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Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flashpoint Campaigns

 
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Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and Flash... - 1/22/2014 5:35:24 PM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Well, I've been playing the demos for both Command Ops and Flashpoint and can't seem to make up my mind. I like both...but can't get both at this time.

One thing I want to learn from playing these sims is about tactics both offensively and defensively. I don't necessarily WANT to micromanage, but will do so if the need arises. So I do like that nature of Command Ops.

But at the same time I've played more of the Flashpoint demo...it's something about it. It's very intense, but also tiring because of it. heheeh I am becoming more comfortable with it though.

I hope its appropriate to ask what your thoughts are on these two fine games. Ultimately it is my choice, but I'd like some perspectives if you don't mind. Thanx for your help.
Post #: 1
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/22/2014 6:00:28 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		I have both. Couldnt resist.

_____________________________

"One must always distrust the report of troop commanders: 'We have no fuel' [...] You see, if they become tired they suddenly lack fuel" - Heinz Guderian, Panzer Leader

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 2
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/22/2014 6:12:10 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		It seems you have a difficult choice to make. If you find yourself playing one demo more than another, then you may have already made your decision.

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 3
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/22/2014 6:13:24 PM   
parmenio

 

Posts: 266
Joined: 8/6/2009
From: United Kingdom
Status: offline 		I also have both.

Two of the best games, I've ever paid money for. Definitely in my Top 10 of all-time.

Command Ops has no PBEM and uses Pausable Continuous Time rather than any turn-based design.

They seem to have development teams who share a similar ethos - massive attention to detail and a desire to not release stuff until it's ready to go (I know that frustrates some but I'd rather the patch I got worked)

Currently differentiated by the periods of warfare they address - so that may be an issue for you but what I would say is that I generally don't have as much interest in modern warfare as I do for WWII (or Napoleonics for that matter) and I bought this with no hesitation at all and haven't regretted it - I think the price is excellent value for money. I splurged a lot more on WITE and haven't played it in months.




< Message edited by parmenio -- 1/22/2014 7:14:04 PM >

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 4
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/22/2014 6:34:02 PM   
CiniKo

 

Posts: 22
Joined: 11/9/2013
Status: offline 		From my point of view I chose FC:RS because:

I was bored sim on Second World War subject,
bored of click fest ala Wargame Airbattle with a bad AI in single player.
Very interested, instead in the Cold War and was looking for a sim very quick to learn, but massive attention to details that was challenging.

At the end I found and I bought this. Best buy 2013.

LuCa




(in reply to parmenio)
Post #: 5
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/23/2014 7:46:48 PM   
Werewolf13

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Well, I've been playing the demos for both Command Ops and Flashpoint and can't seem to make up my mind. I like both...but can't get both at this time.



I too have both. Both are fun to play. Different, very different time periods covered so the 1st thing you need to consider is which time period is more to your liking, more interesting, more challenging to you.

After that - well.

Probably not the right forum to say this but as much fun as Red Storm is Command Ops is a way more mature product and IMO gets way more right than FPC:RS does. CO is fought on larger maps with more types of terrain, more variance in elevations and at a higher resolution than RS (100 yds CO vs 500 yds RS). CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits.

RS requires a more hands on approach to play than CO does and depending on your play style that may or may not be a plus.

CO has many more scenarios available in the base game than RS and has two DLC expansions currently available with a major upgrade coming soon (well - at least that's what they claim - I'll be surprised if we see it before July but more likely we won't see it before next year). But as I stated before CO is a much more mature product than RS.

I imagine - hope - that eventually RS too will be a mature product that does what it is meant to do and does it as well as CO does.

Until that day comes - and since the OP asked - pesonally my recommendation would be to go with Command Ops.

_____________________________

Freedom is not free! Nor should it be. For men being men will neither fight for nor value that which is free.

Michael Andress

(in reply to CiniKo)
Post #: 6
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/23/2014 8:42:30 PM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

Probably not the right forum to say this but as much fun as Red Storm is Command Ops is a way more mature product and IMO gets way more right than FPC:RS does.


This is exactly the right forum to say this. We agree that FPC:RS is a new product. We are working on changes and features as we go. That's why we have a wish list. You input would be good on that thread as well.

As far as content is concerned I've already created 2 campaigns and 4 scenarios since the release with more on the way. All of which was, or will be, free to you. Mods are being created, content is being added, the game is being tweaked. As you said, all of that takes time, and a willingness of the developers to do it.

One of your comments is concerning scale. WWII is a much reduced scale compared to WWIII. The ranges and weaponry is different. When we take FPC to a WWII setting our scale will be smaller as well. Do they plan on expanding Command Ops to a modern setting?

Thanks for voicing your opinion, we appreciate it.

Good Hunting.

