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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Pilot bug Page: [1]
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Pilot bug - 2/3/2014 11:13:07 PM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		I've been thinking about a way to deal with this. Starting in mid 1942, so will have time to monitor and adjust if need be. I understand the way the bug arises is players refill their air groups to replace casualties, building the total number of pilots used, until they hit the combined number of pilots provided in the data base.

My solution is first to allocate some share of the 30k between the two sides, so each has something to aim at. I've seen 18:12 proposed and that seems reasonable.

Second, manage the available pilot pool by reducing the number of air groups through the game. Using the Mogami method of air group management, I have been rebuilding front line groups by training, then stripping, "training" groups. I can see this is where it leads to trouble, as the training groups then get refilled from the pool or from untrained pilots. So, I now propose to disband the training air groups on occaision, so they are not available to be refilled. So, for example, if a A6M2 group is down to 15 from 27, I would presently seek to break that down to manageable chunks, of 3-4 pilots, to allocate to other air groups, then, when there is only 4 or 5 left, I would refill the group and start them training somewhere safe. Under the proposed method, I would break them down to the smaller chunks as before, but then disband the core element as well, saying "no" to the reform question.

A problem that might arise is that this approach would reduce the flexibility of the player, particualrly in the late war, by reducing the number of available air units. Not having been there, is this likely to be a significant problem for the Japanese player, given the alternatives are a purge of trained pilots (via the bug) or a larger number of air groups, which are kept understrength to avoid the bug?
Post #: 1
RE: Pilot bug - 2/3/2014 11:45:04 PM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I have never played the Japanese, so this is hearsay (originated from Mogami) but...

Late in the war the swarms of Hellcats/Corsairs/Thunderbolts/Mustangs, flying from a bigger and better logistics base, destroy (or at least almost entirely deplete) entire Japanese airgroups in single combats. Particularly the fighter groups, because bombers might break off early. Fiddling with, breaking up, & distributing training group fragments doesn't really get you anywhere at that stage.

You will then need those full airgroups training in the rear so as to rotate them in for the depleted groups.

Edit: It occurs that the 'no replacements' button could be applied to many such groups left resting, to keep them from drawing pilots, while your next wave of training airgroups get the pilots and the fuel.



< Message edited by Ian R -- 2/4/2014 12:51:07 AM >

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"I am Alfred"

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 2
RE: Pilot bug - 2/4/2014 12:07:07 AM   
ndworl

 

Posts: 145
Joined: 8/20/2013
From: Brisbane, Australia
Status: offline 		Hey, this is good. Because of the time zone, we can prosecute a wholly Australian controversy.

I suppose its the balance I'm thinking about.

Using all available air groups and refilling when required would lead to the bug acting and loss of trained pilots.
Using all air groups but not filling them would possibly avoid the bug but limit the number of available pilots.
Liminting the number of air groups would allow them to be made full strength, but limit the ability to keep some off line for training.

So the question is which of these options is least damaging to the Japanese ability to defend its air space in the later parts of the war?

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 3
RE: Pilot bug - 2/4/2014 1:11:52 AM   
Ian R

 

Posts: 3420
Joined: 8/1/2000
From: Cammeraygal Country
Status: offline 		I'd say option two, after you discontinue (or scale back) the fragment distribution and disbanding method.

If it wasn't for the bug, in the later war you'd just keep groups in the rear training as far as possible, and then relocate them forward for the surge operations like the Marianas and Leyte, and Okinawa, alongside the kamikazes, bearing in mind that low skill groups are just cannon fodder that give the Allies VPs and, ironically, help train the Allied pilots.

With the bug, and on the basis you can't have them all training because of it, you probably need to balance the competing considerations of -

1) keeping as many groups as possible as shells on rest and no replacements (or maybe training with no replacements, depends on supply availability) to try and avoid the bug ('the surplus groups'); and

2) having enough groups filled out and trained to some sort of serviceable skill level, such that you can rotate them to the front, or put on a surge when those fat invasion task forces are parked in an island/coastal hex, hoping that some get through the CAP, and knowing that you'll lose most of them in the process, while turning on some of the rested surplus groups to take their place in the queue.

I think that Mogami's point was that all the detailed work distributing trained fragments is permanently negated the first time the Hellcat swarm contacts each IJ air group, if the F4Us haven't already done the job incrementally.

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"I am Alfred"

(in reply to ndworl)
Post #: 4
RE: Pilot bug - 2/4/2014 10:01:41 PM   
BPRE

 

Posts: 624
Joined: 10/16/2000
From: Stockholm,Sweden
Status: offline 		Hi,

I think you can delay any actions for at least one more year. Mid 1942 is way too early to bother about it. I'm at April 43 in a game as Japan and I have at the moment roughly 5000 aircraft in total. Not all groups might be at peak strength and I've lost a couple of carriers so add another 500 and you should have approximately what I could have had.

I think the majority of the Allied reinforcements are arriving later so even at double strength they won't be at more than 11000 planes. That should leave you 5000-10000 positions free still.

/BPRE

(in reply to Ian R)
Post #: 5
RE: Pilot bug - 2/6/2014 2:12:52 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		There is no way to deal with the pilot bug. Steve and I carefully, or so we thought, managed our pilots. We tried to keep a formation with x # of planes to the same # of pilots. The problem was that pilots are wounded and are later returned to their units. Others bail out and eventually find their way home. No matter what you do the black death will strike. I don't remember exactly when it hit us, but it was later than usual. My AAR makes mention of it when it occurred.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to BPRE)
Post #: 6
RE: Pilot bug - 2/10/2014 7:51:23 PM   
Mobeer


Posts: 662
Joined: 1/17/2007
Status: offline 		Shame the planned post-AE patch never happened; this would have been a great thing to get fixed.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 7
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