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Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:16:24 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Its a real shame that double standards are employed on the Matrix Forums when it comes to political threads. There is a no politics rule which is vigorously applied in the General Discussion forum, but this does not seem to apply to the WITP-AE forum.

When, on the GD forum there was a recent discussion about Scottish Independence, the discussion was mature, thought provoking and, despite its contentious nature, was conducted in an entirely civilised manner. It was still closed down.

On the WITP-AE forum certain individuals have been discussing the Ukraine (a couple of threads on similar subject on this forum were immediately locked) and nothing is done.

So does the rule about no politics exist for all or not?

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805


Post #: 1
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:45:11 AM   
Ranger33

 

Posts: 557
Joined: 8/11/2012
Status: offline 		It's Sunday, I doubt they watch the forums like hawks over the weekend. Nothing to get in a huff about.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 2
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:47:41 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Not really in a huff - Just hacked off with the superior attitude of some people….

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Ranger33)
Post #: 3
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 4:20:46 AM   
rodney727


Posts: 1460
Joined: 7/12/2011
From: Iowa
Status: offline 		I agree with you Warspite the Scottish thread was very good and the debate was very rational.

_____________________________

"I thank God that I was warring on the gridirons of the midwest and not the battlefields of Europe"
Nile Kinnick 1918-1943

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 4
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 4:52:13 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Different moderators on the game forums usually also.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 5
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:39:34 AM   
gradenko2k

 

Posts: 935
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		This isn't really specific to Matrix Games - when you have multiple sub-forums and a limited number of moderators, and/or moderators that are not consistent in their application of policy across sub-forums, you can have these situations where a sub-forum starts becoming somewhat insular. There are quite a few tales of GameFAQs posters "taking over" the sub-forum for very obscure games and using it as their own, the internet equivalent of a lawless Wild Wild West of the internet. You could probably pull off something similar here - the Making History II sub-forum or something.

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 6
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 6:15:54 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Well if that thread is acceptable to Matrix over there I might as well take the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em approach

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to gradenko2k)
Post #: 7
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 7:25:18 AM   
Neilster


Posts: 2890
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Surely a thread purely about the military aspects of the Ukraine crisis should be possible?

Of course if this forum was around on September 1st, 1939 we couldn't have a "German invasion of Poland" thread. Too political

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 8
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 9:01:19 AM   
IainMcNeil


Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline 		Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 9
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 11:40:23 AM   
bayonetbrant

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 5/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Surely a thread purely about the military aspects of the Ukraine crisis should be possible?



yep: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8629.0



< Message edited by bayonetbrant -- 3/3/2014 12:40:52 PM >

(in reply to Neilster)
Post #: 10
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 2:23:39 PM   
british exil


Posts: 1686
Joined: 5/4/2006
From: Lower Saxony Germany
Status: offline 		When does a thread start to become political?

Mat

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WitE,UV,AT,ATG,FoF,FPCRS

(in reply to bayonetbrant)
Post #: 11
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 2:59:27 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline 		Would it not be possible to have a discussion area where politics etc is allowed to be discussed with obvious warnings and disclaimers. Sites such as boardgamegeek have dedicated areas. I feel that this enhances the experience of the overall forum, especially when military games always have a political dimension.

I know I have used this forum less since I have found sites where games and discussions go hand in hand.

(in reply to british exil)
Post #: 12
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:12:50 PM   
bayonetbrant

 

Posts: 431
Joined: 5/17/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

Would it not be possible to have a discussion area where politics etc is allowed to be discussed with obvious warnings and disclaimers.


This was just discussed in the last 2 months, as Slaak brought it up.

That thread has apparently been deleted, but the community consensus was very much "not no, but hell no" with only a few dissenting votes.


FWIW, with a decent moderator presence, it can work (let me again offer a plug for GrogHeads here), but these forums are (and should be) focused on Matrix Games and the mods try to keep that focus in the forefront.

(in reply to PunkReaper)
Post #: 13
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:15:29 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to IainMcNeil)
Post #: 14
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:20:44 PM   
PunkReaper


Posts: 1085
Joined: 8/23/2006
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.




Thanks for the reply, as I said I haven't been around for a while. Personal reasons not related to Matrix forum.

Now about Scottish Independence....

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 15
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:23:54 PM   
undercovergeek

 

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.



could it be because youre considered to be in the shop window here?

