Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions

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Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 1:14:43 PM

towerbooks3192

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Finally feel that I left the early stages of pre-warp and now approaching to mid-game. Here are a few questions

-I was wondering if it is a good idea to automate my constructions ships now?

- How do I improve my income? (I had to use the editor to give me a little money to at least set-up spaceport as my cash flow is in the red (around -40,000). I tried to prioritise building mines on luxuries in the hopes that it would improve my balance.

- When is it best to build resorts and would it help me out of the read?

-Is it better to invade (faster when I have troops ready) or colonise a friendly independent?

- I just had some refugees (Securans) and it is weird that I don't get their bonus but I got a Haakonish bonus instead when I don't have a single colony that has any Haakonish population (I play as ackdarian and got a couple of independent ackdarians and a securan refugee).

- I don't know where I went wrong about my budget but I only have 2 frigates and 5 destroyers that I built (nothing fancy and around 300 ship size used) and about 2 cruisers and a destroyer that I have found and some from the refugees and 2 troop transports (so around 12 ships all in all).

- Does a mining station have to be within my borders in order for me to receive its benefits (got a rephidium source that I have build on and is very close to my border).

Post #: 1

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 1:42:36 PM

Canute0

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quote:

-I was wondering if it is a good idea to automate my constructions ships now?

Depend how much work do you want to have. Personaly i let the most construction ships run on auto. but i keep 1-3 on hotkeys for manual use.

quote:

- How do I improve my income?

Your main income are from population Tax.
You prolly found out that a new colony cost more then you get.
So the best way are colonize an independet colonie if they are friendly, or invade them if they are hostile. When you invade you are geting a small reputation loose but when you kill a pirate base you counter this.
Alternativ invade another empire homeworld.

quote:

- When is it best to build resorts and would it help me out of the read?

At shadows, Resort bases arn't that profitable then they was before but still useful.
I start to build Resort bases when i researched the Long rang scanner, and the passenger transport ofcourse. Then i build them at any available location that is free and not that too far away.

quote:

-Is it better to invade (faster when I have troops ready) or colonise a friendly independent?

Better, not realy but cheaper. A colony ship is very expensive and need long to get build, and the colonisation attempt isn't allways succesful.

quote:

I just had some refugees (Securans) and it is weird that I don't get their bonus

You need at last a min. population of these to get a bonus, not sure how much you need.

quote:

- I don't know where I went wrong about my budget

Check the firepower of the ships you found compared to your own ship. You should dismantle your own ship until you research some more tech and can build better ones.
Or dismantle the found ships for a research bonus. But i would keep them and try to destroy pirate bases with them.

quote:

- Does a mining station have to be within my borders in order for me to receive its benefits

Did you mean the bonus from luxury resources ?
That doesn't matter, but the resources need to delivered to your colonies before they give the bonus.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 2

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 2:23:27 PM

Bingeling

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There are no massive benefits to mines apart from not having shortages. You probably get some trade bonus if foreign powers buy from the mine (or your colonies/spaceports), and the civilian maybe save some money in not having to buy at foreign stations.

The colony bonus is for having that resource in inventory at the colony. The colony wants luxuries (at least 10 I think) to be well developed, and there is in addition the bonus ones for your race.

Why do you have little money? It is hard to tell from here. A screenshot of the empire screen (that shows numbers of everything) could help. Or you could try the thing from the other money issue thread and upload your savegame somewhere.

(in reply to Canute0)

Post #: 3

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 3:44:12 PM

towerbooks3192

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

There are no massive benefits to mines apart from not having shortages. You probably get some trade bonus if foreign powers buy from the mine (or your colonies/spaceports), and the civilian maybe save some money in not having to buy at foreign stations.

The colony bonus is for having that resource in inventory at the colony. The colony wants luxuries (at least 10 I think) to be well developed, and there is in addition the bonus ones for your race.

Why do you have little money? It is hard to tell from here. A screenshot of the empire screen (that shows numbers of everything) could help. Or you could try the thing from the other money issue thread and upload your savegame somewhere.

