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Backup Astronauts - 1/27/2014 7:31:12 PM   
nico7550

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline 		Maybe an idea ?

Backup astronaut allow:
-The use of the "crew can die" xml tag during preparation step.
(Like for the original Gemini 9 astronauts).
-New events (injured/sick/died/captured(!)/etc...)

It could be a difficulty settings to activate ?

This give more immersion
Post #: 1
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/28/2014 12:22:49 AM   
CowboyRonin


Posts: 360
Joined: 8/14/2009
Status: offline 		I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish - the "CrewCanPerish" tag is only triggered if the mission is a catastrophic failure. The game does not really simulate the months of training and preparation for a given mission; the backup crews were intended to step in if something happened to a crew member during that time period (such as Ken Mattingly being exposed to measles just before the launch of Apollo 13). If you can provide some more insight for me, I'll log it.

_____________________________

Matrix forum liaison to Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager team
WitW/WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to nico7550)
Post #: 2
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/28/2014 7:09:21 AM   
nico7550

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline 		Here is what I was thinking:
It will increase a little bit the astronaut management part and not let you achieve a lot of mission with only 5 or 6 astronauts.
It will reflect the reality
It will increase difficulty
It will force the player to use more the training option
It will add new events when turn start
It will recenter a litlle bit the game on the astronaut and less on the hardware

:-)

(in reply to CowboyRonin)
Post #: 3
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/28/2014 8:46:28 AM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CowboyRonin

I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish - the "CrewCanPerish" tag is only triggered if the mission is a catastrophic failure. The game does not really simulate the months of training and preparation for a given mission; the backup crews were intended to step in if something happened to a crew member during that time period (such as Ken Mattingly being exposed to measles just before the launch of Apollo 13). If you can provide some more insight for me, I'll log it.

the suggestion might work if random events would be integrated: not passing a medical test, sickness, accident...

(in reply to CowboyRonin)
Post #: 4
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/28/2014 10:25:43 AM   
nats


Posts: 80
Joined: 5/28/2009
From: York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Templer

the suggestion might work if random events would be integrated: not passing a medical test, sickness, accident...


I am certainly hoping that events like this do get added at some point to add a bit of variation and surprise to the gameplay. At the moment the game is too predictable. This kind of event such as

'Apollo 2 has suffered a fire during testing and you have lost both astronauts. Do you wish to use two other astronauts as replacements (one will need to be be removed from training) or scrub the mission. If you scrub the mission you will lose 3000 prestige. If you carry on with the mission you will lose 1000 prestige but all crew invoved will suffer a 50% chance of losing 10% morale. Either way the mission will be delayed by one season. If you remove an astronaut from training he will lose all training benefits and need to be reassigned.'

I love these sort of events where you are forced to choose between the devil and the deep blue sea. This kind of thing really increases immersion and user involvement.

Also goes without saying that you would see a screen with the astronauts funeral afterwards either one you chose and either way it will delay you by a season as well whilst you get back up to speed.

I think this kind of variable event that is constructed automatically from a few different variables is relatively easy to program and very effective. For example the bit about astronaut training would only be added into the text if you needed to remove an astronaut from training. Otherwise that bit of text wouldnt show up in the event box. And if you didnt have two spare astronauts you would only get the fire message and the seasons delay and lose the prestige, you wouldnt get any options.

I know these sorts of events can be a fair amount of work but they add immensely to the game. Paradox's games include a lot of events like this, some of them chained (ie affected by previous events decisions or affecting the appearance of later events) and they really spice up an otherwise pretty standard strategy game (Paradox put in special events for most of the main countries as well as a few standardised events for everyone).

I would love to see different events, both positive and negative, for all the project phases: early R&D (design, engine testing, etc), later R&D (fabrication, advanced flight testing, etc), project assembly, project scheduling (weather delays etc).

And could events even be part of the mission flight itself? If there are choices to be made mid-mission that can be corrected by the astronauts or command crew (for example the CO2 problems with Apollo 13, false alarms mid mission (happened loads of times on real missions), some of these could almost be problem solving events where if you choose the wrong solution the mission suffers a failure, and if you choose the right one the mission is saved. Of course with false alarms its a matter of just tossing a coin sometimes as they did in real life, sometimes they will be false sometimes they will be real.

Some events can be time constrained ie only happen at a particular date and some events can be caused by a user choice for example choosing to sack an astronaut or whatever. Some events might happen in every game just as immersion fillers (for example important news that has happened around the world)- these might be added to the newscasts before every new season. Some events could be economical events that cause you to lose money or gain money. And some of these events could be slightly randomised to make each play through slightly different.

How great would missions and the whole game become then when nothing can be predicted at 100% anymore without the chance of an event cropping up to ruin all your plans (or save the day if a positive event)?!! Could really increase the tension and surprise throughout the whole game I think. And its the kind of thing that, once the mechanics are provided for in the game engine, modders can take the game after release and start adding loads more events.

< Message edited by nats -- 1/28/2014 11:57:30 AM >

_____________________________

"Its life Jim, but not as we know it"

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 5
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/28/2014 2:48:41 PM   
Templer_12


Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/5/2009
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Such additional, unforeseen events.

