RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> After Action Reports >> RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome)

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/30/2013 11:10:24 AM

morvael

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Steady progress through the landbrige, despite tough opposition and difficult terrain:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/30/2013 11:10:44 AM

morvael

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Latvian border is so close:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/30/2013 11:11:06 AM

morvael

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Operation Red Death successful! The road to Vyborg was not protected adequately, and the city itself was garrisoned only by a single fortified zone. Pushing away two brigades and an infantry division was enough to reach the target. 3rd Guards Mechanized Corps and 10th Guards Tank Corps of Bogdanov's 3rd Tank Army forced the enemy to flee, while 4th Guards Tank Corps of Rybalko's 2nd Tank Army entered the city. STAVKA hopes that Finland is finished:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/30/2013 11:11:28 AM

morvael

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25 new rifle corps were formed, including 5 guards. Last week 4 corps were formed. This is done to reduce number of units, while increasing their strength. This will help with supply and command situation. For now the goal is to have 3 corps per army. Rotmistrov of the 1st Tank Army was promoted to General Armii.

Strength:
men: 9 950 628 vs 5 135 478
guns: 158 321 vs 52 057
AFVs: 15 886 vs 7 405
aircraft: 21 389 vs 3 471

Trucks:
in units: 264 627 / 270 477 (97.84%)
in the pool: 149 921 / 149 270 (100.44%)
in repair: 104 682

Losses:
killed: 22 261 vs 19 050
captured: 283 vs 1 103
disabled: 3 044 vs 6 753
guns: 661 vs 1 133
AFVs: 284 vs 47
aircraft: 101 vs 15

Including:
in combat: 38 vs 13
from AA: 8 vs 0
on the ground: 0 vs 0
operational: 55 vs 2

< Message edited by morvael -- 12/30/2013 12:11:46 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/31/2013 7:38:06 AM

loki100

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excellent bit of wailing on the Finns, you dismantled their defense lines pretty quickly

from your last post, seems as if the truck situation is finally under control?

If so, should help the drive to liberate the last sections of the USSR

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 12/31/2013 9:01:49 AM

morvael

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I think the road along the coast of the gulf and the city itself wasn't adequately protected and only because of that I got into the city so fast. Probably too many forces in Karelia and around Keksholm. Finland is not important to the greater war unless you count every single truck, and those forts on the Finnish No Attack Line costed me too much (huge distance to railhead, no HQ, also each unit takes it's base toll - therefore it's better to reduce their number). I did the attack just to be able to disband those forts and four naval rifle brigades.

Truck situation improved for 2-3 turns (enough for the "Red Death" operation), but soon the blizzard took it's toll and again it dropped below 100%. Only in snow and clear I can hope to return above 100%. The truth is also that the .12/.13 patch increased my truck needs considerably (by some 20k) because it was a trick on the old, buggy, version than when I moved support units from combat units (where I paid too much in trucks for them) to HQs (where I didn't pay in trucks for them) I was able to get above 100%. Now whether they are at HQs or combat units I have to pay the correct amount of trucks.

In this weather I can only push the Germans back and hope for their exhaustion because of losses. I can't outmaneuver them (seems to work on the Rumanians, but not on the Germans and Hungarians). Standard movement is one hex+attack or two hexes (for the rifle corps). With Axis one hex withdrawal it means I can't really break deep through his lines, and when I try to do it, they can quickly counterattack with strong panzers to rescue their surrounded unit (unit, because no more than 1 hex can be surrounded by my Tank Armies this way when there are no rifle corps to assist on the flanks). The Germans are not using my style of strong front-line defense, rather defend in depth, which means there are always ZOC penalties to pay and the movement slows down to a crawl. Also, due to reserve activations I have to use overwhelming force (deliberate attacks) so they will not trigger, turning my attack into defeat. Hasties are reserved only for 6:1 initial ratios on counters.

I also think the Guard Army requirements are too high, I haven't got a single army convert to Guards and it's already 1944! This would help with movement as they give +1 ADM.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:51:27 PM

morvael

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Turn 136

Finland surrendered! Operation Red Death was a total success!

