Inuil
Posts: 52
Joined: 2/28/2001
From: Alicante. España.
Status: offline
|
Hi SPWAW friends. I have a hot question to collect oppinions in the forum.
I think the APCR ammo numbers in USA Shermans and TD units in game are too bigers.
To ilustrate my question I´m going to put here a serie of articles about the use of APCR/HVAP ammo in armored forces during WWII.
---------------------------------------------
Brigadier General Isaac D. White,
Commanding General
Second Armored Division
U.S. Army
A.P.O. 252
20 March 1945
Supreme Commander
Supreme Headquarters
Allied Expeditionary Force
My dear General Eisenhower:
In this letter I am setting forth my personal convictions as to the quality of our tanks and certain other items of equipment in comparison with the German, as you requested in your letter of 18 March 1945.
I have enclosed a separate document giving a digest of the opinions of officers and enlisted men who have had much experience and in whom I have great confidence. I have also included a large number of the actual statements made by them. Allowing for the traditional enthusiasm displayed by the American soldier when he is given (or takes!) the opportunity to express himself in regard to any possible shortcomings in his rations, clothing and equipment, I think they are sincere, reasonably factual, indicate considerable thought and knowledge of the subject, and above all, they are most refreshing. I have not edited them in any way and I believe they are a true cross-section of opinion of the command.
I feel that many criticisms made by tank crews would not appear had we been equipped with a larger proportion of M4A3E8 tanks for Operation "Grenade." Only two or three tanks of this type actually saw combat. During this operation only twenty-nine percent of our medium tanks mounted 76-mm guns, and only four rounds of HVAP ammunition per 76-mm gun was available. Incidentally, rounds of this type expended in this operation have not been replaced. However, the 76-mm gun, even with HVAP ammunition, is not effective at the required ranges at which we must be able to effectively engage enemy armor.
THE ENTIRE ARTICLE WAS POSTED IN THIS DIRECTTION. VERY, VERY INTERESTING. http://www.merriam-press.com/m_240_x1.html
-----------------
ANOTHER.
Jeff Heidman
Member posted 10-10-2000 01:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tiger:
I agree but at the same time, you shouldn't expect to see much tungsten available in 1944.
-john
I agree totally. Prior to the last few months of the war, T should be very rare in anything other than AT units.
However, most (but not all) dedicated AT assets (TDs, AT guns) should have a couple of rounds, and it would not be unheard of for a Sherman here or there to have a round or two. As a rought guesstimate, I would say your typical AT asset should have 0-7 rounds witha median of 3, and most 76mm armed Shermans 0-3 rounds with a median of 0.
Not nearly as much as they currently have.
Tiger
Member posted 10-11-2000 02:27
-----------
I'll quote this again for the tungsten advocates:
"In August a few rounds of the new 76mm HVAP (APCR) ammunition was rushed to France and tests were conducted near Isigny against six captured Panthers. The tests showed that the new ammunition was extremely accurate and a great improvement over the old APC M62, but it could not penetrate the Panther's front plate at ranges over 300 yards. Production of the new ammunition was also limited to only 10,000 rounds per month which meant that it could only be used on an emergency basis."
from R.P. Hunnicutt's book "Sherman"
-john
------------
Paul Lakowski
Member posted 11-13-2000 06:53 PM
"The 90mm gun was credited with penetrating the Panther's front from 600 yards .But even this was disputed in a later test. The 703rd Tank Destroyer Battalion with M-36 Tank Destroyers firing in early december 1944 was only able to make penetration about half the time at ranges of 150-300 yards . In addition , the commander of the 703rd concluded that the 90mm was ineffective against the King Tigers frontal armor".
---------------
[pp 106-107 FAINT PRAISE Charles M Bailk.]
It also points out that supplies of HVAP ammo in the fall of 44 was limited to 2 rounds per month supply to all users, so having 3-4 per tank per engadgement sounds like a 'pipe dream'.
THIS ALL 3 OPPINIONS AND MANY MORE MUST BE SEEING IN THIS DIRECTION. http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/011471-2.html
ANOTHER.
This 76 mm gun had another advantage: it could use the special armor piercing ammunition, the Hypervelocity Armor Piercing (HVAP) rounds. These rounds used a superhard core to punch through enemy armor. The disadvantage of this type of type of ammunition: very expensive and extremely short in supply. Most supply was given to tank destroyers. http://www.xs4all.nl/~basvz/KINGT.HTML.
-------------------------------------------
Adding to this in the Osprey book number 6 "the Sherman medium tank" you can find in pages 14-15 the oppinion of Steve Zaloga about this question. He sayed the same... only 2-3 round for tank it´s so much.
In my personal oppinion the 10 to 16 APCR stoks in Shermans are very excessive... the normaly was 2-3 rounds, the most luckys 5 rounds. Not more.
In the case of AT units, no more than 6 rounds.
Sorry for this long post, but I think it was necesary, and for my bad english
:confused:
I hope you send me all the information you have and your oppinion. Thanks for all.
Pascual Navarro. :)
PD: I titled this post ¡¡¡ Tugsten for the love of good!!! , because I know very well the sensation to be in front of Tigers and Panters (like gamer) without a long ration of APCR. ¡Terrific!
_____________________________
"Un soldado, es el hombre que se interpone entre el enemigo y su familia"
"A soldier is a man between enemy and his family"
Greek Words 1500bc
Pascual Navarro.
|
Printable Version
¡¡¡tugsten for the love of good!!! - 
- 
- 
- 
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread