's ADG computer version. Production and oil are such crucial aspects of the game that this should have been one of the highest priorities to be fixed before release. A real shame that during beta testing these problems were ignored as beta testers decided to pass up using oil for reorganization and didn't thus test the feature that ended up being turned on for release. Oil reorganization makes oil have it's historically important feature, without it oil is just another mundane resource and saving oil points isn't so important.

I hope this important feature gets fixed soonest, I'm definitely going to slow down playing MWiF because I really hate having to fight the Artificial Ignorance as the CW player trying to get resource convoy routing correct when the program screws it up royally. It also tells me that the submarine warfare aspect is a total joke as the Germans can cut the convoy conga line yet resources keep on flowing through sea areas with no convoy points. Everything else in the game seems to be working quite well, only this feature causes us players nightmares.

Omnius

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 32
RE: A Pain Fixing Production - 1/6/2014 4:50:02 PM   
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Cad908
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Ominus,

I understand your frustration with Production Planning / Resource routing and appreciate the time you have spent to report these issues. However, I would like to make a couple of observations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Production and oil are such crucial aspects of the game that this should have been one of the highest priorities to be fixed before release. A real shame that during beta testing these problems were ignored as beta testers decided to pass up using oil for reorganization and didn't thus test the feature that ended up being turned on for release.


The beta testers did not ignore or miss this issue. Obviously my Non-Disclosure Agreement prevents me from disclosing specifics, but Production Planning went through several iterations and after each it was (including Oil Rules) thoroughly tested.

quote:


I hope this important feature gets fixed soonest, I'm definitely going to slow down playing MWiF because I really hate having to fight the Artificial Ignorance as the CW player trying to get resource convoy routing correct when the program screws it up royally. It also tells me that the submarine warfare aspect is a total joke as the Germans can cut the convoy conga line yet resources keep on flowing through sea areas with no convoy points. Everything else in the game seems to be working quite well, only this feature causes us players nightmares.


I agree, at present it is frustrating to use. As you discussed, for some powers (i.e. Germany, Japan) without long oversea pipelines, it works fine. The CW early in the game, and US later in the game when it want to move resources and build points around the globe, are a mess.

The Beta Testers were worried about this before release and Steve is aware of the current issues. As you noted the vast majority of the game works beautifully, but we need to resolve these last few issues.

-Rob

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 33
More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 5:26:00 PM   
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Omnius
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Cad908,
I don't blame the beta testers but more the person who controlled this and made the incorrect decision to not fix these glaring problems before release. I just hope Steve finally gets the message that fixing production and saving oil is very crucial since so many customers want to use oil reorganization. I can see very little improvement over the Marinacci version for production convoy routing. I do see a little improvement in the last couple of new updates, however not enough to really stop this feature from being a nightmare as the CW player when something happens to change the number of convoy points in a sea area.

Omnius

At least I'm trying to clearly explain the problems I'm seeing and trying to upload files to help Steve fix this.

< Message edited by Omnius -- 1/6/2014 6:27:20 PM >

(in reply to Cad908)
Post #: 34
RE: A Pain Fixing Production - 1/6/2014 6:15:10 PM   
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Centuur
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

Ominus,

I understand your frustration with Production Planning / Resource routing and appreciate the time you have spent to report these issues. However, I would like to make a couple of observations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Production and oil are such crucial aspects of the game that this should have been one of the highest priorities to be fixed before release. A real shame that during beta testing these problems were ignored as beta testers decided to pass up using oil for reorganization and didn't thus test the feature that ended up being turned on for release.


The beta testers did not ignore or miss this issue. Obviously my Non-Disclosure Agreement prevents me from disclosing specifics, but Production Planning went through several iterations and after each it was (including Oil Rules) thoroughly tested.

quote:


I hope this important feature gets fixed soonest, I'm definitely going to slow down playing MWiF because I really hate having to fight the Artificial Ignorance as the CW player trying to get resource convoy routing correct when the program screws it up royally. It also tells me that the submarine warfare aspect is a total joke as the Germans can cut the convoy conga line yet resources keep on flowing through sea areas with no convoy points. Everything else in the game seems to be working quite well, only this feature causes us players nightmares.


I agree, at present it is frustrating to use. As you discussed, for some powers (i.e. Germany, Japan) without long oversea pipelines, it works fine. The CW early in the game, and US later in the game when it want to move resources and build points around the globe, are a mess.