MR


< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 1/23/2014 9:44:43 PM >

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Werewolf13)
Post #: 7
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/23/2014 9:53:07 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to Mad Russian)
Post #: 8
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 2:32:06 AM   
demiller


Posts: 142
Joined: 2/7/2012
Status: offline 		I play both of these games extensively. IMHO these are two of the absolute "must have" games if you're a modern computer wargamer. Both demonstrate how moving from board games to the computer can allow a level of simulation of the commander's role that is far more sophisticated and realistic than really just about anything else. Regardless of which you get first, I would recommend planning for how to get both; you won't be sorry you did.


_____________________________

AKA panzerde

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 9
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 5:09:24 AM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Thank you all for your answers. I appreciate it.

(in reply to demiller)
Post #: 10
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 7:07:39 AM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		Flashpoint is faster-paced and is somehow more satisfactory because of it.

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 11
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 8:24:01 AM   
daferg

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline 		I was in the same boat as you about two weeks ago deciding between those two titles. I, obviously, chose Flashpoint Campaigns and I don't regret it. My only complaint is there should be warning on the intro screen. "This game is addictive and may cause lack of sleep". I told myself one more turn a little after midnight and here it is 0418. I did some quick math and if I finish this scenario I'm on and go to bed, I'll get about an hour of sleep before my kids wake me up at 0700 for breakfast. Don't say I didn't warn you.

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 12
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 9:24:56 AM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline 		That's it - Flashpoint is just more addictive.
In Command Ops you set out your orders and you watch things progress - get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process. There are intense moments for sure, and it is more detailed I think but it is just less addictive.

Flashpoint just has that "terrible" green glowing start button. It just wants to be pressed.
You set your orders, hit start and then just watch the awesomeness unfold. And it can go well, you just want to set more orders and finish this scenario - or it can go wrong and you want to adjust and try to save the situation. More often than not I have found myself promising I would go to bed when this next turn has been played out - and then braking that promise until the scenario has finished.

< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/24/2014 10:33:32 AM >

(in reply to daferg)
Post #: 13
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 12:15:07 PM   
BletchleyGeek


Posts: 4713
Joined: 11/26/2009
From: Living in the fair city of Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents.


Not so biased mate. FP is truly excellent, and I salute you!

And Command Ops isn't a "spectator sports" kind of experience. With all due respect: that's a very superficial assessment which won't stand a close look. Doing that thing - "get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process" - will end up with the AI or a human pooin' into your OODA loop

Just my very biased two OZ dollar cents

_____________________________


(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 14
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 12:19:45 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

Posts: 335
Joined: 5/24/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek


quote:

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

Werewolf1326 sums it up well, but I will take exception to the following: CO has more types of units, more weapons, and more human factors modeled than RS and those are all benefits. I'll say we both model all of the relevant units. They have supply units by virtue of the scale, but we have helicopters. Again with platforms and weapons we both represent the vast majority of equipment the forces would have had or used. We model, but don't display a number of soft factors that are in the data and the game. Looking at a screen shot of CO we both cover the same factors, in some cases with different names. Again I think both games cover what is needed for scale and result.

My very biased 2 cents.


Not so biased mate. FP is truly excellent, and I salute you!

And Command Ops isn't a "spectator sports" kind of experience. With all due respect: that's a very superficial assessment which won't stand a close look. Doing that thing - "get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process" - will end up with the AI or a human pooin' into your OODA loop

Just my very biased two OZ dollar cents


Well good sir, why on earth did they implement a time advance button then? :) To shorten your OODA on purpose as a sort of self-flaggelation? No mate, you can get a cup of coffee if you want. The pace is much slower. I won many a battle whilst enjoying the sweet aroma of arabesque beans.
After all, a Form Up Time of 20 minutes actually takes 20 real minutes and with the order delay and easily overloaded staff you know you shouldn't respond to every twitch on the battlefield.

Of course FPRS is "slow" as you can even walk your doggie when you don't press that start button, but somehow you feel that doggie needs to hold up because you will do just one turn more...


< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 1/24/2014 1:56:28 PM >

(in reply to BletchleyGeek)
Post #: 15
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 12:35:29 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		The two games really can't be compared..the only real element that is the same is it's a PC wargame and it's 2D.

Both game are outstanding and my two favourite wargames.

_____________________________

My website


https://www.awargamersneedfulthings.co.uk/

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 16
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 2:04:10 PM   
cbelva


Posts: 1843
Joined: 3/26/2005
Status: offline 		I hate to say it, but I agree with wodin. They are both very good wargames. They are both very different from each other but what they do they do well. Commands Ops has been out for quite a few years (I think the first edition came out over 10 years ago). FPC has been out for only a few months. Commands Ops has grown up quite well and is still growing. FPC is still in its adolescent stage and has lots of room to grow.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 17
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 2:25:25 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Both are excellent game. Red Storm does give you that action feel by the scale of the game. CO has some down time as you maneuver larger forces to fight battles that are basically at the size of Red Storm. In CO you have to worry about supply and operations are over days. WE really like the crew at Panther games and there games are detailed and fun to play. The choice is really do you want operational level or grand tactical or do you want WW2 or WW3. Either way I believe you will enjoy the game.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to cbelva)
Post #: 18
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/24/2014 2:28:11 PM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		I have to say I finding it interesting that a number of people have mentioned getting into the "just one more turn" mode while playing. For a pure wargame I think that is pretty cool and somewhat unique. Now, if you haven't gone to the Grogheads site and voted for us as best wargame (digital) please do. Shameless plug

