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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/4/2014 11:58:29 PM

joshuamnave

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The simple answer is that Brest Litovsk is not a supply source for Russian units. Unlike Bessarabia, Eastern Poland does not become part of the Russian homeland when it is annexed.

The more complicated answer is that Brest Litovsk is neither a primary nor a secondary supply source for Russian units. You can find a listing of both kinds of supply sources and how they interact on page 14 of the RAC. In general, primary supply sources are cities in an unconquered major countries 1939 borders (exceptions include Japanese controlled areas of the mainland which are not considered part of Japan, and Bessarabia after Soviet border rectification, which does become part of the Motherland). Secondary sources include HQ's (your own, and active allies) and capitals of minor conquered countries. Since Brest Litovsk is a Polish, not Russian city, it is not a supply source. Even if Russia conquers Poland, BL will not be a supply source.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 31

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/5/2014 6:46:55 AM

Joseignacio

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Brest is a polish city. URSS units don't get supply directly from polish cities (or any minor's except capitals), they need an HQ in range or a URSS city. Through moving them one hex backwards you may have got closer to USSR cities or HQs.

rkr, don't get annoyed with Orm, only those who have played WIF or are experienced MWIF players can know how complex are the rules of this game, you have multitude of these things to keep in mind. I guess we vetern WIF players don't mind to answer such questions, specially because through them you/we can uncover possible bugs, but you'll have a hard time if you try to guess the many many rules about everithing that there are in the game.

Edit: hadn't seen Zartacla post or I wouldn't have posted

.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 3/5/2014 10:03:12 AM >

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 32

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/5/2014 12:59:43 PM

Extraneous

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These are the rules effecting the units they are referring to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
19.5 The Nazi-Soviet pact
In all World in Flames scenarios that start after Jul/Aug 1939 and before Jul/Aug 1941, the USSR and Germany have a Nazi-Soviet pact in place that regulates their spheres of influence. They signed their pact on the 23rd August 1939 and Germany broke certain of its clauses on the 22nd of June 1941.

19.5.1 Eastern Poland
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered. You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern Poland.

Once you exercise those rights, the part of Poland to the east of the partition line becomes conquered by the Soviets. Move any Axis units there to the nearest Axis controlled hex they can stack in. Any Allied (except Soviet) units there are destroyed. They are removed from the game (internment) until Germany and the USSR are at war, at which point they may be added to the Commonwealth force pool if the Commonwealth player so desires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
Railway supply paths
A hex a railway supply path enters, by moving along a railway or road, does not count against the 4 hex limit. A hex it enters across a straits hexside also does not count against the limit, so long as the hexes on either side of the straits are railway hexes.

The 4 non-rail hexes can occur anywhere along the path. Although you will mostly use them to trace supply from an HQ to the railhead, they can be handy for re-routing around an enemy unit that�s blocking a vital rail link.

Perhaps they can explain why the rail hexes in Poland cannot be used to supply the units in Brest-Litovsk.

< Message edited by Extraneous -- 3/5/2014 2:00:32 PM >

_____________________________

University of Science Music and Culture (USMC) class of 71 and 72 ~ Extraneous (AKA Mziln)

(in reply to Joseignacio)

Post #: 33

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/6/2014 1:13:21 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Try using the F8 key. It brings up the supply sources and paths. You can click on the different sources to see which units they are supplying. Then you can click on a unit to see the path it takes to reach the supply source.

This falls into the category of "learning by seeing many examples".

It's one of my favorite ways to learn.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Extraneous)

Post #: 34

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/6/2014 9:39:28 PM

rkr1958

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Wow, thanks again for all the responses. I do appreciate everyone's patience in answering such novice questions! I have started / restarted the Barbarossa scenario four times now. My focus is on learning more and more of the relevant rules and getting a better feel for combat, movements and the associated phases. Though I'm flubbing up the games royally, I am thoroughly enjoying them and can tell that I have 100's to 1000's of hours of game play enjoyment in front of me. At least playing solo I don't feel guilty about making horribly stupid plays and then restarting the game. I'm definitely learning things that I shouldn't do.

I do have a question concerning of opinion (or feel) concerning tactical air strikes. One I know there's no definite answer to and one which is more opinion than fact. But; when is it better to ground strike for disorganization versus adding factors in support of a ground attack?

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/6/2014 10:41:07 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 35

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/6/2014 9:50:18 PM

Dabrion

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

These are the rules effecting the units they are referring to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
19.5 The Nazi-Soviet pact
In all World in Flames scenarios that start after Jul/Aug 1939 and before Jul/Aug 1941, the USSR and Germany have a Nazi-Soviet pact in place that regulates their spheres of influence. They signed their pact on the 23rd August 1939 and Germany broke certain of its clauses on the 22nd of June 1941.

