Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

A quick look at the prices of physical and download only games here will show you a difference in price. Download only are less expensive.

Like this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

That's how Matrix chose to market it. They are not offering the game as a download without the manuals, they are offering the game as a download with the option to not ship the manuals.

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ORIGINAL: rbutters

Considering that probably a good 60-70% of that $99 actually goes towards paying for the books (if not more like 80-90%), it's absolutely nuts to charge $99 for a "computer game" that is basically a database & ruleset (no AI). The value in the original product WAS the books, according to most of you. Take the books away and you have something MUCH LESS. You have a database and ruleset, with no application outside hotseat or the most likely small player community. It's insane to charge $99 for a digital ruleset.

When I saw the front page note that a digital product was being offered I clicked right to it. Not because I would actually play it with another live human (I wouldn't), and not because it would give me years of single player enjoyment (no AI), but because I thought it would simply be fun to explore. I'd have made an immediate purchase at $40-60. But $99? Without the addons that actually warrant that price? Not a chance.

I'm sure I'll be flamed relentlessly, but it's a certainty I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Lost opportunity, Matrix. Very silly price.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

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ORIGINAL: paulderynck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

So far no answer has been given why the download version with just the game costs the same as the game and three hardback books. I am aware of how the game was released and how some claimed they would be happy with just downloading the game at the same price,...but as far as I am aware those people in no way speak for everyone.

The answer is immediately above in post #27. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't mean there's no answer.

He's looking for an answer from Matrix Games - like an official answer - not an answer from some pseudo spokesman or self assigned forum policeman.

He's entitled to ask - you can answer if you want, but he can choose to ignore your answer because he wants to know officially.

And as he said - the people who were willing to pay the same price without the books were not spokespeople for everyone. You probably only saw those answers in those threads because the rest couldn't be arsed to say that wasn't acceptable to them because of the hostility in this place.

If you don't like the "whining" and "carping" and "complaining" then don't read. Go play the game. And those terms used themselves are inflammatory.

HTF did you think this thread was going to go with that statement?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

Given the hostility in this place and (further) any price thread for any game, I don't see why that is strange at all. And yes - I do think that was an aspect.

This place is full of unofficial forum police. Whenever anyone brings up a price topic, it goes to hell in a hand basket.

There was a statement made by Erik that a statement would be made and everything went pretty quiet. I believe that was because people thought he was on the case.

I also believe, along with the hostility, that people didn't think for a split second that Matrix would select one product in their entire arsenal of games to set the DD version at the same price as the physical product. Especially as you lot were pointing out how important the books were and how big a part of the purchase it was.

Regardless - they were asking Matrix - not anyone else. For anyone else to answer, without an official answering, just means this thread goes round and round like all the others. I thought I explained this to you before.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

Given the hostility in this place and (further) any price thread for any game, I don't see why that is strange at all. And yes - I do think that was an aspect.

This place is full of unofficial forum police. Whenever anyone brings up a price topic, it goes to hell in a hand basket.

There was a statement made by Erik that a statement would be made and everything went pretty quiet. I believe that was because people thought he was on the case.

I also believe, along with the hostility, that people didn't think for a split second that Matrix would select one product in their entire arsenal of games to set the DD version at the same price as the physical product. Especially as you lot were pointing out how important the books were and how big a part of the purchase it was.

Regardless - they were asking Matrix - not anyone else. For anyone else to answer, without an official answering, just means this thread goes round and round like all the others. I thought I explained this to you before.

warspite1

You turn up from time to time to have a go (at whoever) - and in your posts complain that threads go round and round - but cannot see the irony that that, by posting, you are part of that process that you profess to be so fed up of. I thought I had explained this to you before?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
The green button works wonders for the blood pressure :)

And it's all the same nonsense. "I don't like the price!! Drop it so I can buy it."

Really, if they can't buy a *game*, they need a long, hard, look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

And being a private company, they don't *have* to explain their pricing decisions to anyone here. Don't know why there are those who think they're entitled to it.

CwiE, a computer port of an old game, sells for $60. For those who don't know what that is, it's SPI/DG's War in Europe. Fore about $40 more, you get the whole bleeping WW2. And in more detail.