Tried a few screenshots and I don't know where to find them. I would try to upload them once I get around to it. So what screenies do you need? I don't even know where to find the save files. I am on my PC right now and that file is on my laptop so I will try to upload it later once I figure it out.

Those new ships from the refugees and the ones I found were having some pretty advanced components and I should recheck how much they cost. I reckon it must be my large spaceport (I think I added some more components like some more research labs and 3 plants to one manufacturing something (forgot the component parts).Should I change its components and make it more efficient or something? I might revert it back to original and then just upgrade components to the latest ones available. From the top of my head, I think my frigates cost around 800-900 and my Destroyers cost around 1100 but I am pretty sure it was less than 1500.

As for mining stations, I just updated the components, add Life/Hab and reactor as needed and the very important energy collector then I also added a long range scanner to each of them.

In reply to Canute:

I don't know why the Securan bonus didn't take effect as I recall I had two auto-saves after I settled the Securans and as I have said, I got All ackdarian indies and my ackdarians and the only other bonus I have is the Hakoonish and I don't have a single colony or territory that has some Hakoonish indies nor did I invade any Hakoonish empires.

As for invade or colonize, I know I get reputation hit from any alien empires where I have an indie colony of their race that I have invaded or colonise but do I still get the penalty when I am the only main Ackdarian empire in the game? I know that for example I have controlled a human independent colony therefore I would have relation penalties with human empires because of that.

I think I could scrap a few of my destroyers and see how it goes and it might help with the maintenance since I had to station 2 fleets to different parts of my empire due to the annoying occasional pirate raids.

Question: What is important, access to wide varieties of luxury or access to more of a single or a few luxuries? (e.g having 1 source of danta fur and terralion down vs having multiple sources of terralion downs)

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 4

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 3:53:42 PM

Bingeling

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Since you colonies want 10 different luxuries, I would not prefer multiples of a single source. Having two of each does not hurt, though.

For screenshots I use the snipping tool included in windows. If this is possible to you may depend a bit on how you run the game.

To find save games, enter this link in a "windows explorer" (the address field when you browse any folder):

%AppData%\Code Force Limited\Distant Worlds

There is one folder for each patch.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 5

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 4:56:19 PM

towerbooks3192

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Since you colonies want 10 different luxuries, I would not prefer multiples of a single source. Having two of each does not hurt, though.

For screenshots I use the snipping tool included in windows. If this is possible to you may depend a bit on how you run the game.

To find save games, enter this link in a "windows explorer" (the address field when you browse any folder):

%AppData%\Code Force Limited\Distant Worlds

There is one folder for each patch.

Running on windows 8.1 on my laptop and I have problems locating that folder. Can't shake off that Civ mentality where only 1 source of luxury is effective and additional sources of the same luxury could only be used to be traded.

How do I know what I am earning with free trade agreements and how do I make other empires sign the agreement with me? Is free trade agreement really helpful?

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 6

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 5:23:05 PM

pycco

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Yes having more than one source of a luxury resource is very good. if you can get all the sources of a luxury you can get a monopoly on it and the price will go very high.mining station can eat your income very quickly, in my experience it is best to making mining stations very cheap no defense,i make 4 station types all together with and without lux. a fleet is the best defense it can move and engage enemy's all over the system easily for about the same cost as a system full of mining stations with defenses. as for construction ship automation i would strongly suggest not doing it, the ai likes to build stations at crazy places all over the galaxy which makes your resources take a long time to get to your planets. in the beginning of the game it is very important to drop tax rate at home world to as low as you can if you play with tech trading on trade techs to stay in the green and let your population grow, when the population of the planet is at max population tax them.

save games are in user folder in app data roaming code force limited

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 7

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 5:44:00 PM

Bingeling

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App data is probably a hidden folder by default. Unless they changed things it is at the same level as documents, downloads, and friends.

See for instance: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/2012/03/08/win8-howto-19-show-hidden-files-folders-and-drives.aspx

On how to find the options to make them visible.

The advice in the previous post is way advanced, but there is no need to build a massive amount of mines. 1-2 sources per resource, and more for the strategic ones that are used in the normal ships (military and civilian). And of course, many fuel sources never hurt. With multiple colonies you will have quite a few sources on those as well.