19.5.1 Eastern Poland
The USSR can exercise its Nazi-Soviet Pact rights to occupy eastern Poland during any Allied land movement step. However, it can only exercise those rights if Poland has not been conquered. You exercise those rights by moving a land unit into any hex of eastern Poland.

Once you exercise those rights, the part of Poland to the east of the partition line becomes conquered by the Soviets. Move any Axis units there to the nearest Axis controlled hex they can stack in. Any Allied (except Soviet) units there are destroyed. They are removed from the game (internment) until Germany and the USSR are at war, at which point they may be added to the Commonwealth force pool if the Commonwealth player so desires.

quote:

ORIGINAL: WiFFE-RAW-7.0.pdf
Railway supply paths
A hex a railway supply path enters, by moving along a railway or road, does not count against the 4 hex limit. A hex it enters across a straits hexside also does not count against the limit, so long as the hexes on either side of the straits are railway hexes.

The 4 non-rail hexes can occur anywhere along the path. Although you will mostly use them to trace supply from an HQ to the railhead, they can be handy for re-routing around an enemy unit that�s blocking a vital rail link.

Perhaps they can explain why the rail hexes in Poland cannot be used to supply the units in Brest-Litovsk.

Because it is not a railway supply path. Railway supply paths are for 2ndS relaying, normal units always use a basic supply path.

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Extraneous)

Post #: 36

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/6/2014 10:57:42 PM

joshuamnave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

Wow, thanks again for all the responses. I do appreciate everyone's patience in answering such novice questions! I have started / restarted the Barbarossa scenario four times now. My focus is on learning more and more of the relevant rules and getting a better feel for combat, movements and the associated phases. Though I'm flubbing up the games royally, I am thoroughly enjoying them and can tell that I have 100's to 1000's of hours of game play enjoyment in front of me. At least playing solo I don't feel guilty about making horribly stupid plays and then restarting the game. I'm definitely learning things that I shouldn't do.

I do have a question concerning of opinion (or feel) concerning tactical air strikes. One I know there's no definite answer to and one which is more opinion than fact. But; when is it better to ground strike for disorganization versus adding factors in support of a ground attack?

Couple ways of looking at it. My answers assume you're using the 2d10 combat charts, but although the numbers may change, the tactics should be similar with the 1d10 charts.

Every unit that you flip in a ground strike will give you +2 on the die roll. Sometimes, using the air unit for combat support will actually give you a guarantee of +2 or better on a roll. For example, a plane with 3 tac factors ground striking a 3 factory infantry sitting by itself will give you a 30% chance of flipping it for +2, or a 100% chance of getting +2 on the die roll in ground support. This assumes that you don't have so much air sitting around that you're exceeding the max ground support numbers. As those numbers change, the value of ground strike v support varies accordingly. Would you rather have a 30% chance at +2 or a 100% chance of a +1? Sure, the long term numbers work out in favor of ground support, but what if you're only comfortable making the attack with the extra bonus? Then ground strike gets better. Ground strikes are also usually better against out of supply units, because disorganized OOS units defend with only 1 defense factor (3 if they are white print). And against stacks of units, ground strikes really take the upper hand. There, the ground support factors are less likely to be enough to boost your attack by even +1, but a ground strike can get you as much as +5!

Balance that against the fact that ground strikes count against your air limits, while ground support does not. Consider that ground strikes may draw out enemy fighters that will then not be available to intercept ground support later.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 37

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/7/2014 6:53:30 AM

paulderynck

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Every unit disorganized is potentially dead meat in a subsequent impulse. FREX when Barb starts, there are lots of Russian units that can be slaughtered immediately. But the ones you can't get good odds against should be ground struck so they can't get away. When their front collapses, those units will be surrounded, put OOS and disposed of. Of course you likely need a Super-combined impusle to really have an impact.

So sometimes it's not just about getting the +2 for the flip verses adding the ground support factors in the attack.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 3/7/2014 7:54:10 AM >

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Post #: 38

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/7/2014 11:13:37 PM

rkr1958

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I want to confirm if what I think I'm seeing is actually correct understanding of the rules on my part.

1. Do ground support "missions" count against the impulse's air limits? (no?).

2. Are bombers that fly ground support disorganized? (yes?).

3. Are bombers that fly an air mission that don't get cleared through disorganized?

4. Does this count against the impulse's air mission limits?

(in reply to paulderynck)

Post #: 39

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/7/2014 11:51:01 PM

Dabrion

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1. yes
2. yes
3. yes (only rebase missions let you stay face up)
4. yes (if this refers to the now disorganised bombers from 3.)

