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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Command: Modern Operations series >> Tech Support >> Mine clearing 4.99 candidate

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Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/7/2014 1:56:43 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

Hi Guys!

I'm still seeing some problems with either the mine clearing logic or DB data.

The MH-53H Sea Dragons are detonating generic rising mines while in transit with no gear deployed. Altitute: 12K feet. Speed 150kts.
Confirmed all sensors deselected. I also noticed this happened with a Seahawk with a surveillance loadout, but less often. The Sea Dragons would detonate each one they passed over. The Seahawk only blew one of the five it flew over.

Also, shouldn't floating mines be spotted at close range by the Mk 1 Eyeball at least? I haven't been able to have a floating mine discovered no matter what I do.

One final observation for now: The AMNS system appears to be ineffective against Moored [M08] mines. Is this correct?

Thanks for your help.

Post #: 1

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/7/2014 2:02:31 PM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Hi Zathras, and thank you for the feedback on this. This is good stuff.

Is it possible to post saves detailing each problem (one save per issue)? This would allow us to localize and resolve the problems _much_ faster.

Thanks!

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RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/7/2014 9:34:25 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

Here are my saves.

I really thought I was running 4.99, but my earlier test was run against 4.98. As a result, the defect I noticed where the rising mines were being detonated by helos at 12K feet is no longer valid. However, I notice that the AMNS system is not clearing the moored mines and no one spots the floating mines.

Save 1 is before all helicopters enter the first minefield (rising mines).

Save 2 is after exit. You can see that none of the rising mines detonated.

Save 3 is after Save 2 has run quite a while. You will see the reports of floating and rising mines being detonated, but none for the moored mine using the AMNS system.
Also, the Seahawk has been in the leftmost minefield (floating) and none show up with god's eye turned off. Also, no message.

Sorry about the screwup. Again, these saves were produced using 4.99.

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Post #: 3

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 2:28:53 AM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

I'm experiencing similar with B499.

I have 2 helos on a mine-clearing mission; in previous builds they would clear by suicide, as well as transit to the mission area at clearance speed/alt. Now they transit correctly and find the mines OK, but don't clear them. I can't figure out any way to manually clear them either.

So, getting there, but a little bit more needed...

Save included; helos are Bell Bottom #1 & #2.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by guanotwozero -- 3/8/2014 3:29:42 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 8:14:31 AM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: guanotwozero
So, getting there, but a little bit more needed...

And now you know why we are sometimes cagey with user requests. This was working 100% before everyone started asking for his little pet peeve.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 3/8/2014 9:18:15 AM >

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RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 12:20:40 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

Was my save file received? I don't see it attached. Here's a second try. Let me know. Sorry.

Guanotwozero, If you're not clearing the mines, check to see what gear you're using. Not all rigs will work with all types of mines. i.e., AMNS won't work on surface mines.

Attachment (1)

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RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 2:41:29 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathras1
Guanotwozero, If you're not clearing the mines, check to see what gear you're using. Not all rigs will work with all types of mines. i.e., AMNS won't work on surface mines.

In this case the gear is Seafox I, which should kill sub-surface mines. The mine symbols are for moored, but there's no information about depth.

Or are moored mines assumed to be at the surface? In which case the behaviour is correct. Can anyone clarify?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn
And now you know why we are sometimes cagey with user requests. This was working 100% before everyone started asking for his little pet peeve.

I'd expect the team to ALWAYS be cagey with user requests, as man-hours are limited.

However, that should act as a "good idea" filter rather than an impenetrable barrier, which clearly is the policy, as I'm delighted to see.

I'm late to the party on this one; I only encountered a broken feature getting steadily fixed, so I don't know what was the original "good idea" that broke it.

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Post #: 7

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 5:02:05 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

quote:

In this case the gear is Seafox I, which should kill sub-surface mines. The mine symbols are for moored, but there's no information about depth. Or are moored mines assumed to be at the surface? In which case the behaviour is correct. Can anyone clarify?

The M08 moored mine in CMANO -- although it doesn't specifically state it -- is a contact mine. You would need to look in the DB to see this. So it would be under the water relatively close to the surface. I get the same results as you do with the AMNS rig and am waiting for a reply to my question as to whether this system should be effective against this type of mine.

The other moored mines are a mixed bag. The generic moored mine and the SADAF-02 are also contact mines. So they would need to be relatively close to the surface. The Mk56 and Mk57 have magnetic fuses, so they could be moored at a greater depth.

My sandbox testing shows the OASIS and Mk104 sled as being effective against type Moored Mine [M08]. Now, please bear in mind that I haven't yet tested all of the mine hunting systems, so there may be others that also work here.