On normal or easier settings it is no problem running constructors on auto, but I would avoid giving the AI too many of them. 3-4 should be enough as long as you don't tax it with repairing your military wrecks. Also, if it starts building mines in remote areas where you can't defend them, consider scrapping them before pirates does that. Notice that the reason why it does this, is that you may lack sources for something useful.

You need to decide whether you want to design everything yourself or not. A trap in "self design" could be too expensive designs, but an experienced designer could of course save some money compared to the default AI designs. One feature of the manual design crowd, is that they make the game sound way harder and more complex than it needs to be.

Tech trading is a good idea, it can give nice cash. I usually don't do that though, mostly due to not wanting more cash

(in reply to pycco)

Post #: 8

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 6:23:08 PM

pycco

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

App data is probably a hidden folder by default. Unless they changed things it is at the same level as documents, downloads, and friends.

See for instance: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/zxue/archive/2012/03/08/win8-howto-19-show-hidden-files-folders-and-drives.aspx

On how to find the options to make them visible.

The advice in the previous post is way advanced, but there is no need to build a massive amount of mines. 1-2 sources per resource, and more for the strategic ones that are used in the normal ships (military and civilian). And of course, many fuel sources never hurt. With multiple colonies you will have quite a few sources on those as well.

On normal or easier settings it is no problem running constructors on auto, but I would avoid giving the AI too many of them. 3-4 should be enough as long as you don't tax it with repairing your military wrecks. Also, if it starts building mines in remote areas where you can't defend them, consider scrapping them before pirates does that. Notice that the reason why it does this, is that you may lack sources for something useful.

You need to decide whether you want to design everything yourself or not. A trap in "self design" could be too expensive designs, but an experienced designer could of course save some money compared to the default AI designs. One feature of the manual design crowd, is that they make the game sound way harder and more complex than it needs to be.

Tech trading is a good idea, it can give nice cash. I usually don't do that though, mostly due to not wanting more cash

ya i don't tech trade either but it help if your are unfamiliar with the game. galaxy size and such depends on how effective auto is in my experience. i always need 5-7 mines of each or i get huge shortages that take years to fill. i also play on the biggest galaxy size with all races. Manually doing things is way more complicated but adds a lot to the game.

what design do you use for mining stations? maybe i am not building them very effectively.

< Message edited by pycco -- 2/16/2014 7:57:25 PM >

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 9

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 7:07:55 PM

Bingeling

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5-7 sources for the core strategics. Steel and friends. Look at the construction summary of some military ships and spaceports to identify them (button in the design below the middle part).

For the others, 1-2 sources should be enough.

Of course, with a giant empire more mines are needed. If something keep killing the mines, a few in reserve would not hurt.

(in reply to pycco)

Post #: 10

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 7:48:00 PM

towerbooks3192

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Will try to restart and keep tech trade ticked next time so that I could have an option to do it just in case. I am currently having a dilemma between making a ship/base efficient but not effective and vice versa. I checked the game and I noticed that troop maintenance is eating around 33k of my budget. I didn't know how much I spent on troops but I remember recruiting a lot on my homeworld but not much on the other colonies that I have. I don't know what is an efficient number of troops that could garrison on colonies that is enough to fend off invaders and raiders.

Couple of more questions:

-Tips on how to effectively invade planets (been having trouble with ground invasion)

and

- Is it alright to leave mines/civilian ships bare bones as in keep the small storage/basic reactor/small fuel cell or at least upgrade to standard storage/basic reactor/standard fuel cell. I reckon one of the other things that is killing me are the mine maintenance as I updated the components and I think I installed some shields and armours on the mines.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 11

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 8:11:39 PM

Bingeling

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Civilian maintenance is paid for by privates. Mines are also privates, while construction ships are state. Mines should not be killing you unless it also kills the civilian economy (do they have money?).

I usually leave troop recruitment on auto, and book some more when I feel it is urgent. If you scroll through my AAR from Shadow launch, you can see my economic overviews at the end of posts. It seems I had approx 100k ship maintenance by the time troop expenses reached 33K.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3327097&mpage=1&key=

When invading you want 2-3 times the defensive strength (or more). The attack strength on troop in a fleet is shown in the selection window. There are bonuses from armored attack, and space control (among others). Click the battle line to get an overview once battle has started. I would come with 2-4 times the amount of troops (don't forget that different races has different troop strength), and on the big invasion maybe drop a pre-party to scout for defense strength before dropping 100 troops to get killed by bad judgement :)

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 12

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/16/2014 8:41:34 PM

pycco

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tanks and special forces help a lot, also try bombing it to soften it up before invading it.Raids 3 units can stop them, for invasions tanks and planet defense are needed to survive without committing huge amounts of infantry. personally i prefer the combat bots,they build so much faster and are cheaper,but are noticeable weaker. for combating pirates hit and run invest in warp stopping tech. if your civilian sector has more free $ it builds more freighters. what you build on what is up to you, if you notice a design not preforming like you think it should change it. keep an eye on the civilian sectors income if they go negative your whole empire will crawler to a stop.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 13

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 2:13:20 AM

towerbooks3192

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I reckon this might paint a clearer picture? Before ending my session yesterday I kind of tried invading another empire's capital but I failed since I don't have even the basic bombardment weapons. I also managed to destroy a large and small spaceport of the pirates on the upper map and manage to snag myself a mortalu and dhayut indie though I don't have enough money to set up some spaceports. that troop maintenance is killing me and to think that I am not at war!. I only have around 2 refugee ships and 2 of my what remained from my initial fleet. I had to borrow 3 cruisers from the editor then just erased them just to defend my base since that pirate band still has a base somewhere. I don't know how I could turn this thing around.

< Message edited by towerbooks3192 -- 2/17/2014 3:20:49 AM >

(in reply to pycco)

Post #: 14

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 8:04:56 AM

Bingeling

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Way many colonies and little income, though I am not that good at empire economy at a glance. By latest economy theory, don't build a lot of spaceports. Where it could be good to use some manual design is to make a small and cheap star base design to build above the colonies. If they are roamed by pirates I guess they are shot down, though. Currently you can not afford even that.

From my Ikurro AAR, at approximately 12000M population I had 4 colonies. 8872M at the capital, having almost all the revenue, giving 72K taxes. Try to pay attention to the capital population, are they being shipped off as migrants? I have seen that happened a long time ago, and it was an economical killer.

If this happens you could probably solve it by raising the taxes on your small colonies to make them less attractive. At this point you want the capital population to rise, since that gives revenue to tax. Once it is full, you want it to remain full, but also to send some away (since it is still increasing). If they migrate out of the empire (look where passenger ships are heading with your migrants), you are in trouble :)

Another thing that probably helps my AAR game compared to yours, is that I played with "expensive research". That makes it take a longer time to get into space, which allows the capital population to increase more before there is much chance for expansion.

You have pitiful revenue. You need to adjust your expenditure to it, and you can afford almost nothing. This must be a lovely example on "how to expand fast and break the economy".

Do something like: 1 troop at each colony. 8 at the capital (you can probably get by with 4). Scrap all small spaceports. Retrofit the home spaceport to medium. Retire/scrap 3 constructors. Retire all troop transports.

If that does not get an effective positive cashflow (with bonus cash), you are in trouble. I would leave the spaceport retrofit for last and hopefully discover that I can do without it.

If pirates rule your skies, you are in trouble. Hope or some friends out there that want to be better friends and send you some gift. If you are wimpy, scout for possible tech trades. But even with this you need to cut expenses dramatically.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 15

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 8:38:33 AM

DeadlyShoe

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your real problem is the appallingly low tax revenue compared to GDP (only 5.6% effective tax rate)

this is either due to incredibly bad happiness or the negative tax effect of too many planets

you need to dump your colonies by any means necessary. I forget if you can abandon colonies, but at the least you need to manually raise taxes on everything but your homeworld and best/most strategic colonies. witha ny luck they will revolt.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 16

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 9:13:22 AM

towerbooks3192

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Will do. Never realised that I am shooting myself in the leg by rapidly expanding. This is a lesson that I learned the hard way but its alright. As to dumping my colonies, I don't know how I should dump them. Now I am learning more about what to do and what not to do and I will make sure I would avoid the same mistake that I did in this current game.