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ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

Even though I am okay with paying the price, I agree with JudgeDredd.

The hostility in these threads have put me off this game a bit, maybe I need to wait for the AI expansion or play solo.

I thought we had a good community on Matrix but it seems to have changed. Some game threads are good and friendly, but I am noticing a lot more hostility and no tolerance for people with different views.

Hopefully we can one day go back to a friendly helpful community like we had in the past.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Almost every game sold by matrix has a physical version and a download version....with the download version costing $10 less because the download version costs less to produce.

This games physical version has even more than the other physical versions with the 3 hardbound books,..common sense would dictate that the download version for this game would get an even larger discount because of the lack of the cost of the hardbound books.


I do not want the books. By paying the same price for the game without the books I would in essence STILL be buying the books,...but just not getting them. Who thought this would be a good idea? If I didn't think the original purchase of the books and game was worth it because I do not want to pay for books I do not want....why on earth would I want an even worse deal of still buying the books but just not getting them?

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ORIGINAL: markb50k

Kinda simple, really.

On day 1, the primary complaint was NOT the price of $99 (many were hoping for around $100, but estimates as high as $150-200 were being assumed by many prior to release).  The complaint was that due to shipping etc the cost was:

(game + books) = $99 + tacked on shipping + customs

now it is:

game = $99


The other side of the argument really stops right there.

But, I would add, that despite all of the above details, lets not ignore the basic fact that $99 for a game of this magnitude is a good price, and is comparable in value to games even within Matrix.  WITP-AE for $80, for example. 

Your argument to the casual observer seems a no-brainer, but the real history of this is anything but casual.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

oh - so it's only regular posters that can post?

I am merely pointing out that you are keeping the thread in perpetual motion.

He asked a question of Matrix and as usual the pseudo employees show up.

For the record - the reason I only "turn up from time to time" is certain individuals made this place pretty uninhabitable. Matrix is a fantastic company. Their decisions seem ludicrous from time to time - but it's their business. That doesn't mean people can't ask questions of them.

I am not fed up of any process. You are. Look at your first post in this thread (and any other one that dares to ask Matrix a question that doesn't come under your fictional list of "acceptable questions"). You have repeatedly stated these threads get on your bloody nerves and yet you post in them. I pointed this out to you last time. You keep it at the forefront of the forum (though in this case you have a free ride on that because it's a sticky).

I'm not fed up with these threads popping up. Nor am I fed up with them being kept in a vicious circle - doesn't bother me one bit. I'm just a voice that says "He is asking Matrix - NOT YOU!".

And I'm not "complaining" about the thread going round and round - I'm simply pointing out the irony (seems we both like that word) of you posting in a thread you dislike so vehemently.

Anyway - carry on - but he IS asking the question of Matrix and he IS wanting an answer from them...not anyone else.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: Centuur

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Almost every game sold by matrix has a physical version and a download version....with the download version costing $10 less because the download version costs less to produce.

This games physical version has even more than the other physical versions with the 3 hardbound books,..common sense would dictate that the download version for this game would get an even larger discount because of the lack of the cost of the hardbound books.


I do not want the books. By paying the same price for the game without the books I would in essence STILL be buying the books,...but just not getting them. Who thought this would be a good idea? If I didn't think the original purchase of the books and game was worth it because I do not want to pay for books I do not want....why on earth would I want an even worse deal of still buying the books but just not getting them?

That policy don't seem to be the case with MWIF. Why? Who knows? Perhaps ADG has defined a minimum price for the game... Perhaps the contract with Steve has a minimum price in it... Perhaps Matrix don't want to do so with MWIF, as they think they have done enough to satisfy the consumer. Anyhow, that shouldn't be our concern. You either buy the game for this price or not.
Or you can wait for a lower price in the future. However, if there is a minimum price agreed on in contract, you may have to wait forever...

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

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ORIGINAL: warspite1
No they were not spokespeople for everyone, but its slightly strange that not one person - not one - refuted that statement (which was made many times loud and clear) and said that NO, they would want a cheaper version.

