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GD 1938 v210 - 2/23/2014 3:19:45 PM

RufusTFirefly

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From: Germany
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Players

Axis (Germany/Italy) - Rufus T Firefly
Japan - Ironduke
USSR - Hatem
UK/France - Rander
USA - Antonio
China - Bombur

The game has some new political cards that enable nations to try a coup and take control over a minor even if influence level is still low or to try to reduce political influence level of a minors most favoured major.

Starting the AAR at turn 4:

Axis has declared war on France and Belgium. As Britain is allied with France, Axis is at war with Britain too. France has a difficult start. HQs are low in staff, most of them have around 30% staff level. The main supply center at Lille is close to the border of Belgium and in reach of Greman fighters. So Luftwaffe can perform strategic bombardment covered by fighters. Lille is down to zero quickly. Bombardments on Lyon followed.

Another DoW had been sent to Belgium. It is attacked mainly by artillery. So far no infantry has crossed borders to France or Belgium.

Next step was a DoW on Denmark. Political situation had not been checked. So it was surprize to Axis that USA had most influenece and was coming in as protector of Denmark. So USA is at war at a very early state of the game. However, they could not save Denmark. There was few infantry and a coastal battery. Kriegsmarine at Baltic Sea and bombers from eastern Germany started the attack. Denmark tried to evacuate infantry by transport vessels. They were sunk by German subs. Remaining HQ and coastal battery was overrun.

In Africa the Italiens advanced towards Tunesia and Egypt. France and Britain answered by sending light bombers. Not yet any battles on ground.

In the East SU attacked the Baltic states.

< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 2/25/2014 6:44:58 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/23/2014 7:20:53 PM

Josh

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/subsribed.
Let the carnage begin.

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)

Post #: 2

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/23/2014 11:29:57 PM

Jeffrey H.

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From: San Diego, Ca.
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This'll be interesting.

_____________________________

History began July 4th, 1776. Anything before that was a mistake.

Ron Swanson

(in reply to Josh)

Post #: 3

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 6:22:51 PM

RufusTFirefly

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From: Germany
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For those who have not yet had a closer look at the scenario here some additional remarks on turn 1 to 4:

Germany starts with air superiority. Fighters already at level III, and a large amount of squads enable Germany to do strategic bombing of French cities or supply center without any losses. France starts with fighter I, but upgrade to fighter II possible in first turn. However, fighters II still of lower level than German fighters III and heavy losses of fighters I in first turn weaken French air force severely. So it was possible to damage the French supply center at Lille and to continue bombardments of French cities when Lille was down.

South of the alps things look different. Italien air force has fighter I, and can upgrade to improved fighter I in first turn. As Italien fighters are too weak to provide air cover of bombers, I decided to send Italien bombers south. They attacked Tripolis to weaken the French forces in N-Africa. France has a lot of units in N-Africa. But they need lots of supply. Bombing the cities should reduce the ability of France to supply their forces and build reinforcements. Italien subs intercept supply shippings. But they have to be aware of French and British navy.

Or if you prefer to read this in a different way:

Summary of report of Reichsluftfahrtministerium about the first weeks of campaign against France:
� � It had been possible to replace all Heinkel HE-51 and Arado AR-68 in time by modern Messerschmitt Bf 109c. The M. Bf 109c proofed to be a better fighter than the French Morane Saulnier MS 225. First weeks of the campaign against France has shown that nearly all air battles had been won by our fighters and caused heavy losses for French air force. This garantees air superiority of our fighters in French skies. French air force is hardly able to provide any more air cover for cities as well as for ground forces.
�
Our axis partner Italy cannt provide any support for us in the air. Their fighters Fiat CR.32 are too old. First improved fighters Fiat CR.42 are build, but still low in number. It is only the high quality of the Italien pilots that might enable their air force to stay at equal level as the French.
�
The great success of the M. Bf109c should not be a reason to lean back. Further development of the Messerschnitts are highly recommended. Intel reports that Britain has already replaced some of their fighters Hawker Fury Mk II by new developped fighters called Hurricane. Experts think the Hurricane is a fighter as good as our Messerschmitt. Supermarine Aviation Works is already testing another fighter, called Spitfire. This seems to be an even better fighter than the Hurricane. Further intel reports say France is testing an improved version of the MS 225, called MS 406. Beside Morane Saulnier the company Dewoitine is working on a fighter.
...�

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)

Post #: 4

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 6:34:28 PM

ernieschwitz

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A small correction, Bf-109Cs are actually fighter II, but Germany has the ability from the start of the game to build fighter IIIs, Bf-109Ds. Oh, and I assume that RufusTFirefly means attacking Tunis, and not Tripoli, which is an Italian city (in libya) :)

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)

Post #: 5

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 7:29:21 PM

RufusTFirefly

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From: Germany
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Tunis, Tripolis ... doesnt matter. Will bomb them anyway. Playing the evil Axis!