I have a few more questions especially to those who play on the largest map size:

What are the ideal research, pirates, and monster settings? I am leaning towards very expensive, a lot but average distance and normal monster. I just installed the extended mod so this is going to be interesting.Also,I was wondering, what is a good way to know it would not kill me to have more colonies again? I will try very bare bones right now. Is there any disadvantages at keeping the reactor of private ships to basic?

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 17

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 9:34:28 AM

Bingeling

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I think the basic reactor is very inefficient. It may give higher fuel bills, fuel shortages, or something like that. Also, learning the hard way can be fun, but not if you don't discover what is the main problem.

What is the ideal settings? It depends on what you want

.

With slow research (the slower the more visible):
You may get some help in delaying expanding (since you can't), but you may also find that pirate battles are much harder. I see some prefer to pay the pirates off though (but I don't deal with pirates once the home spaceport is up). With a longer pre warp the pirates has more time to milk independents, and empires need more time catch up to them in tech (they research much faster, and start behind).

I would try to either save your game without dumping colonies, or start a new one.

For your own knowledge, I would suggest to monitor your passenger ships a bit. Are they transporting migrants? To where? With civilian vectors on, you should see the travel vector of the selected ship marked, which helps seeing where they are headed.

As for the "pain of over expansion" I have never really noticed the "cost of a colony". They won't help for a while, though, and any effort spent defending it is of course an expenditure.

Very bare bones, 4 troops on capital, no others. That should leave you in the "plus" with my suggested retirements...

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 18

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 1:38:18 PM

towerbooks3192

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

I think the basic reactor is very inefficient. It may give higher fuel bills, fuel shortages, or something like that. Also, learning the hard way can be fun, but not if you don't discover what is the main problem.

What is the ideal settings? It depends on what you want .

With slow research (the slower the more visible):
You may get some help in delaying expanding (since you can't), but you may also find that pirate battles are much harder. I see some prefer to pay the pirates off though (but I don't deal with pirates once the home spaceport is up). With a longer pre warp the pirates has more time to milk independents, and empires need more time catch up to them in tech (they research much faster, and start behind).

I would try to either save your game without dumping colonies, or start a new one.

For your own knowledge, I would suggest to monitor your passenger ships a bit. Are they transporting migrants? To where? With civilian vectors on, you should see the travel vector of the selected ship marked, which helps seeing where they are headed.

As for the "pain of over expansion" I have never really noticed the "cost of a colony". They won't help for a while, though, and any effort spent defending it is of course an expenditure.

Very bare bones, 4 troops on capital, no others. That should leave you in the "plus" with my suggested retirements...

Cheers!

I will put all your teachings to heart and strive to improve on my next game. I installed extended and now started and I had a hard time with pirates but they stopped bothering me after I paid them off and after I built to defense platforms armed with torpedoes. I set the research to very slow and used my spies to get to work by stealing most techs. I got Armour, shield and reactors through espionage and I only need to wait for the standard fuel cells to make a decent ship at least to defend myself from the space monster event.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 19

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 1:47:21 PM

Bingeling

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Space monsters can be kited. Send you small fleet to attack it. Observe what ship is the target of the monster, have it run away (that is, move away from the monster). Watch for the monster changing target...

4-5 crap escorts can kill a normal space monster this way. The early ones often attack something at your capital, you just need to aim to place the fleet so that they get their shots off...