As for the "probable" reason you gave for people not stating they expected it to be cheaper.... I don't really think so do you, not when this was such a hot topic at the time?

Given the hostility in this place and (further) any price thread for any game, I don't see why that is strange at all. And yes - I do think that was an aspect.

This place is full of unofficial forum police. Whenever anyone brings up a price topic, it goes to hell in a hand basket.

There was a statement made by Erik that a statement would be made and everything went pretty quiet. I believe that was because people thought he was on the case.

I also believe, along with the hostility, that people didn't think for a split second that Matrix would select one product in their entire arsenal of games to set the DD version at the same price as the physical product. Especially as you lot were pointing out how important the books were and how big a part of the purchase it was.

Regardless - they were asking Matrix - not anyone else. For anyone else to answer, without an official answering, just means this thread goes round and round like all the others. I thought I explained this to you before.

warspite1

You turn up from time to time to have a go (at whoever) - and in your posts complain that threads go round and round - but cannot see the irony that that, by posting, you are part of that process that you profess to be so fed up of. I thought I had explained this to you before?

The green button works wonders for the blood pressure :)

And it's all the same nonsense. "I don't like the price!! Drop it so I can buy it."

Really, if they can't buy a *game*, they need a long, hard, look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

And being a private company, they don't *have* to explain their pricing decisions to anyone here. Don't know why there are those who think they're entitled to it.

CwiE, a computer port of an old game, sells for $60. For those who don't know what that is, it's SPI/DG's War in Europe. Fore about $40 more, you get the whole bleeping WW2. And in more detail.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
The green button works wonders for the blood pressure :)

And it's all the same nonsense. "I don't like the price!! Drop it so I can buy it."

Really, if they can't buy a *game*, they need a long, hard, look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

And being a private company, they don't *have* to explain their pricing decisions to anyone here. Don't know why there are those who think they're entitled to it.

CwiE, a computer port of an old game, sells for $60. For those who don't know what that is, it's SPI/DG's War in Europe. Fore about $40 more, you get the whole bleeping WW2. And in more detail.

I don't recall anyone demanding anything from Matrix, anyone suggesting Matrix HAVE to explain their position or suggesting they (as the potential customer) are entitled anything.

Nonsense? Really? So your posts contain more valid points than anyone else's here right? Wrong!

"if they can't buy a game" - I don't see anyone posting they "can't" buy the game. The question asked, the original question, was why is DD the same price as a physical copy for a) a lesser product and b) that isn't the way Matrix have operated in the past. It could be a change in policy...who knows. Point is, they don't want an answer from me or you - do they?

The question was asked and as usual, the usual suspects jumped on the board to piss fuel all over some tinder wood whilst bitching about a thread being created "again".

I was merely pointing out he can ask the question if he wants. For you, the self appointed forum policemen or Matrix spokesperson (choose whichever one you wish), you are more than entitled to answer - but be aware he asked the question of Matrix - not you lot - and as such will likely continue asking until he gets an answer (not that he's entitled one nor should necessarily expect one) or gets bored.

On top of that - it's not only what was posted in the responses, but the tone in which those responses were posted. In an extremely condescending manner.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian
The green button works wonders for the blood pressure :)

And it's all the same nonsense. "I don't like the price!! Drop it so I can buy it."

Really, if they can't buy a *game*, they need a long, hard, look in the mirror to see what the problem is.

And being a private company, they don't *have* to explain their pricing decisions to anyone here. Don't know why there are those who think they're entitled to it.

CwiE, a computer port of an old game, sells for $60. For those who don't know what that is, it's SPI/DG's War in Europe. Fore about $40 more, you get the whole bleeping WW2. And in more detail.

I don't recall anyone demanding anything from Matrix, anyone suggesting Matrix HAVE to explain their position or suggesting they (as the potential customer) are entitled anything.

Nonsense? Really? So your posts contain more valid points than anyone else's here right? Wrong!

"if they can't buy a game" - I don't see anyone posting they "can't" buy the game. The question asked, the original question, was why is DD the same price as a physical copy for a) a lesser product and b) that isn't the way Matrix have operated in the past. It could be a change in policy...who knows. Point is, they don't want an answer from me or you - do they?

