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Some tips after the first Italy campaign

 
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Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 1:11:28 PM   
PKH

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 11/17/2011
Status: offline 		Just sharing what I've learned out so far as allies.

- Don't bother walking from Messina, just get enough sea transport to take Taranto, and a port on the west coast.
- Don't walk reinforcements from Messina, it quickly get's cheaper and faster to use sea transport.
- Stock up on sea transport while it's cheap, you will need a lot later to get reinforcements up. Get a couple or more per turn while they cost 1 supply.
- Try to only get combat supply when you're near a 100% port to save fuel. There's no fuel cost in the port hex.
- The AI will often withdraw from cities if you can pass them on the sides.
- The AI tends to move it's units around quite a bit, so gaps or weak points tend to open up.

Post #: 1
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 2:01:05 PM   
tombo

 

Posts: 356
Joined: 8/4/2007
Status: offline 		PKH,

does the game run smooth...any lockups, CTD, or gamey stuff or missing game play features?

Is there a game U can compare too so i can gauge some?

Looking to pickup soon.

cheers

(in reply to PKH)
Post #: 2
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 4:47:48 PM   
PKH

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 11/17/2011
Status: offline 		The game runs fine. The UI is on the whole ok, and the map is very functional and looks good. Some things like figuring out which beach is where in the port interface could be improved by moving the map to it when you click on ports and beaches f.ex. Same with reinforcements.

The axis AI seems ok, but it's not too hard to break through and isolate units, I find. Especially in the start when there's only a few units. I have to try playing the axis to get the full perspective.

I haven't played other wego games except flashpoint campaigns (?), so I don't have much to compare to. It is more interesting and realistic than traditional turn based games, I think.

What the replay value is, remains to be seen. I don't think I'll play allies again if I get a decisive victory in the current campaign. Playing as the axis could be the most interesting and is probably harder, but that depends on how good the allied AI is also.

(in reply to tombo)
Post #: 3
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 6:44:53 PM   
Duck Doc


Posts: 693
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline 		Shouldn't stockpiled transport points vanish as the Allies shift naval assets to northwest Europe for Overlord? Kind of gives the Allies a gamey advantage to stockpile this way.

Shouldn't walking be cheaper than taking a cruise? Really!

Sounds like you need a human opponent.

Congrats on your victory and

Just curious,

(Would be interested in other opinions about the AI.)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PKH

Just sharing what I've learned out so far as allies.

- Don't bother walking from Messina, just get enough sea transport to take Taranto, and a port on the west coast.
- Don't walk reinforcements from Messina, it quickly get's cheaper and faster to use sea transport.
- Stock up on sea transport while it's cheap, you will need a lot later to get reinforcements up. Get a couple or more per turn while they cost 1 supply.
- Try to only get combat supply when you're near a 100% port to save fuel. There's no fuel cost in the port hex.
- The AI will often withdraw from cities if you can pass them on the sides.
- The AI tends to move it's units around quite a bit, so gaps or weak points tend to open up.




(in reply to PKH)
Post #: 4
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 7:31:06 PM   
zgrant

 

Posts: 326
Joined: 11/6/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Shouldn't stockpiled transport points vanish as the Allies shift naval assets to northwest Europe for Overlord? Kind of gives the Allies a gamey advantage to stockpile this way.

Shouldn't walking be cheaper than taking a cruise? Really!



Transporting units becomes more expensive with the passage of time, so if you stockpile and wait to amphibious assault, it will cost more points. There is no advantage in waiting, in fact, waiting can make invading too expensive because it eats into your fuel and combat supplies.

Walking is much cheaper than the cruise, it is also much, much slower.

(in reply to Duck Doc)
Post #: 5
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/1/2014 8:47:49 PM   
PKH

 

Posts: 242
Joined: 11/17/2011
Status: offline 		The cost of buying goes up over time, but you pay when you buy. I don't think there's a cost to using them, at least I haven't noticed any.

I'm not saying one should wait a long time to invade. I invaded on turn 2 with 2 amphibious assaults.

The fuel spent walking to the front line gets expensive quickly, especially once workers for ports in the south are removed for use further north. Even at 100% supply you spend 1 fuel per stacking point per hex, so once you go beyond 25 hexes from Messina, it costs less fuel to use sea transport.

(in reply to zgrant)
Post #: 6
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/2/2014 4:04:29 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		I beat the AI in Sicily in an hour without even knowing the full rule set. In the first few turns of the grand campaign, I had already pocketed three German divisions.

The AI is not good enough to give any half decent player a fight. PBEM is your best bet at present.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to PKH)
Post #: 7
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/2/2014 4:17:28 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		The Sicily AI, for both sides, is weaker than it is in the Italian campaign as that's the introductory scenario and the Germans don't have the forces to maintain a real front.

In Italy the testers and I went back and forth on the AI a bit, trying to keep the Germans in place when holding a strong front while still making sure they remained mobile enough to deal with new threats. I did make a change in the final weeks to increase the German's tendency to stay put when in a strong line (Italy only, no changes to Sicily were made).

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 8
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/2/2014 5:52:45 PM   
FroBodine


Posts: 872
Joined: 5/5/2007
From: Brentwood, California (not the OJ one)
Status: offline 		I look forward to reading more opinions on the A.I. in the other scenarios. I also will play most of my time against the computer, so a good AI is essential.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 9
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/2/2014 10:42:32 PM   
Panzeh

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline 		When I did a campaign, i found that the AI did a slow fighting retreat up the boot that seemed moderately successful. I was able to destroy some of the panzergrenadier divisions, but still only got a minor victory because when I got to the Po Valley, the AI had a ton of units available and I didn't. Many units were still sitting in Messina for me.