Slowly grinding on towards Nikolaev and Kirovograd:

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< Message edited by morvael -- 3/2/2014 6:53:46 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:51:51 PM

morvael

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Advancing on both sides of the Dnepr towards Kiev:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:52:29 PM

morvael

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Center has serious problems with railroads, railheads are nearly hundred miles away to the back. It's hard to catch up with the retreating enemy:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:52:51 PM

morvael

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Vitebsk captured by Konev's troops, his political rating improves. No doubt he is Stalin's favourite (as Zhukov bites the dust since June '41):

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:53:13 PM

morvael

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Leningrad Front reaches Estonian border west of Pskov. A new air tactics is tested - attacks on enemy airbases. The results are promising:

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< Message edited by morvael -- 3/2/2014 6:54:12 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/2/2014 5:53:40 PM

morvael

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Strength:
men: 9 990 227 vs 4 781 548
guns: 159 073 vs 48 356
AFVs: 15 827 vs 7 061
aircraft: 21 456 vs 3 061

Trucks:
in units: 261 538 / 270 092 (96.83%)
in the pool: 150 967 / 157 104 (96.09%)
in repair: 109 383

Losses:
killed: 18 000 vs 14 788
captured: 210 vs 373
disabled: 1 159 vs 3 308
guns: 516 vs 863
AFVs: 315 vs 68
aircraft: 124 vs 57

Including:
in combat: 40 vs 30
from AA: 22 vs 2
on the ground: 0 vs 24
operational: 62 vs 1

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 8:37:26 PM

GamesaurusRex

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What I want to know is why did the German Player in this game give so many "wins" to the Russian player in 41-42 ? Was this game versus stupid AI or against a player who was ignorant of the game mechanics that make it easy for the German to avoid this ?

If a human opponent plays the German side, he can effectively deny you 41-42 "wins" by simply not leaving his troops in exposed positions and the Russian will never develop so many Guards status units.

This bothers me because Morvael seems to think that the process of creating Russian Guards units is easy, when in fact, it is near impossible when the German side uses the game mechanics to thwart it.

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/3/2014 9:48:02 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 8:46:23 PM

morvael

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I had no wins in 41 and 42 (blizzard excluded). For me "win" was when I was pushed back slowly and without losing units to encirclement.

< Message edited by morvael -- 3/3/2014 9:47:26 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 8:48:46 PM

GamesaurusRex

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So all your Guards units in this game were created in 43 ?

My point is that the game grants guard status on "wins" vs "losses" using a formula of three conditions ( according to the rules) . Nowhere in those rules does it state that retreats qualify as "wins". Are you telling me they do ?

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/3/2014 9:52:40 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 8:59:49 PM

Tarhunnas

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It is quite common to get some Guards units before the blizzard, even against a competent human opponent. A German player cannot completely deny the Soviets any wins, possibly minimize them by playing extremely cautiously, but being that cautions as the German will hurt the Germans more than the Soviets.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 9:03:03 PM

GamesaurusRex

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I am playing the Russian side on turn 99 of a PBEM (patch .11) against a highly competent German opponent and having managed to survive 42, I am in May 43 trying to figure out how the Russian is supposed to push back. So far no luck... up to this point, I, similar to you, have been pushed back without being encircled... but I have gained NO Guards.. in fact I had to give up some early Guards Divisions I was given initially to form Corp to stop the panzer ball.

I'm just wondering what mechanism people are using to gain guards. I don't see it being possible against a good opponent.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 9:05:50 PM

GamesaurusRex

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas

It is quite common to get some Guards units before the blizzard, even against a competent human opponent. A German player cannot completely deny the Soviets any wins, possibly minimize them by playing extremely cautiously, but being that cautions as the German will hurt the Germans more than the Soviets.

Nonsense... Play Wheat...

< Message edited by GamesaurusRex -- 3/3/2014 10:07:44 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/3/2014 10:35:15 PM

M60A3TTS

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Pelton's not highly competent?

