My take on the game

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My take on the game - 2/28/2014 4:53:23 AM

39battalion

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Well it took me quite a while before I finally jumped in and purchased this game. My initial concerns were :

(1) Would the board game pedigree translate successfully into a computer game ?

(2) Never having played a LocknLoad game I was unsure about the game mechanics.

(3) The graphic art I saw in some of the screenshots looked a little cartoony. Would this detract from immersion and game play ?

After playing through the tutorials and one scenario against the AI these are my conclusions :

(1) Yes it works well as a computer game.

(2) The game mechanics are excellent and the game has an authentic tactical combat feel.

(3) The graphic art does not detract from immersion or game play.

(4) The tutorials provide a very good introduction for players new to the game system. Kudos to the tutorial designers for providing one of the best tutorial series I have encountered.

(5) The combat sounds are evocative.

(6) The game is exciting, immersive and fun to play. Not many games manage to give you all three of these experiences !

(7) I have only two concerns about the game : (a) It seems to me that heroes are created too often and too easily. IMHO it would be better for game play and immersion if they were a little harder to come by. (b) Replaying scenarios/campaigns against the AI may not provide much variety in setups and outcomes. If this is the case then more scenarios/campaigns will be needed for the solo player.

In summary this is a very good game and a credit to the developers. If you are still on the fence, time to jump off and make a good investment !

Post #: 1

RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 5:21:41 AM

z1812

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 39battalion

(7) I have only two concerns about the game : (a) It seems to me that heroes are created too often and too easily. IMHO it would be better for game play and immersion if they were a little harder to come by.

I have been thinking the same thing.

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Post #: 2

RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 7:28:00 AM

ioticus

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I think there's an 8.3% chance of a hero being created every time a unit takes a damage check (looking at the board game rules), so yeah, sounds too high to me.

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 8:23:15 AM

fran52

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To reduce this 8,3% ,the only way is to modify the program.One possibility is to request a dr of 1 or 2 in the second dr instead of an even result.

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 8:37:10 AM

ioticus

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If I were to modify it I would make it so you had to role snake eyes (2.7% chance).

< Message edited by ioticus -- 2/28/2014 9:39:40 AM >

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 8:37:59 AM

wodin

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+1 ioticus

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 8:44:49 AM

fran52

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Sorry ,but i'm Italian and my English is not very strong.What mean snake eyes?Is typical way of saying in English?

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 8:48:30 AM

ioticus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: acropora

Sorry ,but i'm Italian and my English is not very strong.What mean snake eyes?Is typical way of saying in English?

Snake eyes is when you roll two ones on 2 dice.

< Message edited by ioticus -- 2/28/2014 9:50:31 AM >

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 9:18:41 AM

fran52

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quote:

Snake eyes is when you roll two ones on 2 dice.

Now is clear,thank you.2 X 1 on 2 dice is like the ASL system but here we have to roll 1 dice .

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 11:02:31 AM

Dorb

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I agree. For me seems like that 8.3% always happens at a pivotal point in the battle,(and usually on the other side) which I understand it could happen in life - but simply means a reboot of the scenario for me.

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 11:39:21 AM

Barthheart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorb

I agree. For me seems like that 8.3% always happens at a pivotal point in the battle,(and usually on the other side) which I understand it could happen in life - but simply means a reboot of the scenario for me.

Kind of the whole point of a hero... to show up at a pivotal point in a battle and save the day.... for either side.

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 5:42:44 PM

Dorb

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Yep and then hit the restart. Shame they don't pop out sooner in the battle with the long range shooting. Guess they are afraid.

Maybe at the pivotal point the percentage goes up a bit.

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Post #: 12

RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 6:05:44 PM

FroBodine

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Why restart when you get a hero? Do you think they are unbalanced?

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RE: My take on the game - 2/28/2014 10:05:30 PM

toddtreadway

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Initially, I didn't like the fact that so many heroes appear. I guess it was the ASL player in me (where hero creation is a much bigger deal--and more rare).

Now though, I kind of like them showing up. The idea of one guy coming out of the squad to save the day is actually pretty realistic, though more random. And like Dorb says, if it is too much to take at the moment, just reload/restart.

That said, if there was an option to make it less likely that would be fine with me too.

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Post #: 14

RE: My take on the game - 3/1/2014 1:46:57 AM

Veldor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

Initially, I didn't like the fact that so many heroes appear. I guess it was the ASL player in me (where hero creation is a much bigger deal--and more rare).

Now though, I kind of like them showing up. The idea of one guy coming out of the squad to save the day is actually pretty realistic, though more random. And like Dorb says, if it is too much to take at the moment, just reload/restart.

That said, if there was an option to make it less likely that would be fine with me too.

I agree and like it as is. Perhaps its not the percentage or the mechanic so much as the term "hero". Also isn't the point as much to give you a card to play?
It definitely scratches the ASL itch without feeling like some cheesy ripoff. And a big part of that for me is in how the leader system works (And the "shaken" morale system, and the melee, well and the activation system, and...)

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RE: My take on the game - 3/1/2014 10:04:50 AM

baloo7777

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

Initially, I didn't like the fact that so many heroes appear. I guess it was the ASL player in me (where hero creation is a much bigger deal--and more rare).

Now though, I kind of like them showing up. The idea of one guy coming out of the squad to save the day is actually pretty realistic, though more random. And like Dorb says, if it is too much to take at the moment, just reload/restart.

That said, if there was an option to make it less likely that would be fine with me too.

+1

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RE: My take on the game - 3/1/2014 11:04:42 AM

tyrion22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

Initially, I didn't like the fact that so many heroes appear. I guess it was the ASL player in me (where hero creation is a much bigger deal--and more rare).