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 20

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 2:53:40 PM

pycco

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quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192

I reckon this might paint a clearer picture? Before ending my session yesterday I kind of tried invading another empire's capital but I failed since I don't have even the basic bombardment weapons. I also managed to destroy a large and small spaceport of the pirates on the upper map and manage to snag myself a mortalu and dhayut indie though I don't have enough money to set up some spaceports. that troop maintenance is killing me and to think that I am not at war!. I only have around 2 refugee ships and 2 of my what remained from my initial fleet. I had to borrow 3 cruisers from the editor then just erased them just to defend my base since that pirate band still has a base somewhere. I don't know how I could turn this thing around.

ok if you are playing in prewarp drop your taxes as low as you can go this increases population growth. only build 1-3 mines 1 scout 1 construction ship en tell you get hyper drives, doing this will allow you to increase population growth very quickly and become an empire with a budget. taxing planet before it reaches max pop does 2 things, slow the population growth, encourages the population to resettle to different planet with lower taxes. taxing a planet before it has revenue which you can see in the colony screen is a bad idea you will never get postie money from it. DON'T BUILD SPACE PORTS EVERYWHERE i use 1 space port en tell i have 10 + systems just put extra cargo on in. this help keeps my resources from getting spread out. you have too many troops and ship and bases, 3 troops per planet will defend against raids effectively. build 10 research labs of each kind on your home worlds space port, this will speed up your research and make them easy to defend. Use defensive bases or star-bases instead of space ports at other planets i would put only bare min on them en tell the planet is + cash flow. make sure you put recreation,medical and the commerce center. When you take a colony that you can not defend you are giving the pirates money and resources, what i do is pay them en tell i have wrap stopper. to combat pirates get warp stopping tech. missiles and torpedoes on stand-off work great for destroying pirate bases.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 21

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 3:12:27 PM

towerbooks3192

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pycco

quote:

ORIGINAL: towerbooks3192

I reckon this might paint a clearer picture? Before ending my session yesterday I kind of tried invading another empire's capital but I failed since I don't have even the basic bombardment weapons. I also managed to destroy a large and small spaceport of the pirates on the upper map and manage to snag myself a mortalu and dhayut indie though I don't have enough money to set up some spaceports. that troop maintenance is killing me and to think that I am not at war!. I only have around 2 refugee ships and 2 of my what remained from my initial fleet. I had to borrow 3 cruisers from the editor then just erased them just to defend my base since that pirate band still has a base somewhere. I don't know how I could turn this thing around.

ok if you are playing in prewarp drop your taxes as low as you can go this increases population growth. only build 1-3 mines 1 scout 1 construction ship en tell you get hyper drives, doing this will allow you to increase population growth very quickly and become an empire with a budget. taxing planet before it reaches max pop does 2 things, slow the population growth, encourages the population to resettle to different planet with lower taxes. taxing a planet before it has revenue which you can see in the colony screen is a bad idea you will never get postie money from it. DON'T BUILD SPACE PORTS EVERYWHERE i use 1 space port en tell i have 10 + systems just put extra cargo on in. this help keeps my resources from getting spread out. you have too many troops and ship and bases, 3 troops per planet will defend against raids effectively. build 10 research labs of each kind on your home worlds space port, this will speed up your research and make them easy to defend. Use defensive bases or star-bases instead of space ports at other planets i would put only bare min on them en tell the planet is + cash flow. make sure you put recreation,medical and the commerce center. When you take a colony that you can not defend you are giving the pirates money and resources, what i do is pay them en tell i have wrap stopper. to combat pirates get warp stopping tech. missiles and torpedoes on stand-off work great for destroying pirate bases.

I will try to restart in the morning and try to follow your starting advice. I thought that I absolutely have to build spaceports once I colonize something. It is my first time building a defense platform in a game I just started. I might play as the Ketarovs again and start on very expensive research to make espionage worth it.

Any advice on:

- When to start building a military ship (I usually do it when I have atleast Gerax/armour/shield/standard fuel/fission reactor and 300 ship size (stand off torpedo frigates)

- Which mines to priotise building? (Is prioritising Caslon early on then a bit of steel alright or I should be getting luxuries first?). I still haven't figured out how to really make mine building worth it and not just click each and every resource I would find and build a mine on it. I know I have to do it sooner or later but I just don't know which ones to prioritise and which ones I need.

-How do I efficiently use the information contained within the expansion planner?

- There are many resources to keep track of, how do I start keeping track of it and kind of identifying which ones I really need right now and which to prioritise?? (I started to learn resource importance since shadows and learning a bit more about checking components while doing ship designs.)

