RE: Thank you & God bless

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RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/17/2014 7:08:23 PM

Cap Mandrake

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Interesting. The first raid over the Kuriles was conducted by B-25's from Alexei Field on Attu, early July 1943. I don't think you can reach Paramushro wtih B-25's in AE

quote:

The mission of Eleventh Air Force was to take advantage of the new airfields on Shemya and Attu, and carry out offensive operations against the enemy forces in the Kuriles. Orders were issued in early July 1943 for the first bombing attack on the Japanese Home Islands since the April 1942 Doolittle Raid. Crews and aircraft were to be provided by the 21st, 36th and 77th bomb Squadrons. Initially Eleventh Air Force had little intelligence available about the Kurile Islands. IX Bomber Command coordinated with Navy personnel who were able to provide various documents, maps and other documents about the Islands. This included captured Japanese documents from Attu. From this information the command put together an accurate assessment of the Japanese military installations on the island chain.[1]

On 10 July 1943, eight B-25 Mitchells from the 77th Bombardment Squadron left Adak AAF and refueled at Alexai Point AAF on Attu. High-explosive bombs were also loaded on the aircraft. Six B-24 Liberator bombers from the 21st Bombardment Squadron on Shemya were scheduled to join them, however they were diverted to attack Japanese transport ships spotted by a Navy PBY aircrew. The B-25s reached Paramushiro, which they found completely socked in by clouds. Using time/distance calculations they dropped their 500-pound bombs though the clouds on what they believed were the Japanese installations, then headed back to Alexi Point and landed after nine and a half-hour, 1,000-mile flight. At the time, it was the longest B-25 Mitchell mission of the war. Meanwhile, the B-24 Liberators had attacked the transports but failed to achieve any hits. One Liberator was hit by anti-aircraft fire from the ships and managed to make a wheels-up landing on Shemya.[1]

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14701

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/17/2014 8:01:57 PM

Chickenboy

Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I don't how many people actually read this stuff, I think it's just 7 or 8 people checking here for something exciting/interesting/funny to see mostly and disappointed at that. But anyway if you're a serious naval buff you might be interested in this https://support.nmrn.org.uk/the-anglo-german-naval-arms-race-and-the-first-world-war-at-sea

Norman Friedman and NAM Rodger are the keynote speakers. All this plus dinner on the Victory for �100? F@$� yes! Sign up. Now. You can sleep at my place for the 3 days. Really.

You know-you chaps sell yourselves short. I'd say there are at least 10 people checking here for something exciting/interesting/funny to see mostly and disappointed at that.

The conference sounds interesting, mate-I enjoyed "Castles of Steel", but there's something about the commute for the conference that is off putting.

_____________________________

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Post #: 14702

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/17/2014 8:43:30 PM

sanch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Shemya Airfield, June 1943 with Marsden matting.

I'd say there's a good chance for a loop-de-doop shortly after that guy touches down ...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14703

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/17/2014 9:04:01 PM

sprior

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Why is he landing on Skegness beach?

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_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to sanch)

Post #: 14704

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 12:20:51 AM

zuluhour

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You know if you guys get bored you could figure out the square miles of a WITP-AE hexagon for me.� Something about dividing it into triangles etc.. Ive tried to get it done at work but the ^%$# phone rings everytime I sit down to it. It's been about 4 or five decades since Ive seen my geometry text book anyway. Hey I'm just ask'in.

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< Message edited by zuluhour -- 2/18/2014 1:22:18 AM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14705

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 1:31:01 AM

Cap Mandrake

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You know the Apothem (because it's 1/2 the "width" of the hexagon and that's in the manual.

You can divide the hexagon into 12 30-60-90 triangles as shown. The Apothem is the height of the triangle.

The ratios between the sides of a 30-60-90 triangle are always 1, 2, sqrt(3). A=sqrt(3) * B

The area of the triangle is 1/2 * base * height ..or ...1/2 * A/sqrt(3) * A....or.....A^^2/sqrt(3) * 2

But there are 12 triangles so the area of the hexagon is 6 * A^^2/sqrt(3)

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 14706

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 1:31:24 AM

erstad

Posts: 1944
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From: Midwest USA
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Never mind

< Message edited by erstad -- 2/18/2014 2:33:18 AM >

(in reply to zuluhour)

Post #: 14707

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 1:34:03 AM

Cap Mandrake

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Somebody check that.

I just got a recruitment letter from the Air Farce. No kidding. Apparently, their system isn't very sophisticated.

I wrote back and told them ............."I am already a Fleet Admiral and could you beat that?"

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14708

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 1:45:07 AM

Disco Duck

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

What could possibly go wrong?

You don't have enough insurance, even at the Bill Clinton level?