The Beta Testers were worried about this before release and Steve is aware of the current issues. As you noted the vast majority of the game works beautifully, but we need to resolve these last few issues.

-Rob



+1

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Post #: 35
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 6:50:22 PM   
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Cad908
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Cad908,
I don't blame the beta testers but more the person who controlled this and made the incorrect decision to not fix these glaring problems before release. I just hope Steve finally gets the message that fixing production and saving oil is very crucial since so many customers want to use oil reorganization. I can see very little improvement over the Marinacci version for production convoy routing. I do see a little improvement in the last couple of new updates, however not enough to really stop this feature from being a nightmare as the CW player when something happens to change the number of convoy points in a sea area.

Omnius

At least I'm trying to clearly explain the problems I'm seeing and trying to upload files to help Steve fix this.

Omnius,

All the help and feedback is greatly appreciated, and I hope nothing in my post suggested otherwise.

I have never played Marinacci's ADG version so really have no background to evaluate MWiF against it. I can tell you that a great deal of effort was spent on coding and testing Production Planning, which is why the fact that its not working as designed is so frustrating.

The release decision was made way above my level, but I think you have asked a fair question. Matrix and Steve made the determination several months before the release was announced based on where the game's development was and the business planning necessary prior to release, ie getting manuals printed, disks burned, warehousing, sales/marketing. A period of time (actually a hectic period of time) was allocated to finish the game's coding / testing up to the official release. Post-release support, updates and hotfixes were to follow and have been outstanding in my opinion. Holding the release unless the every obscure bug was quashed, all optional rules finished, the One Map Scenarios coded and the AI opponent programmed was simply unrealistic. (Perfection is an elusive goal) It was rather a nuanced decision, and while we (Steve & the Beta Testers) wanted the game more polished at release, it is still a marvelous accomplishment. I know the game will keep improving and then Net Play's implementation will see the come into its own.

Take care,

-Rob

< Message edited by Cad908 -- 1/7/2014 12:46:45 AM >

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Post #: 36
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 7:06:28 PM   
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Centuur
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cad908

quote:

ORIGINAL: Omnius

Cad908,
I don't blame the beta testers but more the person who controlled this and made the incorrect decision to not fix these glaring problems before release. I just hope Steve finally gets the message that fixing production and saving oil is very crucial since so many customers want to use oil reorganization. I can see very little improvement over the Marinacci version for production convoy routing. I do see a little improvement in the last couple of new updates, however not enough to really stop this feature from being a nightmare as the CW player when something happens to change the number of convoy points in a sea area.

Omnius

At least I'm trying to clearly explain the problems I'm seeing and trying to upload files to help Steve fix this.

Omnius,

All the help and feedback is greatly appreciated, and I hope nothing in my post suggested otherwise.

I have never played Marinacci's ADG version so really have no background to evaluate MWiF against it. I can tell you that a great deal of effort was spent on coding and testing Production Planning, which is why the fact that its not working as designed is so frustrating.

The release decision was made way above my level, but I think you have asked a fair question. Matrix and Steve made the determination several months before before the release was announced based on where the game's development was and the business planning necessary prior to release, ie getting manuals printed, disks burned, warehousing, sales/marketing. A period of time (actually a hectic period of time) was allocated to finish the game's coding / testing up to the official release. Post-release support, updates and hotfixes were to follow and have been outstanding in my opinion. Holding the release unless the every obscure bug was quashed, all optional rules finished, the One Map Scenarios coded and the AI opponent programmed was simply unrealistic. (Perfection is an elusive goal) It was rather a nuanced decision, and while we (Steve & the Beta Testers) wanted the game more polished at release, it is still a marvelous accomplishment. I know the game will keep improving and then Net Play's implementation will see the come into its own.

Take care,

-Rob


And I agree to this also. We really appreciate anybody helping us. This game seems a multiheaded monster at times. You cut off one head and there comes another two around. That must be very frustrated to the programmer too...

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Post #: 37
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 10:16:04 PM   
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Omnius
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

And I agree to this also. We really appreciate anybody helping us. This game seems a multiheaded monster at times. You cut off one head and there comes another two around. That must be very frustrated to the programmer too...


Centaur,
Steve has been reluctant to take the plunge and fix this programming nightmare. I can understand his reluctance, but now that paying customers are barking up that tree he'll have to bite the bullet and fix the oil and production program.

I keep thinking that giving the convoying programming a good lobotomy would help solve the problem quickly. Some suggest giving us a button to order Manual Control. That would be nice as long as the program does the land portion of the route, that it seems to do very well.