I would imagine that these increase the replay value.
Definitely the drama...

(in reply to nats)
Post #: 6
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/29/2014 2:04:12 AM   
CowboyRonin


Posts: 360
Joined: 8/14/2009
Status: offline 		I'm going to log the suggestion for random events; I can see where that is going. The backup astronaut idea is still not something I can really get my head around without the concept of mission training, which we don't have right now. If we had to identify astronauts 1-2 seasons in advance for a mission, then I could see backups. Ignacio is trying to get around the 5-6 astronaut problem by adding goals that require a larger astronaut corps.

_____________________________

Matrix forum liaison to Buzz Aldrin's Space Program Manager team
WitW/WitE2 Alpha tester

(in reply to Templer_12)
Post #: 7
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/29/2014 6:13:46 AM   
kokubokan25


Posts: 1252
Joined: 7/19/2004
From: Iliaca, Spain
Status: offline 		I think the random events can be implemented as failures, using the same system i mean. They will be triggered in the first step of each mission, before countdown.

(in reply to CowboyRonin)
Post #: 8
RE: Backup Astronauts - 1/29/2014 8:49:17 AM   
nats


Posts: 80
Joined: 5/28/2009
From: York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fremen

I think the random events can be implemented as failures, using the same system i mean. They will be triggered in the first step of each mission, before countdown.



I think there are lots of points in the game where events could be triggered not just at a single point, but yes failures could be a type of event. These should preferably be able to happen at any point inside the mission itself as well as during project assembly and testing (presently in the R&D phase). So failures could pretty much happen at any point in the game really as long as missions are being prepared for.

I think adding events would be a lot of work, probably the biggest change that could be made to the game as it present stands, but I think it could also have a massive affect on the gameplay.

< Message edited by nats -- 1/29/2014 9:53:12 AM >

_____________________________

"Its life Jim, but not as we know it"

(in reply to kokubokan25)
Post #: 9
Random Events - 1/31/2014 2:03:54 AM   
stilicho410

 

Posts: 65
Joined: 4/16/2012
Status: offline 		There could be a random events at the start of each season. These could be events such as:

- Research Breakthough (or setbacK) that would affect reliability of a component under research
- Astronaut accident, resulting in injury for some number of seasons or death
- Catastrophic event resulting in multiple deaths, like two astronauts dying during flight accident, or three during a routine test.
- Extra funding

etc, etc.

_____________________________

Thanks,
Stilicho

(in reply to nats)
Post #: 10
RE: Random Events - 1/31/2014 9:39:45 AM   
nats


Posts: 80
Joined: 5/28/2009
From: York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stilicho410

There could be a random events at the start of each season. These could be events such as:

- Research Breakthough (or setbacK) that would affect reliability of a component under research
- Astronaut accident, resulting in injury for some number of seasons or death
- Catastrophic event resulting in multiple deaths, like two astronauts dying during flight accident, or three during a routine test.
- Extra funding

etc, etc.



Yes these are straight forward purely randomised events and the obvious place to put them is in the news section. They can certainly add a certain level of unpredictability and replayability to a game. They need to be balanced by positive events.

The events I much prefer to see in strategy games, though, are those that require a player decision between two alternatives (sometimes both bad). Those are trickier to programme as they tend to happen in the middle of regular gameplay, not just as a notification in the news. These sorts of events increase player immersion and involvement in a game far more than purely random events though as you feel that each new game is a new story of your own making.

A good example of a random event is the infamous 'comet sighted' event in Paradox's EU4 which inflicts a massive stability drop to your empire and seems to happens most often just when you have managed to get stable. These can start to get annoying if they hapopen too often and people start to feel the game is penalising them. Events where you have a decision are easier to accept because at least you are deciding on the result, and it surprising how many times one negative choice will be more appealing than another of seemingly equal effect.

I definitely think it is the latter type of decision events, particulary the chained ones, that make Paradox games more than just a standard strategy game. Crusader Kings 2 is possibly the best strategy game I have ever seen for events that pull you into the game to such a degree that you really feel you are creating your own story as you go along. Remarkable game.

< Message edited by nats -- 1/31/2014 10:52:34 AM >

_____________________________

"Its life Jim, but not as we know it"

(in reply to stilicho410)
Post #: 11
RE: Backup Astronauts - 2/4/2014 12:28:37 AM   
CV60


Posts: 992
Joined: 10/1/2012
Status: offline 		I would go with a random system that operated outside the failure system. For instance, the original crew of Gemini-IX, Elliott M. See and Charles Bassett were killed in an airplane crash four months before the flight, necessitating the use of the back up crew as primary.

http://www-pao.ksc.nasa.gov/history/gemini/gemini-9/gemini9a.htm

quote:

I think the random events can be implemented as failures, using the same system i mean. They will be triggered in the first step of each mission, before countdown.


< Message edited by CV60 -- 2/4/2014 1:29:56 AM >

(in reply to kokubokan25)
Post #: 12
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