I had 19 guards rifle divs by blizzard

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 3/3/2014 11:47:41 PM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 1:09:09 AM

GamesaurusRex

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@M60A3TTS:

And you won your game against Pelton... Right ?

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 2:26:24 AM

M60A3TTS

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No, but that wasn't what was being discussed.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 5:54:16 AM

morvael

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First of all holds are also wins. Second - a small core of guards units can be formed because of blizzard (with mild blizzard surely less, but I was playing at a time when this wasn't an option). I remember having just one guards rifle and one guards cavalry division before the blizzard. I can get numbers from other periods of time by checking saves, I have them all. My failure in the guards department is measured by the fact that it's April '44 and I have yet not a single Guards Army... It's much harder to get these, the number of required wins is insane.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 9:11:47 AM

M60A3TTS

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What's the win-loss tally of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Tank Armies? You appeared to be over the limit a while ago to convert to guards.

And how many artillery divisions do you have?

< Message edited by M60A3TTS -- 3/4/2014 10:13:09 AM >

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 11:17:02 AM

morvael

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My best armies are close to the 75 trigger limit, but are not yet there. Barely crossing it gives a very small chance to pass the random test (75+random(75)) and convert. Corps units got to guards status fast because of the support unit bug giving them double wins (at least one support unit bug that was working for the player, rather than against the player like the leader or supply or truck bugs). Armies lag behind. I will provide hard numbers when I get home.

I have already stated that I have very little in terms of arty divs: just two breakthrough and two rocket and use them on the big cities. I'm close to changing my opinion about them (I need to drain German MP fast, so I need to cause more damage, as I can't outmaneuver them and get deep penetrations, it's grind all the time), but I wanted to clear corps and support units mess first. I'm in the process of disbanding tank regiments (not enough T-34/85 to fill them all and all the corps) and light SU regiments (due to free command capacity I want to switch to light SU brigades - 1 per army instead 3-4 regiments - this will help with the truck situation as well, while still giving me a chance to utilize the 120+ SU-76M weekly production).

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 7:43:22 PM

morvael

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

What's the win-loss tally of 1st, 2nd and 3rd Tank Armies? You appeared to be over the limit a while ago to convert to guards.

Because a picture is worth a thousand words:

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 7:48:04 PM

morvael

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1st Tank Army unfrozen turn 63
2nd Tank Army unfrozen turn 66
3rd Tank Army unfrozen turn 67
4th Tank Army unfrozen turn 103
5th Tank Army unfrozen turn 120
6th Tank Army unfrozen turn 121

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/4/2014 7:51:04 PM

morvael

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On turn 148 1st Tank Army is at 76/21, 2nd at 52/8, 3rd at 49/12, 4th at 31/3, 5th at 7/2, 6th at 14/0.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/5/2014 4:13:01 PM

GamesaurusRex

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Morvael:
The only point of my comment is that under the current patches, the road to Guard Status during 41-42 is very steep indeed. Don't allow earlier patch bug experiences to cloud your opinion.

This comment is with respect to the period of 41-42-early43... I have not yet progressed past summer of 43, so I have no opinion about that period yet.

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/5/2014 4:32:02 PM

Tarhunnas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GamesaurusRex

Morvael:
The only point of my comment is that under the current patches, the road to Guard Status during 41-42 is very steep indeed. Don't allow earlier patch bug experiences to cloud your opinion.

This comment is with respect to the period of 41-42-early43... I have not yet progressed past summer of 43, so I have no opinion about that period yet.

Hmmm... I am in late February 42 right now, playing with the latest patch from the beginning, and IMHO getting guards status is roughly the same as in all my previous games. To me the rate of Guards conversions seems pretty reasonable.

_____________________________

Read my AAR:s ye mighty, and despair!
41Ger
41Sov
41Ger
42Ger
42Sov

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RE: Russia! Why not? (Morvael welcome) - 3/5/2014 6:39:47 PM

morvael

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It was easier to farm wins with stronger blizzard and double wins if you had support units attached (applies only to corps though). Must be harder now, but how much I don't know. Perhaps this rewards aggressive players using the 1:1-2:1 rule.

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