(in reply to pycco)

Post #: 22

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 3:46:29 PM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

Build military when you feel like fighting. Do you want to protect your early mines? Or just research and wait? It is a slow game if doing nothing.

Caslon is a good first. I would built at anything close to the capital if I can't warp around... Look at the main designs. Spaceport, military, civilians. Press the construction summary button below the center part. This shows the resources used for it. That should tell you what is in demand beyond "a little".

Strategics first, but without warp you don't have a lot of choice.

I mostly use the expansion planner to count my number of sources (top table). It also tell about your stores, if you notice something not rising like the rest, you should get some more sources. You can use the lower part to book mines, filtered by resource. Or to colonize, or to see where your mines are.

I seem to have noticed that while pirate battles rage, a mine in the system of a new colony is not likely to survive. Stopping the raiders early on is hard. So I would try build mines outside colony systems, but close, at the start. And defend the capital system properly.

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 23

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 5:07:43 PM

pycco

Posts: 345
Joined: 5/28/2013
From: United States of America
Status: offline

quote:
Any advice on:

- When to start building a military ship (I usually do it when I have atleast Gerax/armour/shield/standard fuel/fission reactor and 300 ship size (stand off torpedo frigates)

- Which mines to priotise building? (Is prioritising Caslon early on then a bit of steel alright or I should be getting luxuries first?). I still haven't figured out how to really make mine building worth it and not just click each and every resource I would find and build a mine on it. I know I have to do it sooner or later but I just don't know which ones to prioritise and which ones I need.

-How do I efficiently use the information contained within the expansion planner?

- There are many resources to keep track of, how do I start keeping track of it and kind of identifying which ones I really need right now and which to prioritise?? (I started to learn resource importance since shadows and learning a bit more about checking components while doing ship designs.)

[/quote]

nothing wrong with not staring it prewarp.
is tech trading on? This has huge implications on the game,much harder with no tech trading. the ai can also not trade techs.
turn pirates and space monster to your liking.
change the setting to your liking, one of many things that make this a great game.
your not going to win your first few games. if you feel you understand something better or whatever start over, if you want to.
at start of game
check your leader if it sucks fire it.
again and again if you have to
pirates are going to show up and ask for $$$ pay it.

your starting space port should be small, so its up quick just basics, no weapons or defense. just quick and dirty, i retrofit after it's built to have more science, stoarge, docks. build 1 construction ship 1 explorer. tell explorer to explorer the planets with a icon above them. remember to drop tax rate. you will need energy collectors, recreation and medical center these techs give huge bonus to your empire.

assign merc resources missions for all resources.needed resources for most things steel gold lead aculon, iridum, chromium. caslon for reactor. look for planets with high % and multiple types. your prewarp construction ship is SLOOOOW, it will only get 1-3 mines built before warp. watch out for space monster.

If the pirates have a base close to you see how strong the faction is, by clicking on diplomacy click on the pirate faction in question check military ships, how much fire power do they have? above 1k will kill you at this stage. what type are they, raiding, smuggling, merc? raiding ones take huge amounts of your income avoid dealing with them if you can.

the expansion planner is full of a lot of information. as bingeling said, the EP(explanation planner) shows what is in transit and stores. i use it to see what resources i don't have and and how many sources i have. sorting the EP by unfilled is a good way to see what your empire is using a lot of, and needs more of. remember i takes time to saturate the economy with a resources.(building the mine the freighters getting to and form) i like the galaxy view better, to show where the resources are.

as for military its a judgment call. building the ships + the upkeep + the resources is a HUGE investment in both time and money. would it be cheaper to pay off attacker? this is not a feasible long term strategy though. to have a persistent military you need a + economy. patience is often the best course of action in this game, just slowly expand and secure your territory, grow the population. growing the population takes years in game at 0 taxes, governors and leader bonuses help a lot. military ships are useless if they cant catch there targets. focus on speed and warp stopping for defense fleets. for attacking go slower with more fore power.

invading is a pain in the a**. Bombing a population has diplomatic effects. for invading a home world you will need 20 ish infantry,5 tanks, 3 special forces. you may need less or way more check the strength of the planet your attacking. you should never try to invade a planet without space control. if you have spacial control there is no reason to invade until your ready, as you can blockade the planet.

resorts are good once you get your empire going not before as their income can be finicky. Go big with them build as many passenger spots as you can. they will need defenses though, depending on what your fighting.