I would be having an inspector checking out the rest of the house!

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14709

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 2:29:29 AM

sprior

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

You know the Apothem (because it's 1/2 the "width" of the hexagon and that's in the manual.

You can divide the hexagon into 12 30-60-90 triangles as shown. The Apothem is the height of the triangle.

The ratios between the sides of a 30-60-90 triangle are always 1, 2, sqrt(3). A=sqrt(3) * B

The area of the triangle is 1/2 * base * height ..or ...1/2 * A/sqrt(3) * A....or.....A^^2/sqrt(3) * 2

But there are 12 triangles so the area of the hexagon is 6 * A^^2/sqrt(3)

I googled the same answer is you! In this case the apotherm is 20.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14710

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 3:00:58 AM

CT Grognard

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Hang on...so are you telling me that, since we know the distance across a hex is 40 nautical miles, this means the perimeter of a hex in AE is 138.56 nautical miles and the area of a hexagon is 1,385.64 square nautical miles?

(in reply to sprior)

Post #: 14711

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 3:42:53 AM

poodlebrain

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From: Comfy Chair in Baton Rouge
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

What could possibly go wrong?

A down-on-his-luck, itinerant choreographer seeking employ could suffer a nasty tumble while attempting to demonstrate his skills to your tradesmen. I refuse to speculate as to why your tradesmen would need a choreographer, but you do live in a place where an unusually high portion of people have dreams of careers in show business as other than stagehands.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

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Post #: 14712

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 4:48:27 PM

Argos

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With regard to the B-24s on Shemya - As my Flight Instructor is all to happy to point out, you can land a plane on anything, the trick is in being able to walk/fly away afterwards. (Snarky is apparently now an accepted FAA instructional style...)

< Message edited by Argos -- 2/18/2014 5:49:39 PM >

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14713

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 4:50:41 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Whereas the Churchill's gun I still proudly, er, not drooping.

Seems like a bit...smaller caliber?

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Post #: 14714

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 5:11:08 PM

zuluhour

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Is this so?

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Post #: 14715

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 7:35:11 PM

Cap Mandrake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Is this so?

Not in terms of bore. It's an Ordnance QF 75 on the Churchill and a 75 mm M3 L/40 gun on the Sherman.

I think the M3 L/40 has a wider barrel at the base...so...if you buying a "gun cover" you might chose the extra large. It's a good idea to save the receipt and leave it in your car too.

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Post #: 14716

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 7:41:41 PM

Cap Mandrake

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After seeing the water damage to my balconies, I am reminded of my moderately annoying neighbor, the former husband of Old Widda' Smith.

He used to brag that he repainted the balcony surfaces every year. I thought he was just one of those idiots who change their oil every 1500 miles but I now realize he may have been on to something. My guess is the proper interval is somewhere between 1 year and 20 years, but definitely less than 20.

I did take some comfort in knowing he killed himself. Seems to me he jumped the gun a little on that.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/18/2014 8:43:56 PM >

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Post #: 14717

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 9:12:34 PM

zuluhour

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Damn It Capt'n, not the gun, the area of a hexagon.

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Post #: 14718

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/18/2014 10:16:33 PM

Cap Mandrake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

Damn It Capt'n, not the gun, the area of a hexagon.

Oh.

I think it's right.

I make the perimeter about 138.6 nm

and the area about 1385.7 nm

That seems about right..it has to be less than a 40 x 40 square (1600 nm)?? Also, each side is a bit longer than the apothem so it has to be a bit over 120??

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Post #: 14719

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 5:20:06 AM

CaptDave

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You really could simplify things by remembering that the area of a triangle is 1/2(bh). Then you could simplify the calculation even more by recognizing that you have six equilateral triangles, and in an equilateral triangle b=h. So, for each equilateral triangle a=200 (10*20). Six of those gives you an area of 1200 nm� for the hexagon.

This assumes, of course, that when a hex is described as "40 nm across" it means side to side and not corner to corner. Rates of ground movement point toward this being an accurate assumption (boy, isn't that a scary concept!).

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Post #: 14720

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 4:37:09 PM

Cap Mandrake

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hmmm?

Seems to me an assumption is wrong there. If the apothem is 20 that doesn't mean the side is also 20.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 2/19/2014 5:45:37 PM >

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Post #: 14721

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 7:18:48 PM

poodlebrain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

hmmm?

Seems to me an assumption is wrong there. If the apothem is 20 that doesn't mean the side is also 20.

I don't trust any of these solutions since they do not involve trigonometric functions and integral calculus. Geometry and Pythagoras are for amateurs.

_____________________________

Never trust a man who's ass is wider than his shoulders.

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Post #: 14722

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 7:33:52 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

hmmm?