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to CapnDarwin)
Post #: 19
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/25/2014 4:08:49 AM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

That's it - Flashpoint is just more addictive.
In Command Ops you set out your orders and you watch things progress - get a cup of coffee while you're at it, even read the odd newspaper in the process. There are intense moments for sure, and it is more detailed I think but it is just less addictive.

Flashpoint just has that "terrible" green glowing start button. It just wants to be pressed.
You set your orders, hit start and then just watch the awesomeness unfold. And it can go well, you just want to set more orders and finish this scenario - or it can go wrong and you want to adjust and try to save the situation. More often than not I have found myself promising I would go to bed when this next turn has been played out - and then braking that promise until the scenario has finished.


Golly...you've got it bad. I believe there are folks who have gone to school to help you overcome some of these issues you've listed above. It may take a 12 step process.

I will keep you in my thoughts.

(in reply to CaptCarnage)
Post #: 20
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/25/2014 7:55:53 AM   
daferg

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 11/22/2010
Status: offline
[/quote]

Golly...you've got it bad. I believe there are folks who have gone to school to help you overcome some of these issues you've listed above. It may take a 12 step process.

I will keep you in my thoughts.
[/quote]

I got a good chuckle out of this...."My name is Ferg and I'm addicted to Flashpoint Campaigns."

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 21
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/25/2014 9:55:33 AM   
Noypi53

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/14/2007
Status: offline 		I have both games & are great operational warfare simulations. FP:RS's turn-based phases are better for me as I find CO's Pausable Continuos Time Phases can sometimes can get hectic when the action heats up. But, that's just me (was never very good with RTS games, as well).

Looking forward to new campaigns & scenarios (in update 2.03?). Hope that there can be Middle East battles (Yon Kippur; 6-Day War) soon, as well as WWII scenarios & campaigns.

(in reply to daferg)
Post #: 22
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/25/2014 5:18:21 PM   
Enigma6584

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 9/23/2010
Status: offline 		When in doubt, get both. That is what I did and happy I did.

(in reply to Noypi53)
Post #: 23
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/25/2014 10:20:05 PM   
WABAC

 

Posts: 337
Joined: 1/25/2014
Status: offline 		I like to be able to get some things done around the house while the helos are detecting radar.

In the long run you will end up getting both. And you will be happy you did.

(in reply to Enigma6584)
Post #: 24
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/26/2014 12:08:21 AM   
CapnDarwin


Posts: 8467
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: Newark, OH
Status: offline 		Yea, helo radar detection is toned waaaaaay down in 2.03.

_____________________________

OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LLC

(in reply to WABAC)
Post #: 25
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/26/2014 6:57:59 PM   
Moltke71


Posts: 1253
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

The two games really can't be compared..the only real element that is the same is it's a PC wargame and it's 2D.

Both game are outstanding and my two favourite wargames.


+! The OP should consider cheating at a game of chance to get the money to buy both.

_____________________________

Jim Cobb

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 26
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/26/2014 10:11:27 PM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Hahaha....

Well If you ain't cheatin...You ain't trying I guess.

I don't have enough time to get both. For one I've got 5 young kids...not much time. In addition, I've bought too many games including CMANO and Steam and Iron.

Since I've started wargaming VERY RECENTLY...a few months ago....I've got too much with the games listed above. Even though, since I have a chance to get one as a gift, I'll take that chance.

Both...well, unfortunately that won't happen. My wife wouldn't be very happy with me.

(in reply to Moltke71)
Post #: 27
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/26/2014 10:57:53 PM   
Moltke71


Posts: 1253
Joined: 9/23/2000
Status: offline 		I'm so lucky. No kids; my wife says games keep me away from bars and floozies. I let her have her dreams.

_____________________________

Jim Cobb

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 28
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/31/2014 4:06:35 AM   
Chicharito19

 

Posts: 271
Joined: 11/16/2013
Status: offline 		Thanx for your help gents. I decided to roll with Command Ops. Great sims...tough choice. I went with the historical content of Command Ops.

(in reply to Moltke71)
Post #: 29
RE: Perspectives on two awesome sims, Command Ops and F... - 1/31/2014 4:54:46 AM   
Mad Russian


Posts: 13256
Joined: 3/16/2008
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Don't spend all your money in the future because Flashpoint Campaigns is heading for historical content is coming soon, in an expansion near you!

Good Hunting.

MR

_____________________________

The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.

(in reply to Chicharito19)
Post #: 30
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