The question was asked and as usual, the usual suspects jumped on the board to piss fuel all over some tinder wood whilst bitching about a thread being created "again".

I was merely pointing out he can ask the question if he wants. For you, the self appointed forum policemen or Matrix spokesperson (choose whichever one you wish), you are more than entitled to answer - but be aware he asked the question of Matrix - not you lot - and as such will likely continue asking until he gets an answer (not that he's entitled one nor should necessarily expect one) or gets bored.

On top of that - it's not only what was posted in the responses, but the tone in which those responses were posted. In an extremely condescending manner.

warspite1

Well then re-read some of the pricing posts - you obviously missed the point of many.

And so typical - you complain at the tone of those that support the Matrix position - but not those that seek to rubbish it. How convenient....

Condescending??? "I thought I explained this to you before". Pot. Kettle. Black.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

Even though I am okay with paying the price, I agree with JudgeDredd.

The hostility in these threads have put me off this game a bit, maybe I need to wait for the AI expansion or play solo.

I thought we had a good community on Matrix but it seems to have changed. Some game threads are good and friendly, but I am noticing a lot more hostility and no tolerance for people with different views.

Hopefully we can one day go back to a friendly helpful community like we had in the past.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

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ORIGINAL: Manstein63

When the WIF was first released you were given a Free Download along with the physical copy so it seem reasonable to me that if you just want the download version you should pay the same price. after all you are getting the exact same game with the same support you just don't have the free CD & Books. BTW how many people have had to pay an additional cost I'm interested because I only paid retail.
Manstein63

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

Almost every game sold by matrix has a physical version and a download version....with the download version costing $10 less because the download version costs less to produce.

This games physical version has even more than the other physical versions with the 3 hardbound books,..common sense would dictate that the download version for this game would get an even larger discount because of the lack of the cost of the hardbound books.


I do not want the books. By paying the same price for the game without the books I would in essence STILL be buying the books,...but just not getting them. Who thought this would be a good idea? If I didn't think the original purchase of the books and game was worth it because I do not want to pay for books I do not want....why on earth would I want an even worse deal of still buying the books but just not getting them?

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

Even though I am okay with paying the price, I agree with JudgeDredd.

The hostility in these threads have put me off this game a bit, maybe I need to wait for the AI expansion or play solo.

I thought we had a good community on Matrix but it seems to have changed. Some game threads are good and friendly, but I am noticing a lot more hostility and no tolerance for people with different views.

Hopefully we can one day go back to a friendly helpful community like we had in the past.

warspite1

Here we go again - "the hostility in these threads". Where the hell did that come from?

Yes, we have a core of a very good community at Matrix - no it has not changed. Look at the WITP-AE thread, look at the MWIF thread, look at the CTGW thread. There are people that want to play the game, help others to play the game, and there are people - in all forums - that want to trash everything. The core posters remain in each. The trash ultimately get bored and go away.

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ORIGINAL: Aurelian

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ORIGINAL: warspite1

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ORIGINAL: JiminyJickers

Even though I am okay with paying the price, I agree with JudgeDredd.

The hostility in these threads have put me off this game a bit, maybe I need to wait for the AI expansion or play solo.

I thought we had a good community on Matrix but it seems to have changed. Some game threads are good and friendly, but I am noticing a lot more hostility and no tolerance for people with different views.

Hopefully we can one day go back to a friendly helpful community like we had in the past.

warspite1

Here we go again - "the hostility in these threads". Where the hell did that come from?

Yes, we have a core of a very good community at Matrix - no it has not changed. Look at the WITP-AE thread, look at the MWIF thread, look at the CTGW thread. There are people that want to play the game, help others to play the game, and there are people - in all forums - that want to trash everything. The core posters remain in each. The trash ultimately get bored and go away.

It all stems from those who just won't be satisfied. A d/l only option was wanted, it was delivered. But no, it isn't good enough. No matter how you slice it, it's a bargin. I wish they could do the same thing with SPW's WW1 series. That would be a freaking bargin at $100.

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805