< Message edited by pycco -- 2/17/2014 6:09:43 PM >

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 24

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 7:45:09 PM

Ardilus

Posts: 53
Joined: 12/30/2012
Status: offline

quote:

I seem to have noticed that while pirate battles rage, a mine in the system of a new colony is not likely to survive. Stopping the raiders early on is hard. So I would try build mines outside colony systems, but close, at the start. And defend the capital system properly.

Pirates! Among my own tactics is to group mining stations as often as possible within a single system, even if there is more abundant sources for some particular resource at other locations. This makes it much easier to defend with a single patrol, and also encourages pirate ships to remain in the system long enough to allow me to take out a few ships. Hyper-deny is indispensable for managing the buggers.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 25

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 8:07:42 PM

Bingeling

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline

Admittedly, I have not played a proper game since the AAR I did at Shadows launch...

What I noticed for sure was that pirates swarmed my minor colonies and did the odd visit to the capital system. Stopping them from raiding colonies (in space) was beyond hard.

Mines in other systems, however, were ignored. I think the AI plays a fair game. If it has explored a system it won't return at random, and won't discover the game. Also, with weak colonies the pirates seemed more eager to raid those. An attack on a mine in a non colony system happened years after the main pirate battle, when some respawned weaklings tried to get a snack.

The mine in a colony system? What do you think they will do after dropping their pods?

With more 0 tax and tech trading abuse, it could be more possible to keep the pirates at bay.

(in reply to Ardilus)

Post #: 26

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/17/2014 10:08:32 PM

Ardilus

Posts: 53
Joined: 12/30/2012
Status: offline

They do tend to pick on select, frontier colonies more than others. In my games, pirates tend become even more of a nuisance after those in my immediate, early-game proximity have been destroyed or suppressed. Often it's a combination of their isolation allowing them to build-up resources and forces, or a generally passive response from rivals in those sectors. I imagine different pirate roles will use different raiding strategies, some more likely to target mining systems, and this can be a problem when you need to protect against a half-a-dozen different factions simultaneously. Sometimes pirates will, either by AI template or emergent behavior, use diversion or multiple-front tactics. They might target nearby mining systems and lure my defensive forces away, while another force moves into the colonized system. This is not uncommon if the faction has been able to produce lots of ships.

(in reply to Bingeling)

Post #: 27

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/18/2014 1:20:53 PM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline

Thanks for the tips everyone. I will apply this to a new game that I will be starting (sandbox as humans on largest map and making sure it is going to be a game I will play from start to finish). I may or may not do an AAR since I am inexperienced in writing one and I have trouble knowing when to take screenies of the game while thinking of some fancy way to narrate it. I might push through with it in order for people to critique the way I am playing the game and see whether I did something wrong or not.

(in reply to Ardilus)

Post #: 28

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/18/2014 9:17:24 PM

Canute0

Posts: 616
Joined: 4/30/2010
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

sandbox as humans on largest map and making sure it is going to be a game I will play from start to finish

You should maybe continue with a smaller map. A Large map is very boring and very micromangment intensive at the end.
Not to speak from the duration of a saving game.

Set the victory condotions to 50% maybe, and just play to the victory.
Or maybe just enable the Race victory conditions and try to win with them.
And disable the storylines ! :-)

(in reply to towerbooks3192)

Post #: 29

RE: Approaching the mid-game. Couple of questions - 2/19/2014 11:39:07 AM

towerbooks3192

Posts: 337
Joined: 8/12/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canute

quote:

sandbox as humans on largest map and making sure it is going to be a game I will play from start to finish

You should maybe continue with a smaller map. A Large map is very boring and very micromangment intensive at the end.
Not to speak from the duration of a saving game.

Set the victory condotions to 50% maybe, and just play to the victory.
Or maybe just enable the Race victory conditions and try to win with them.
And disable the storylines ! :-)