The biggest problem is the program thinks too much and too often. Every time we press that recomputed button it's like shooting craps hoping you don't roll snake eyes and crap out. Every time we exit and go back into the Production Planning screen the program keeps rethinking things. I wish Steve could stop the program from doing any convoy routing thinking when we enter that screen during any phase that aren't the main Preliminary and Final Production Planning Phases.

The other big problem is when we press the recomputed button to recomputed one resource to perhaps idle factory we have to fear the program creating a new resource link to that factory. It would be nice if the program only recomputed the one resource and factory we're currently working with.

I've been trying to put on my old beta tester hat when encountering problems so I can either provide a saved game file or a good description of the problem. It's hard to know if it's a known problem or not. I'm hoping that I can help get MWiF working properly sooner.

Omnius

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 38
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 10:33:36 PM   
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Majorball68
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Maybe having the ability to put factories on idle is better than putting a resource on idle or make it possible to do both. I am finding that I have to keep setting resources to idle until eventually there is none available to go to that factory and then I able to turn them back on one by one and route them to places I want them to go.

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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 11:23:56 PM   
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lomyrin
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The desire for full manual control of the convoy and resource routing has been voiced off and on by the beta testers but the argument against it is that the trade agreements and possible losses due to search and seizure have to be complied with ahead of other routings. With full manual control that would no longer be true and the game could end up in violation of the rules by such manual routings.

Improvements are still needed though.

(in reply to Majorball68)
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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/6/2014 11:28:57 PM   
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paulderynck
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I have had more success using the form lately if I clear any pre-existing defaults and overrides, then set all the defaults I think are needed, and then just press Recompute once. If the result still has something wrong, then I set a default for what is wrong and Recompute again.

IMO the statement: "Steve has been reluctant to take the plunge and fix this programming nightmare." is unfair, false, and misleading. My experience is that Steve is never reluctant try and fix anything. The true situation is: Where do these fixes stand in overall priority on the list of things Steve has to work on? When a game-stopping bug is found, won't that have to be priority one? And it would seem NetPlay has to be next highest priority.

Sure, we all would love to see something fixed sooner than later, but there may be nearly as many "somethings" as there are posts in the Tech Support forum.

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Post #: 41
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 12:16:08 AM   
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Cad908
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I have had more success using the form lately if I clear any pre-existing defaults and overrides, then set all the defaults I think are needed, and then just press Recompute once. If the result still has something wrong, then I set a default for what is wrong and Recompute again.


I will second what Paul suggested.

The first turn for the CW using Oil Rules I typically idled all the resources and then setup defaults for only the Oil. My default routes would save Oil around the globe (Canada, UK, India and Burma) and have the remaining used for production in the UK. When this was finished, I would recompute, adjust the default Oil routes as needed until I liked the layout. Finally, I would organize the non-oil resources and do them in chunks until everything was perfect. With logical defaults in place, the only adjustments needed were when lending resources / BP began.

The system was still frustrating, but I could usually get something close to my plan. I have not tested this approach on the latest iteration of production planning, but it might help you get started.

-Rob


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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 12:56:46 AM   
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brian brian
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enforcing Trade Agreements doesn't ring true as a very serious issue to me. a manual system could be built that locks in only the Trade Agreements, of which there is only one to really deal with that goes overseas, and there is no other trade going on those routes simultaneously and should have zero impact on anything done manually (and yet I read that the one and only Trade Agreement the automatic convoy system has to keep straight … is not kept straight). in all other rules-based Trade Agreements, the Major Power receiving the resources is responsible for supplying the convoys to pick them up. if they botch that, they simply don't get the resources.

I have no idea how programming Search&Seizure would work. I have played entire games of World in Flames with out there ever being a Search & Seizure. It would be a nice rule to code, sure. Many, many, many other rules are more important.

Building an automatic convoy system is a worthy goal. However, it is not necessary. I get the impression that an automatic system has been attempted to please new players of the game, but this has come at the expense of experienced players. Somehow, "Over 2 Million Hours of World in Flames have been played" (quote from ADG recently) by players keeping track of convoy routes all by themselves, with just cardboard counters, a paper map, and a bit of paper and pencil. Surely we can be trusted to do it ourselves.