(Oh, Tripolis belongs to Italy. Take it easy guys, it is friendly fire.)

< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 2/24/2014 10:04:23 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 8:02:14 PM

Twotribes

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How come no one waits to start the war? Seems like one would want max production before starting conflict?

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Post #: 7

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 9:01:50 PM

RufusTFirefly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

How come no one waits to start the war? Seems like one would want max production before starting conflict?

Depends on nation.

Germany should attack as soon as possible. It is strong at the beginning. Waiting some turns would enable the enemies to get stronger. France has problems due to very few staff at HQs. And, as written above, it is preferable to reduce French production capacity before France can build up a good air defence. In another game Ironduke has attacked Balkan minors quickly to get a path to SU. So he could attack SU early. At turn 17 he has already taken Moscow and is standing near Baku (so all mid and southern SU has fallen).

Italy might wait, as it is weak. But it should support Germany, so it has to fight.

For France and Britain it is preferable to see a late start of war. Britain and France need to build stronger air force and need to ship units. And they cannt declare war on minors. So they need time to increase political influence.

Japan is at war with China right from the start. So SU might take profit of it and attack China too. SU attacking minors will be quicker than waiting for enough diplomatic influenece. And units gain experience.

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Post #: 8

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 9:09:08 PM

Twotribes

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Which is ahistorical, Germany was in no position to start the war in 38.

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Post #: 9

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/24/2014 9:12:57 PM

ironduke1955

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Small correction Ironduke is playing Japan Antonio is playing USA

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Post #: 10

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 2/25/2014 5:45:09 PM

RufusTFirefly

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

Small correction Ironduke is playing Japan Antonio is playing USA

Yes, sorry. Mistake while doing copy-paste. Corrected.

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RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/3/2014 5:00:09 PM

RufusTFirefly

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Turn 5

Westfront started to move. Brussels and Luxemburgh have been taken. Fortifications at Maginot Line still holding. But some suffered heavy damage due to German artillery and bombers already. French forces answered with artillery bombardment of Stuttgart.

In the Atlantic wolfpacks are on the hunt.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 3/3/2014 6:03:37 PM >

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Post #: 12

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/3/2014 5:13:59 PM

ironduke1955

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Impressive advances in 1938 the might of the French army has not yet been encountered

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Post #: 13

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/3/2014 9:40:19 PM

ironduke1955

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quote:

Which is ahistorical, Germany was in no position to start the war in 38.

Not sure if that is totally true all through the thirties the Germans had been secretly training massive reserves. France and the UK were still on a peace time footing the Soviet Union had obsolete weapon systems. The T34 being a good example this tank was available in 1941 when the Germans attacked but not in 1938.
So certainly Germany was weaker in 1938 than 1939 but so were her opponents.

(in reply to ironduke1955)

Post #: 14

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/4/2014 4:38:49 PM

RufusTFirefly

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From: Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Which is ahistorical, Germany was in no position to start the war in 38.

These critics miss the point, I think.

This scenario, as I understand it, is not meant mainly to reflect historical situation. It starts with a more or less historical setting, but offers a lot of ways to go. There are different victory conditions to choose. Dependend on this the game might develop in quite different directions.

If you want to play close to the historical situation, there would be some changes necessary. First, strip off the different victory conditions and allow only the historical ones. Second, strip off the possibility of diplomatic influence and make minors only join those majors they historically joined, at the time they historically did. So instead of cards for diplomatic influence, just trigger that by date.

Ernieschwitz has implemented more options for diplomatic influence and implemented different victory conditions to make it more difficult to determine what the other players intend to do. You would just go back to previous versions by stripping off these implementations in order to link the game to historical situation. You might do so by setting house rules. But this would not be the game I like to play.

To blame this scenario being ahistorical is same as to blame HoI or EU for being ahistorical. HoI or EU allow players to choose a start time and sets the game historical situation of that date. And does this in a very detailed and accurate way. But once you hit the start button the game develops due to game mechanics and not along a historical path. For example, I started a game of HoI III playing Axis. At the beginning of 1940 I had taken France. Just when last French province fell, Spain joined an alliance with Britain. British and Spanish forces attacked the southwest French provinces I had just taken. What to do? Quit and send a message to the developers of HoI to blame the game for not being historically accurate? Or take the challenge, start a campaign in Spain and wait to attack SU?

There is a pint that is often forgotten when complaining that a game is ahistorical. The only way to play a game close to historical path would be to play sides as they were historically, have some success for Axis in the beginning and change to slow but steady defeat of Axis til the game ends in 1945. So why play a game when the outcome is already clear and in between it should not develop in a way that�s quite different from historical situation?

I had played a game that was very close to historical situation. Not by intention, but by the way we proceeded. Played Axis in ETO. My opponent took Berlin at beginning of May 1945. Was a great game. We played more than 200 turns. But I like to have the possibility to play a game in different ways. And this scenario offers this in a great way.

< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 3/4/2014 5:39:27 PM >

(in reply to Twotribes)

Post #: 15

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/27/2014 12:40:02 PM

ernieschwitz

Posts: 3893
Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RufusTFirefly

quote:

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

Which is ahistorical, Germany was in no position to start the war in 38.

These critics miss the point, I think.

This scenario, as I understand it, is not meant mainly to reflect historical situation. It starts with a more or less historical setting, but offers a lot of ways to go. There are different victory conditions to choose. Dependend on this the game might develop in quite different directions.

If you want to play close to the historical situation, there would be some changes necessary. First, strip off the different victory conditions and allow only the historical ones. Second, strip off the possibility of diplomatic influence and make minors only join those majors they historically joined, at the time they historically did. So instead of cards for diplomatic influence, just trigger that by date.

Ernieschwitz has implemented more options for diplomatic influence and implemented different victory conditions to make it more difficult to determine what the other players intend to do. You would just go back to previous versions by stripping off these implementations in order to link the game to historical situation. You might do so by setting house rules. But this would not be the game I like to play.

To blame this scenario being ahistorical is same as to blame HoI or EU for being ahistorical. HoI or EU allow players to choose a start time and sets the game historical situation of that date. And does this in a very detailed and accurate way. But once you hit the start button the game develops due to game mechanics and not along a historical path. For example, I started a game of HoI III playing Axis. At the beginning of 1940 I had taken France. Just when last French province fell, Spain joined an alliance with Britain. British and Spanish forces attacked the southwest French provinces I had just taken. What to do? Quit and send a message to the developers of HoI to blame the game for not being historically accurate? Or take the challenge, start a campaign in Spain and wait to attack SU?

There is a pint that is often forgotten when complaining that a game is ahistorical. The only way to play a game close to historical path would be to play sides as they were historically, have some success for Axis in the beginning and change to slow but steady defeat of Axis til the game ends in 1945. So why play a game when the outcome is already clear and in between it should not develop in a way that�s quite different from historical situation?

I had played a game that was very close to historical situation. Not by intention, but by the way we proceeded. Played Axis in ETO. My opponent took Berlin at beginning of May 1945. Was a great game. We played more than 200 turns. But I like to have the possibility to play a game in different ways. And this scenario offers this in a great way.

I would have to say that i agree wholeheartedly with Rufus on this. I wanted as much flexibility as possible for everyone, while having it be a similar setup as world war 2. I think me and Bombur have succeeded in creating something special, although it did take alot of work, it was worth it.

(in reply to RufusTFirefly)

Post #: 16

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/27/2014 12:43:37 PM

ernieschwitz

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Joined: 9/15/2009
From: Denmark
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

quote:

Which is ahistorical, Germany was in no position to start the war in 38.

Not sure if that is totally true all through the thirties the Germans had been secretly training massive reserves. France and the UK were still on a peace time footing the Soviet Union had obsolete weapon systems. The T34 being a good example this tank was available in 1941 when the Germans attacked but not in 1938.
So certainly Germany was weaker in 1938 than 1939 but so were her opponents.

Actually the OOBs are as close to home as we could get them. There is precious little data for 1938 january, but in most cases we got the data from around the same time approximately. I believe there still are some errors in the OOBs, but mostly I think we got it right. And when we find we made a mistake, we try to rectify it.

(in reply to ironduke1955)

Post #: 17

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/30/2014 4:50:53 PM

RufusTFirefly

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From: Germany
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As the ongoing is slow we have come only up to turn 9 meanwhile. Time to report about the last turns.

Turn 7

German forces attacked Denmark and took it in a quick advance. Now forces move further to Norway and Sweden. Defence is weak. So Malmo and Goteborg were taken easily.

In Belgium a strong defence line was formed by units from Belgium and Britian. German advance has come to a halt here.

Subs are operating successfully in North Sea and along the Atlantic route.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RufusTFirefly -- 3/30/2014 5:51:37 PM >

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RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/30/2014 4:52:27 PM

RufusTFirefly

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Turn 8

Italien forces are far more successful. Marseille had been taken and the area north of it was cleared. Pushing west Italien recon units found Toulouse being given up by French forces. It was taken without losses and without any damages.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 19

RE: GD 1938 v210 - 3/30/2014 4:53:23 PM

RufusTFirefly

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Turn 8

In Africa the Italien campaign is not running as planned. The advance against French forces in Tunesia and Algeria is successful. But the attempt to take Mid and Upper Egypt failed. Moving through the nothern parts of the Sahara and support coming from the south along the western banks of Red Sea, both groups were defeated by British forces. Remains of the Italien units try to make it back to Benghazi and the Italien territroy at the Horn of Africa, but suffer more losses while retreating.

In Med Sea the Allies are loosing lots of supply due to Italien subs.