AW1Steve
Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoBaron
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ORIGINAL: Symon
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ORIGINAL: AW1Steve
When a society replaces good manners, good citizenship and common sense with law , then that society has worse problems that it seems.
Very perceptive, Steve. I like how you think. Ciao. John
"No offense", but actually I think what Steve said is a banality.
Yes, if any society needs to replace good manners, good citizenship, and common sense with law, then this society has worse problems than it seems. Great finding! Weird that every society has laws against murder, don´t you think?
I hope you don´t mind if I attempt clearify three things:
First, that Austria has a law against Nazi propaganda or symbology has a historical reason. The reason is exactly in line with what Steve said. It exists because, at the end of WWII, Austrian (and German) society emerged from a decade of indoctrination. Many people spent their whole adult life learning that other human beings, Jews, gypsies, handicapped people, are not equal to but worse than the lowest animal. That it did not matter to rob, rape, torture, and kill them. That their dead bodies can be industrialized and parts of their body used as commodity.
The decision that a law needs to be implemented to prevent such an idiology from ever rising again, and that every attempt to reestablish it should be punished by law, was at that time a rational decision. That the law still exists is another matter, but I think US citizens know well how long laws sometimes take to fade away, even if there is no rational cause for them to exist anymore.
Second, the reason why I, and I assume LST as well, reacted in that way, was because the SS was one of the major organziations in the Third Reich actively governing and supporting the mass extinction of the poor "animals" mentioned above. The SS consisted, to a high percentage, of the lowest scum imaginable. It attracted exactly those people which were too weak to stand up against oppression, at the same time only feeling strong in a group, happily accepting the suffering of others for their own safety and happiness, actively humiliating and torturing poor souls who were either 'stupid' enough to think different or had the bad luck of a different skin color, and always being proud of just doing what they were ordered to.
When somebody uses the ID of an SS unit, and its 'Leitmotif', in a way that suggests either pride or admiration, I find this...well...irritating (in an attempt to remain as polite as LST was).
Third, I think the central point of LSTs post has been missed completely because of an unimportant mention of the above cited law, which obviously drew the attention of the Free Speech Avengers. Just a small comment in this regard: I don´t give a ****ing (beeeep) rat´s ass (beeeeep) about a law. I don´t need any ****ing (beeeeeeep) law to tell me what I personally have find revolting and what not. Strange, when I type that beeep sound in parenthesis, I immediately think of a specific country where many of the verocious defenders of free speech originate from, can you guess which one?
And finally: If somebody created an account using a picture of one of the WTC terrorists as avatar and used a sig line like "We die for Allah", he would, absolutely justified, leave this forum with his pants on fire. No free speech crap, thanksgoodbye.
LST mentioned the law because it exists, but thats a sideshow. He posted because he found something revolting. As do I. Thats the central point. Noone cares about that ****ing (beeeeeeeeeep) law.
Hope that clearifies things a bit. 
Banality? How's this then. Any society that is so afraid of itself, and what someone might say in the interest of security is a society that's made to be ruled. It must be, as it demands it. But that's ok. You get the kind of government you want , and deserve. Frankly it's no skin off my butt. I saw the quote as simply a remark of historical significance , but then again I'm not Austrian, German or in any way European. My ancestors surrendered any claim to that nearly 400 years ago. But if it bothers you , here's what an adult does. 1st they contact the individual privately. Investigate the matter , then if he still doesn't resolve the issue to your satisfaction , ask him to remove it, and then ask the moderator to investigate. We are very fortunate to have an extremely diligent and dutiful one. If he doesn't resolve the matter to your satisfaction , then you can "green button" the offender, or make the adult choice not to look at his posts.
And while I very much value your opinion on the game , I'm not going to wait up nights waiting for you to pontificate on social, legal or moral matters. Thanks but you can keep your bleeps. 
< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 2/6/2014 12:08:00 AM >
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