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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 2:12:48 AM   
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David Clark
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On that note, the impact of this bug (and many others) could be reduced if the developer would expose even a subset of the debug menu functions. I would be thrilled with the ability to simply assign production points manually to the powers during the production phase. I'm happy to keep track of resource/convoy/factory allocation outside the game, and just plug the results back in during the subsequent turn. This functionality exists in the debug menu; it's been hidden (I'm guessing) to reduce the complexity of bug report handling.

May I suggest that this decision be slightly modified by giving players partial access to this menu?

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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 2:55:29 AM   
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paulderynck
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

enforcing Trade Agreements doesn't ring true as a very serious issue to me.

Sometimes you can get strange things happening where FREX a lend to Russia is announced but by the end of the turn the CPs that were in the Arctic Sea zone for that purpose have been sunk or aborted. If a path for some of that lend exists going around Africa and into the Arabian Sea then it must be used for the lend. I can recall having to RTB some CPs so the lend became impossible because otherwise too much havoc was caused with the transportation of other resources.

Players over the board might not always see a path like that but the game is supposed to enforce the rules of the game. The program cannot selectively enforce the rules of the game.

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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 6:03:13 AM   
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AxelNL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: David Clark

On that note, the impact of this bug (and many others) could be reduced if the developer would expose even a subset of the debug menu functions. I would be thrilled with the ability to simply assign production points manually to the powers during the production phase. I'm happy to keep track of resource/convoy/factory allocation outside the game, and just plug the results back in during the subsequent turn. This functionality exists in the debug menu; it's been hidden (I'm guessing) to reduce the complexity of bug report handling.

May I suggest that this decision be slightly modified by giving players partial access to this menu?



That menu is prone to create serious problems if not handled very carefully. To make that foolproof is a major effort. I have stayed out of it, and only used it when there used to be more blocking issues before the release in order to test what happened afterwards.

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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 2:23:08 PM   
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brian brian
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Well I have to wonder then if the program enforces advanced designating of the resources being shipped somewhere. Traditionally, if a convoy line is broken, there is nothing in the rules that forces a player to have already declared what resources are being sent somewhere. So if the U-Boats completely wipe out the convoy line in the Arctic Ocean, the CW can just declare that the Malayan resources don't make it to Russia, even if the CW has no convoy connection to Malaya at all right then. Unless, of course, I have always just Played It Wrong, which is always entirely possible with World in Flames. If they were sending Build Points and they are now sitting at the bottom of the ocean, then you don't get them. Checking that one MP receives their lending and another MP doesn't use it seems simpler than trying to compute routes across a completely not mathematical net of sea zones around the world, with break points and movement restrictions and all the rest. That sounds crazy difficult, and I have worked with data structures, a long, long time ago.

So I don't know. I am about 3/4 done with cleaning out a laptop and getting it ready for a system OS upgrade, before I load any more material on it. Reading the board lately has me back to playing WiF solitaire, with Cyberboard, instead of making progress on that topic. I'll also be picking up the maps, after the discount is off, which I expect it might already be, so I can support this project. 100% rules enforcement is a nice goal. 100% not letting the owner of a game control their own game is not. Perhaps now that the product is out, it's time to start adding some things for the owners of the game to make the game do what they want.

But overall it looks like we are likely 6 months or more out from having an easy to use convoy system, if NetPlay is the priority. I would like to play this game at a high level. If I can't use the Oil rules or the Lend-Lease BPs rule, then I can't. Ultimately, MWiF will have to offer players the ability to just play the game with the counters on the map any way they want. If it doesn't, why would anyone pay a lot of money for it, over the free ways to do just that? The basic combat/movement game engine will have to be separated from the scenario engine. I'm sorry that is 'feature creep', but it is a feature a lot of players will want, and will expect. NetPlay Barbarossa and Guadalcanal will be fun. Global War without Oil or BP deliveries to Major Powers in the midst of sinking, will not. (And more Allied MPs will sink if saved Oil doesn't start working).

We all know a Debug feature could break the program. Not letting the customers access that is the antithesis of Open Source software, but then software is moving back to the completely closed direction with the rise of the mobile OS. Maybe giving the customers a powerful Debug override would include setting a header line in the game file that says Debug = ON. Any saved game that came in for a bug report with that line could be automatically deleted on the potential that everything is all jumbled up now. Any player that turned it on could have their NetPlay opponent, or someone loading a saved game from someone else could be notified. I don't see a huge problem with opening it. But of course, there is. It is probably yet more work to set it all up for the players to move the counters however they want.