Now though, I kind of like them showing up. The idea of one guy coming out of the squad to save the day is actually pretty realistic, though more random. And like Dorb says, if it is too much to take at the moment, just reload/restart.

That said, if there was an option to make it less likely that would be fine with me too.

I like it as it is too. If I was to change it, I wouldn't make it a lot less likely overall, but maybe less likely in hexes with fresh units, more likely in hexes with shaken units. After all, it's when they appear together with a lot of shaken units they create the best narrative. The guy that saves the day when all is lost.

< Message edited by oivind22 -- 3/1/2014 12:05:46 PM >

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RE: My take on the game - 3/1/2014 4:27:57 PM

tigercub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: baloo7777

quote:

ORIGINAL: toddtreadway

Initially, I didn't like the fact that so many heroes appear. I guess it was the ASL player in me (where hero creation is a much bigger deal--and more rare).

Now though, I kind of like them showing up. The idea of one guy coming out of the squad to save the day is actually pretty realistic, though more random. And like Dorb says, if it is too much to take at the moment, just reload/restart.

That said, if there was an option to make it less likely that would be fine with me too.

+1

+2

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RE: My take on the game - 3/3/2014 8:56:13 PM

madDdog67

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I just got trounced in Human Wave, and it didn't help that there were 2 Soviet heroes on the board pretty much from the first turn on. Got to be that I dreaded the next die roll after seeing a 1 on the DC :).

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RE: My take on the game - 3/3/2014 9:36:40 PM

markhwalker

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To be honest I sometimes think.... and this is almost 11 years after I designed the game, that heroes pop up too often. The number of heroes would be hard to change without a rewrite on some of the scenarios, but we might be able to tweak the probability, but then again... that would deviate from the board game.

Tom, the programmer, wrote the tutorials, and he did a great job.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 12:03:38 PM

tyrion22

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quote:

ORIGINAL: markhwalker
To be honest I sometimes think.... and this is almost 11 years after I designed the game, that heroes pop up too often. The number of heroes would be hard to change without a rewrite on some of the scenarios, but we might be able to tweak the probability, but then again... that would deviate from the board game.

I guess it's completely unrealistic to change the system now, but what do you think of a house rule that replaces the 'second die must be even'-rule with:

If the second die is 6 or higher, you get a hero. Modify the roll by adding the number of shaken squads that was in the hex before the attackers roll (not those that become shaken as a result of this attack). Two half squads count as one squad, and SMCs don't count (SMCs can't help spawn new SMCs).

That way, you should think twice before firing at big stacks of shaken units (with three shaken units they get a hero if the second die is 3 or higher). If you keep firing at them, you may end up pushing that one guy over the edge. Heroes are fun, but they are most fun when they show up in desperate situations.

< Message edited by oivind22 -- 3/4/2014 1:06:29 PM >

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 12:23:49 PM

vonRocko

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To many heroes, to easy to get and to powerful.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 12:59:59 PM

fran52

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Is the same to say:the second fie must be a one,like i say in the post 4

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 3:04:58 PM

tyrion22

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Yes, but then you would have subtract the number of shaken squads. But that's just as easy I guess, and is more in line with how other kinds of tests are done (like spotting and laying smoke).

< Message edited by oivind22 -- 3/4/2014 4:15:24 PM >

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 3:18:48 PM

Barthheart

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I think he means you should need to roll a second 1 to get the hero instead of an even number, so 1 in 6 instead of 3 in 6 chance.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 3:52:00 PM

tyrion22

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Yes, that's how I understand him too, but my additional suggestion is that you subtract the number of shaken squads in the target hex from that second roll, and get a hero on 1 or less. That way, heroes will be more likely in stacks of shaken squads.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/4/2014 5:01:26 PM

markhwalker

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quote:

Yes, that's how I understand him too, but my additional suggestion is that you subtract the number of shaken squads in the target hex from that second roll, and get a hero on 1 or less. That way, heroes will be more likely in stacks of shaken squads.

No, I don't really want to go that route, but an interesting idea.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/5/2014 2:39:29 AM

baloo7777

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What about having Hero's limited to two max per scenario per unit type (counter color)?

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RE: My take on the game - 3/5/2014 4:20:12 PM

jwarrenw13

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I have a different view on the generation of heroes. First, Mark says he wants to simulate chaos in the game. Fewer heroes means less chaos, less uncertainty. Second, a reading of WWII literature, and several studies of the actions of men in combat in WWII, show that very often a few people shouldered much of the load in firefights, doing things that might be called brave or foolish or outrageous, but things that had a significant effect on the outcome. So perhaps more heroes is more realistic than fewer heroes. That of course is a matter of debate, but if we go back to the idea of increasing chaos, more heroes means more chaos, fewer heroes means less chaos. From that standpoint, I have no problem with having to deal with the current system of generating heroes.

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RE: My take on the game - 3/6/2014 8:17:26 AM

Skanvak

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To Mark : the board game is made for 2 people and use generally fewer units tahn computer games, that why people didn't bring the heroes problem.

My suggestion : I would not tweak the chance of heroes popping up as it is true to the boardgame (though it is aninteresting idea) but I would rather put an absolute limit to the number of heroes in a scenario (ie only 4 heroes can pop up druing the whole scenario. Once you have get 4 hereos (at different time) you cannot roll for them again). The other solution is to make limit the heros generation on a squad basic. Once a squad has generated a hero it cannot generate another heros (but it will damage the side with the less unit that why I prefer my first suggestion).

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Post #: 30