Seems to me an assumption is wrong there. If the apothem is 20 that doesn't mean the side is also 20.

I don't trust any of these solutions since they do not involve trigonometric functions and integral calculus. Geometry and Pythagoras are for amateurs.

I suppose instead of using the "e" key on you calculator, you derive it from scratch every time?

PS: What is "e" in binary? If you have that memorized, you might be a redneck!!

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Post #: 14723

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 7:58:37 PM

CaptDave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

hmmm?

Seems to me an assumption is wrong there. If the apothem is 20 that doesn't mean the side is also 20.

You're right -- I shouldn't do geometry at midnight with a fever. I had in my mind your basic 1:2:sqrt(3) sequence, but forgot it's the hypotenuse that has length 2. The base of the equilateral triangle, as I think you calculated earlier, would be 2h/sqrt(3) [A/sqrt(3) for your half-size, 30-60-90 triangles; your A becomes my h].

This results in the larger triangle's area being h^2/sqrt(3), and we've defined h=20nm, so the area of the hexagon is six times that, 2400nm^2/sqrt(3), or 1386nm^2 (to the correct number of significant digits). This verifies the calculations already done.

I like these questions. They help me keep old skills alive! (Too bad they don't do much for my war leadership abilities!)

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14724

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 8:01:29 PM

sprior

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From: Portsmouth, UK
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Minions!

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_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to CaptDave)

Post #: 14725

RE: "Fukoku Maru, pal!" - 2/19/2014 8:03:08 PM

Wirraway_Ace

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck

Sounds like my Sister trying to sign up for Obama-care. She didn't understand a paragraph so she called up the help line. They read the paragraph back to her. She told them she could read what it says, she just didn't understand what it meant. So they read it back to her again.

She still believes Obama will straighten everything out if the GOP will just get out of the way.

What does this have to do with the battle for Okinawa? I bemoan the state of understanding of the theory of insurance.

(in reply to Disco Duck)

Post #: 14726

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 8:06:07 PM

Cap Mandrake

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quote:

ORIGINAL: poodlebrain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

hmmm?

Seems to me an assumption is wrong there. If the apothem is 20 that doesn't mean the side is also 20.

I don't trust any of these solutions since they do not involve trigonometric functions and integral calculus. Geometry and Pythagoras are for amateurs.

Pythagoras was probably beat up as a kid but he is still better than that Muslim guy that invented algebra.

The length of a side of the hexagon is 2(Tan(30)*Apothem)...so the area is 6*Apothem^^2*Tan(30)

Not sure how you would use calculus but probably some math geek could derive the formula for the area of a circle from the formula for the area of a regular polygon as then number of sides approaches infinty.

While we're at it maybe somebody could figure out why B-25's cant hit Paramashuro Jima from Attu in AE. I think it has soemthign to do with squishing the globe onto a flat map.

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Post #: 14727

RE: "Fukoku Maru, pal!" - 2/19/2014 8:06:12 PM

sprior

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From: Portsmouth, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
What does this have to do with the battle for Okinawa? I bemoan the state of understanding of the theory of insurance.

I suspect it's something with Japan refusing to take up the League of Nations invasion insurance. If they don't sign up by August 1945 we're sending the final reminders.

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)

Post #: 14728

RE: Thank you & God bless - 2/19/2014 8:18:56 PM

Cap Mandrake

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From: Southern California
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****************Japan-mens HQ, Miri**************

Col. Saito: What mean surrender?! We winning.

Young man in fine linen slacks: Don't say "surrender", Colonel. It's so hierarchical. Call it a change of status.

Col. Saito: Change of status? You crazy son of bitch. "Change of status" same thing. What about Japn-mens honor?

Young man in fine linen slacks: Oh, I thought of that. You will officialy die honorably in battle. Your families get a nice severance check and you all get new identities.

Col. Saito: New identities? Where Japan-mens go?

Young man in fine linen slacks: To the lovely South Pacific island of Tanna.

Col. Saito: Hmmmm. Tanna?...........Are Tanna-womans attractive?

Young man in fine linen slacks: Breathtaking!

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)

Post #: 14729

RE: "Fukoku Maru, pal!" - 2/19/2014 9:27:48 PM

Wirraway_Ace

Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wirraway_Ace
What does this have to do with the battle for Okinawa? I bemoan the state of understanding of the theory of insurance.

I suspect it's something with Japan refusing to take up the League of Nations invasion insurance. If they don't sign up by August 1945 we're sending the final reminders.

My understanding of the theory of insurance suggests it will be unaffordable by then. Or for that matter, it appears likely to be unaffordable for them by the end of 43.

(in reply to sprior)

Post #: 14730