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 16
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:25:19 PM   
danlongman

 

Posts: 586
Joined: 3/27/2012
From: Over the hills and far away
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bayonetbrant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster
Surely a thread purely about the military aspects of the Ukraine crisis should be possible?



yep: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8629.0



Unfortunately can't go there.

_____________________________

"Patriotism: Your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it." - George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to bayonetbrant)
Post #: 17
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:36:23 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Mom...Dad...Bullwinkle and Alfred are talking politics!!! Help..make them stop!!

(in reply to danlongman)
Post #: 18
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:40:32 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.



Ran back to your clubhouse I see. Stay. Please. The adults are talking in the AE forum.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 19
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:53:04 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.



could it be because youre considered to be in the shop window here?

warspite1

If that is the case then why not be told that is the case?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to undercovergeek)
Post #: 20
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:57:59 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Erik re Scottish Independence

quote:

No politics means no politics, thanks you, though I greatly appreciate the overall level of politeness and the interest in the subject. Thread locked.


Wdolson re OT: Ukrainian Crisis

quote:

I've been away most of the day and this thread has spun up. This thread has been drifting over the line a few times.

We do discuss current events here, but while I know it's tough to leave the politics out of this, can we try to do so? Political opinions can and do range all over the map and expressing them can generate a lot of ill will, especially in the US right now. This is probably why Matrix discourages modern political discussions.



I call that double standards.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 21
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 3:58:54 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.



Ran back to your clubhouse I see. Stay. Please. The adults are talking in the AE forum.
warspite1

Oi Winkle - why don't you stop being such a twat?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 22
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 4:09:18 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Can you refer us to any threads that might need us to take action. We have hundreds of thousands of posts and nobody has seen them all unfortunately.
warspite1

Looks like there is no point. The moderator of that forum has decided that although OT: Ukrainian Crises is a political thread and has crossed over the lines a few times already, it is okay to continue with it (whereas Scottish Independence and Ukraina Crises - Kremlin Next Moves on this forum, were of course, not allowed).

I must confess I am really disappointed in the uneven and inconsistent way that Matrix has chosen to treat its forumites. This behaviour simply feeds the astounding arrogance of the likes of Bullwinkle and Alfred - the former who believes that those that use the General Discussion Forum are (and I quote) "a howling bunch of yokels" and latter who believes that we are retarded as we "have no ability to grasp more complex games"

Sadly I cannot find the rest of the latters quotes - but the rest of his diatribe against this forum was in much the same vein.



Ran back to your clubhouse I see. Stay. Please. The adults are talking in the AE forum.
warspite1

Oi Winkle - why don't you stop being such a twat?

warspite1

Edit: I will take that comment re the slavery issue back as I know that, even you, did not mean to make it sound like you did. I don't owe you that favour - but you can have that one on me. Good job for you I'm a grown up.

P.S The Twat comment remains.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 3/3/2014 5:36:25 PM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 23
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:06:26 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		It is obvious that the general forum has a stricter policy than the subforums.

Some from those subforums just appear on the general forum when they feel that their sect has been insulted. Maybe sect was the wrong word but some of the insults I've read towards the finest gentleman I know has got me somewhat upset.

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 24
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:11:05 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

It's not a double-standard, we just don't have time to read all the threads in all the sub-forums on a regular basis. Calling our attention to problem threads is the best way to make sure a moderator sees them.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 25
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:14:09 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

It's not a double-standard, we just don't have time to read all the threads in all the sub-forums on a regular basis. Calling our attention to problem threads is the best way to make sure a moderator sees them.

Regards,

- Erik

warspite1

Erik I did - I PM'd you last night. Now fair enough you did not see the message (I'm sure you have better things to do), but the thread was allowed to continue once it had been noticed this morning.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 26
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:17:35 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi Warspite,

I'm not sure where you message went, but I still haven't seen it. Just went and looked at the thread now as as result of noticing this forum thread.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 27
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:22:08 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Erik that is strange, I sent it in the usual way i.e. clicking on your name and then clicking e-mail so the little box comes up.

Anyway - thanks for looking at this.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 28
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:22:27 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22154
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Why, if I may ask, was that thread moved to the general forum after it was locked?

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 29
RE: Double Standards - 3/3/2014 5:26:16 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		The individual game forums are for discussion regarding those games. The Russian invasion of the Ukraine has nothing to do with War in the Pacific, so it was off-topic. Threads that are not specific to one of our games should be in the General Discussion forum and political threads should be locked, so hence step 1 to move it here and step 2 to lock it.

Regards,

- Erik


_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 30
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