The SWIMS rig works for floating (surface) mines.

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Post #: 8

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 5:41:08 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathras1
The M08 moored mine in CMANO -- although it doesn't specifically state it -- is a contact mine. You would need to look in the DB to see this. So it would be under the water relatively close to the surface. I get the same results as you do with the AMNS rig and am waiting for a reply to my question as to whether this system should be effective against this type of mine.

The db entry for "Moored Mine" doesn't give many details, though does specify a 1 nm range, which implies a proximity fuse rather than contact.

When I try it out using paths that should not result in direct contact, they still detonate. This is for both surface vessels and submerged subs, so the trigger looks like it's based on a cylinder 1nm in radius.

I enclose an example of a ship and sub routed near mines; both will be destroyed.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 9

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 8:48:16 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

I took a look at the DB entries. Yes, the entry for the Generic Mine [Moored, Contact Fuze] does have a 1nm range for both surface and sub-surface vessels. This has got to be a DB error. Take a look at all the other moored mines that have contact fuses. The range is unspecified. If I can find the DB thread, I'll post a message.

Also, you should update you scenario to use the latest DB. I saw it was still looking at the 4.02 version. It possible could cause a problem.

Have fun.

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Post #: 10

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/8/2014 10:08:41 PM

guanotwozero

Posts: 651
Joined: 12/27/2013
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My installed db is up to date, but I was using a save from an earlier build. I've now upgraded the scenario against 4.08 using deep build, as it would take ages to play to the same place from restart.

Same result, though. Save included.

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Post #: 11

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/9/2014 3:46:22 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

Hi Guanotwozero,

You will get the same results until they fix the entry in the database for the Generic Mine [Moored, Contact Fuze]. I created an entry in the database thread for this.

I retested using candidate 500 and, as expected, got the same results. They're release note didn't mention any fix.

Maybe you should try one of the other moored mines with contact fuses.

I'll be retesting my stuff using later today or tomorrow.

Take care.

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Post #: 12

RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/9/2014 10:10:04 PM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zathras1

Here are my saves.

I really thought I was running 4.99, but my earlier test was run against 4.98. As a result, the defect I noticed where the rising mines were being detonated by helos at 12K feet is no longer valid. However, I notice that the AMNS system is not clearing the moored mines and no one spots the floating mines.

Save 1 is before all helicopters enter the first minefield (rising mines).

Save 2 is after exit. You can see that none of the rising mines detonated.

Save 3 is after Save 2 has run quite a while. You will see the reports of floating and rising mines being detonated, but none for the moored mine using the AMNS system.
Also, the Seahawk has been in the leftmost minefield (floating) and none show up with god's eye turned off. Also, no message.

Sorry about the screwup. Again, these saves were produced using 4.99.

Thanks for taking the time to test this thoroughly.

* There was a code flaw that prevented most detections on moored and floating mines, this has been resolved on Build 501 / RC4.

* On AMNS: There is a DB error on this loadoout, as the AMNS system is not present on it. Either the title is incorrect or the system has been omitted by mistake. I have notified the DB author and this will be resolved in a post-v1.03 update.

* Visual detections. You are correct and this has been long overdue. Implemented in Build 501. Be sure to read the release notes.

Thanks again.

< Message edited by Sunburn -- 3/10/2014 12:11:36 AM >

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RE: Mine clearing 4.99 candidate - 3/9/2014 11:58:30 PM

Zathras1

Posts: 43
Joined: 12/24/2013
Status: offline

quote:

Thanks for taking the time to test this thoroughly. * There was a code flaw that prevented most detections on moored and floating mines, this has been resolved on Build 501 / RC4. * On AMNS: There is a DB error on this loadoout, as the AMNS system is not present on it. Either the title is incorrect or the system has been omitted by mistake. I have notified the DB author and this will be resolved in a post-v1.03 update. * Visual detections. You are correct and this has been long overdue. Implemented in Build 501. Be sure to read the release notes. Thanks again.

And thank you for taking the time to check into my questions.

I've done some research on the AMNS and it appears it is designed to work with only bottom and moored mines. It's not supposed to work on the floating mines.

It would be nice to have visual identification of floating and (some?) moored mines. I guess the ones closed to the surface can be seen, but this depends on time of day, weather and sea transparency. Maybe too complicated to code.

Do you know if they'll be able to take a look at the defect I reported in the DB thread? It looks like one of the moored contact fuse mines has a range of 1 nm. It's taking out ships at about 900 yds.

I plan on doing more testing and I'll let you know.

I spent 42 years in application development, so I know what it is to deal with us "users" and our defect reports! Hope I don't bug you too much.

Again, thanks for all the hard work you guys do.

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 14