I think the AI might have been able to form a solid defense had I stopped to make sure to ship the guys languishing in Messina, but it ended up hurting me in the Po as I just didn't have the units to clean everything up.

(in reply to FroBodine)
Post #: 10
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/3/2014 1:25:42 AM   
Ralph1961


Posts: 184
Joined: 10/4/2001
Status: offline 		Another tip
I have found that it can be tough to attack with multiple units especially the Americans due to stacking rules so make sure you can co ordinate units as much as possible.

(in reply to Panzeh)
Post #: 11
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/3/2014 3:04:53 PM   
Panzeh

 

Posts: 155
Joined: 4/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ralph Harper

Another tip
I have found that it can be tough to attack with multiple units especially the Americans due to stacking rules so make sure you can co ordinate units as much as possible.


Yeah, i've found that the smaller brigade sized units are great for this purpose. In my first campaign I mostly brought in 4/5 stack value armored and infantry divisions which ended up having a hard time in places.

(in reply to Ralph1961)
Post #: 12
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/3/2014 8:30:09 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter

The Sicily AI, for both sides, is weaker than it is in the Italian campaign as that's the introductory scenario and the Germans don't have the forces to maintain a real front.

In Italy the testers and I went back and forth on the AI a bit, trying to keep the Germans in place when holding a strong front while still making sure they remained mobile enough to deal with new threats. I did make a change in the final weeks to increase the German's tendency to stay put when in a strong line (Italy only, no changes to Sicily were made).



Thanks for replying, Frank. I love your game and will post or IM you any AI-related comments over the coming weeks. Don't let my rather blunt style put you off! This is a refreshing spin on the hex-based war game.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 13
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/3/2014 8:39:28 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		This is what I am seeing with the Axis AI in the Grand Campaign.

Despite my advance, the AI is still pushing individual units southwards, rather than forming a defensive line.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 14
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/3/2014 10:34:44 PM   
FrankHunter

 

Posts: 2111
Joined: 3/26/2004
Status: offline 		redmarkus, not at all, I'm always looking to improve the AI.

Its tough to tell a lot from a screenshot because although that looks like a threat in the east I'm not sure about some things. It looks like the game is in a very fluid state and the AI is more focused on objectives other than creating a line. Usually that fluid state settles down.

If you wish and you have the save for that turn email it to me at fhunter@telus.net and I'll load it and can walk through the AI and see why it decided to do what its doing.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 15
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/4/2014 2:22:08 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Thanks Frank - sending those now.

After losing 1-2 divisions the Axis AI has now pulled back and created the kind of line I would have expected.

Cheers,

MJ

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 16
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/7/2014 6:37:01 AM   
Leibst


Posts: 215
Joined: 1/13/2010
Status: offline 		redmarkus4 you are better that Guderian with that blitz!!!
I'm just learning the game but in my second try i'm at Naples and Foggia by Feb 1944. My advance is slower indeed and AI is not doing really bad, just a pair of div. surrendered.

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 17
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/8/2014 5:02:50 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leibst

redmarkus4 you are better that Guderian with that blitz!!!
I'm just learning the game but in my second try i'm at Naples and Foggia by Feb 1944. My advance is slower indeed and AI is not doing really bad, just a pair of div. surrendered.


OK... I had Naples from the turn before and by the next few turns I was able to start preparing to attack Cassino. This was on Normal difficulty.

Here is the March 44 situation. I find that Cassino does not represent the block to movement up the highway that it should. I can already see how I might simply bypass it.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Leibst)
Post #: 18
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/8/2014 6:24:37 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		The situation on 26 May 44. Instead of attempting a landing at Anzio, I forced the Gustav Line and flanked Cassino with a left hook up the highway.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 19
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/8/2014 6:37:52 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		Rome falls on 7 June. More Axis troops pocketed.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to Redmarkus5)
Post #: 20
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/9/2014 3:31:12 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankHunter
In Italy the testers and I went back and forth on the AI a bit, trying to keep the Germans in place when holding a strong front while still making sure they remained mobile enough to deal with new threats. I did make a change in the final weeks to increase the German's tendency to stay put when in a strong line (Italy only, no changes to Sicily were made).


I will confirm that the pre-release AI was alternately too aggressive or too passive at times. As Allies I once reached the Po Valley by late spring 1944, but in a another later game had my butt kicked out of Taranto. Frank has been very receptive to ideas regarding play balance, with the release version being fairly well balanced.

I think some more feedback from completed hth pbem games is needed to verify the "default" play balance? Then the game and the AI can be fine tuned some more to provide more challenge for both sides.

(in reply to FrankHunter)
Post #: 21
RE: Some tips after the first Italy campaign - 3/9/2014 5:38:06 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		The defensive AI moves its units around too much, IMO. I also pushes single divisions forwards with the result that they get pocketed.

Having said that, at least it doesn't flee or abandon key points without a fight like some AIs I could mention. I have a feeling that it would actually do a better job on the eastern front than another game I have played in recent years.

_____________________________

WitE2 tester, WitW, WitP, CMMO, CM2, GTOS, GTMF, WP & WPP, TOAW4, BA2

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 22
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