And perhaps Russia can receive a BP or resource or Oil from the Allies now, I admit I don't know. But can it receive some of each from potentially 3 or 4 separated Allied portions of the map (UK, North America, India, Australia) through 3 or 4 separate ports of entry (Archangel, Murmansk, Persian Gulf, Vladivostok) into 3 or 4 separated pockets of Russian control? Breaking the world into separate worlds is another level of challenge programming to be sure, and sounds incredibly difficult. But it can be a part of playing a game of WiF.

(in reply to AxelNL)
Post #: 47
RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 5:26:56 PM   
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Centuur
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The debug feature for MWIF is not something which I would advise to go into the game at this moment. It takes a lot of time before you are getting to know when you can and when you can't use the feature (it might cause the program to crash if you are doing something which the thing isn't made for...). It would also need documentation on when you can use it and when not. It isn't entirely bug free either (but useful enough for beta testing).

But for the distant future: why not...


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RE: More Could Have Been Done - 1/7/2014 5:55:02 PM   
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markb50k
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Big picture, and this is just my opinion, warts and all, I am able to use the Production/Convoy functionality with acceptable effort and is not a game breaker to me. I've played a with-oil Global War to 1942 and now playing a no-oil-rule version and in both cases, you can make it work with some patience and attention to detail.

Just my $.02

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RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 5:24:30 AM   
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ashkpa
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I am also having trouble with CW convoys. In my case SO39 (first turn), I cannot get the two NEI oil (both in Palembang)to go straight to the East Indian Ocean (and then to Australia). One wants to go through the FR convoy in the S. China Sea every time (keeping the FR from getting the Indo-China resource). During set-up, everything seemed to work as I wanted, but not in the early production phase.

Thanks,

Pat

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RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 5:27:02 AM   
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paulderynck
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You should be able to use the Route function in Production Planning to select which convoys are used. This is described in the thread in WiF School.

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RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 11:52:39 AM   
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joshuamnave
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ashkpa

I am also having trouble with CW convoys. In my case SO39 (first turn), I cannot get the two NEI oil (both in Palembang)to go straight to the East Indian Ocean (and then to Australia). One wants to go through the FR convoy in the S. China Sea every time (keeping the FR from getting the Indo-China resource). During set-up, everything seemed to work as I wanted, but not in the early production phase.

Thanks,

Pat


Did Germany conquer the Netherlands in SO 39? I have trouble with having to manually reroute NEI convoys each turn after the Netherlands are attacked.

(in reply to ashkpa)
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RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 1:50:11 PM   
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celebrindal
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So my 2c on the subject.

1. We need to be able to manually override and keep those overrides regardless of what we have setup in trade agreements. The manditory agreement between USA and Jap is the only one that should have ramifications for shipping. In the scenario you get a vp for every convoy not in place, so something like a chit being removed or something similar for games where folks aren't using VP's. Otherwise let folks manually move stuff. Like a previous poster stated, we've been doing it via pen and paper for years we should be able to figure things out ;-)

2. Regarding comments about if a series of cp's get shot and the route used is gone..well in the pen and paper game the resource was wasted wasn't it? In real life if I'm shipping supplies via that particular convoy and it gets splatted, last time i looked materials didn't magically appear from somewhere else.. they were gone!

3. There are just way to many bugs and things you can't fix that you should be able to with the automatic system. A case in point in our current game I couldn't figure out why my caribbean convoys all of a sudden were short 1 cp and my line from india was all buggered up. The USA took the option to loan resources to china and setup a trade agreement to ship one resource.. blam the resource comes from the states via my car cp and uses my line all the way over to burma... and I can't cancel it!!

So things like that make me think we should go to a more manual process, or at least once someone has overridden things the program should NOT correct it. If need be have a popup showing a trade agreement problem perhaps but otherwise...

Thanks.

FYI, been playing since the ol paper game of 3rd edition and it was always a simple matter of x resources going through the sea areas, put x convoys.. we should be able to get to that stage?

(in reply to joshuamnave)
Post #: 53
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 4:31:00 PM   
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Linkowich
Matrix Recruit


 

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Joined: 12/3/2013
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I bought a game here for 150 bucks. The most expensive computer game I ever bought in my entire life (40 years old).

They should freakin hire more ppl and finish this game properly with netplay and fix all bugs and AI etc.

Every time I hear that one person ( Steve ) should fix this or fix that it gives me a shiver down my spine......

(in reply to Omnius)
Post #: 54
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 4:33:14 PM   
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Dabrion
Matrix Hero



Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Linkowich

I bought a game here for 150 bucks. The most expensive computer game I ever bought in my entire life (40 years old).

They should freakin hire more ppl and finish this game properly with netplay and fix all bugs and AI etc.

Every time I hear that one person ( Steve ) should fix this or fix that it gives me a shiver down my spine......

+1

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Linkowich)
Post #: 55
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 4:38:06 PM   
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Numdydar
Matrix Legion of Merit


 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
Why?

Many games these days are developed by just one person. Minecraft comes to mind. The Operational Art of War III is another one as is Strategic Command (although there is one programer and one helper involved if I understand the srtup there properly). These games are not being developed with massive amounts of money like Rockstar or Blizzard games. This is a very niche area so I am just happy someone, even if it just a single soul, is developing these games at all. Otherwise, we would not even have them at all.

(in reply to Linkowich)
Post #: 56
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 4:50:36 PM   
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Centuur
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8802
Joined: 6/3/2011
From: Hoorn (NED).
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Why?

Many games these days are developed by just one person. Minecraft comes to mind. The Operational Art of War III is another one as is Strategic Command (although there is one programer and one helper involved if I understand the srtup there properly). These games are not being developed with massive amounts of money like Rockstar or Blizzard games. This is a very niche area so I am just happy someone, even if it just a single soul, is developing these games at all. Otherwise, we would not even have them at all.


+1

Sure, we would like to see things different, but except when someone opens his wallet and contributes a huge amount to the development of MWIF, we won't see a lot of people working on it....

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 57
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 5:45:42 PM   
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Dabrion
Matrix Hero



Posts: 733
Joined: 11/5/2013
From: Northpole
Status: offline
How about it's not a $15 pledge, but a $150 purchase of a release (what does that even mean in your book?) software? TOAW comes from the same ****hole and SC costs twenty bucks. Both titles don't random a license!

_____________________________

“WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.”
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 58
RE: Still a Pain - 1/16/2014 11:28:13 PM   
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paulderynck
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: celebrindal

So my 2c on the subject.

1. We need to be able to manually override and keep those overrides regardless of what we have setup in trade agreements. The manditory agreement between USA and Jap is the only one that should have ramifications for shipping. In the scenario you get a vp for every convoy not in place, so something like a chit being removed or something similar for games where folks aren't using VP's. Otherwise let folks manually move stuff. Like a previous poster stated, we've been doing it via pen and paper for years we should be able to figure things out ;-)

2. Regarding comments about if a series of cp's get shot and the route used is gone..well in the pen and paper game the resource was wasted wasn't it? In real life if I'm shipping supplies via that particular convoy and it gets splatted, last time i looked materials didn't magically appear from somewhere else.. they were gone!

3. There are just way to many bugs and things you can't fix that you should be able to with the automatic system. A case in point in our current game I couldn't figure out why my caribbean convoys all of a sudden were short 1 cp and my line from india was all buggered up. The USA took the option to loan resources to china and setup a trade agreement to ship one resource.. blam the resource comes from the states via my car cp and uses my line all the way over to burma... and I can't cancel it!!

So things like that make me think we should go to a more manual process, or at least once someone has overridden things the program should NOT correct it. If need be have a popup showing a trade agreement problem perhaps but otherwise...

Thanks.

FYI, been playing since the ol paper game of 3rd edition and it was always a simple matter of x resources going through the sea areas, put x convoys.. we should be able to get to that stage?

Would you mind zipping and uploading to this thread your game save from the start of, or just prior to, the preliminary production phase near the end of the turn in question? Also list any other resource transport/production problems you have with that game.

The production GUI is not friendly, but I've played around with it quite a bit and I'd like to see if it can be made to obey your wishes.



_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to celebrindal)
Post #: 59
RE: Still a Pain - 1/17/2014 4:59:36 PM   
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Numdydar
Matrix Legion of Merit


 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

How about it's not a $15 pledge, but a $150 purchase of a release (what does that even mean in your book?) software? TOAW comes from the same ****hole and SC costs twenty bucks. Both titles don't random a license!


Just wondering why you bring up price when my point was discussing just a single person developing games? So it is ok for a $40 or less game to be developed by a single person versus a $100 one?

It is way obvious you are upset and blame/hate Matrix which is your right, but would it not be better to try and help to fix things or not be so negitive versus some of the stuff you post? But if you find posting like this makes you feel better, then go for it. I have no issue with anything you say as it definately provides me with a different viewpoint than my own

(in reply to Dabrion)
Post #: 60
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