In general there is no discount for failed operations, you "pay" per attempt (which makes sense, since you have no hindsight until the mission is actually conducted).

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 40

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 12:36:28 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes (only rebase missions let you stay face up)
4. yes (if this refers to the now disorganised bombers from 3.)

In general there is no discount for failed operations, you "pay" per attempt (which makes sense, since you have no hindsight until the mission is actually conducted).

The answer to question #1 is No. Ground support missions do not count against an impulse's air activity limits.

I agree with the answers to the other 3 questions.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 41

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 1:39:54 AM

Dabrion

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Apologies, ground support is free of course! Ground strikes are missions (should read more carefully)

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 42

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 2:10:15 AM

rkr1958

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Thanks again! I'm having a blast playing the Barbarossa scenario. I'm also learning a lot too. In the May/June turn as the axis I blasted through the Soviet defenses. I used an offensive chit on the first impulse. I thought that this scenario was going to be a cakewalk for the axis. Boy was I wrong and probably due to mistakes I made during reorganization; especially during the July/August turn. I used my HQ units to reorganize air units that I used in the first impulse. The result was that my HQ couldn't move and my spearheads, some of which were disorganized got put out of supply. The Soviets who had several strong units screening Moscow between Gomel and Smolensk, and using the Pripet Marshes to the south and the terrain to the north to protect their flanks counterattacked and destroyed three strong German mech and infantry units. In the process they also overran two disorganized Stuka air units. I knew supply was important; but didn't realize how important supply through HQ units is when out of your home country. The screen cap is for Sep/Oct turn. The Soviets hold the initiative and the weather is rain. I don't see much movement in the lines happening between now and the end of this scenario 3 turns from. Well, except for what the Soviets can do during the '41 winter offensive.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/8/2014 3:11:39 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 2:38:25 AM

joshuamnave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion

1. yes
2. yes
3. yes (only rebase missions let you stay face up)
4. yes (if this refers to the now disorganised bombers from 3.)

In general there is no discount for failed operations, you "pay" per attempt (which makes sense, since you have no hindsight until the mission is actually conducted).

The answer to question #1 is No. Ground support missions do not count against an impulse's air activity limits.

I agree with the answers to the other 3 questions.

4 is only half right. Bombers that are aborted from ground strike missions still count against air action limits. Bombers that are aborted from ground support still don't count against air action limits. As Dabrion implied, whether it counts or not depends on the attempted action, not the actual result.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 44

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 1:09:19 PM

rkr1958

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The below screen cap was made during the axis ground strike subphase. Check out the Soviet Sverdlovsk 4-3 militia in Vitebsk and the German Ju 87B bomber. The 4-3 is within range but the game won't let me attack it.

Is this because the 4-3 (only unit in the hex) is already disorganized?

I wasn't looking to strike that target; but notice this when I was mousing over it checking for valid targets. If the answer to my question is yes, I do appreciate the game looking out for me and stopping me from making a stupid play (like ground striking a target already disorganized).

Attachment (1)

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 1:51:48 PM

markb50k

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Yes it won't let you strike where there is no result to be had. It's already face down

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 2:22:28 PM

rkr1958

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My first full scenario ended in a crushing Soviet victory. I learned some valuable lessons and gained significant insight into land combat and being on the offensive playing this intro scenario. Supply and organized HQ units that can move with your advancing troops are essential. And, forgetting to escort bombers during ground strike missions is a disaster. Now it's time to move onto the second intro scenario.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 2:33:57 PM

Orm

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Or you go back and create a new Barbarossa scenario from the beginning. Selecting optionals and place all the units.

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Post #: 48

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 3:52:11 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Or you go back and create a new Barbarossa scenario from the beginning. Selecting optionals and place all the units.

I was contemplating that very thing. I would like to get a feel for combat with 2d10 (versus the default 1d10). Also, I want to see if I can manage my HQs and supply better and see if I can break the Soviet defenses and at least establish the axis winter line east of the Pripet Marshes including being on the outskirts of Moscow and Leningrad.

On the other hand I really want to get a look at the naval part of the game through the Guadalcanal scenario. I guess I could do both by playing one scenario a while then loading the other and play it.

(in reply to Orm)

Post #: 49

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 5:27:59 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Or you go back and create a new Barbarossa scenario from the beginning. Selecting optionals and place all the units.

I was contemplating that very thing. I would like to get a feel for combat with 2d10 (versus the default 1d10). Also, I want to see if I can manage my HQs and supply better and see if I can break the Soviet defenses and at least establish the axis winter line east of the Pripet Marshes including being on the outskirts of Moscow and Leningrad.

On the other hand I really want to get a look at the naval part of the game through the Guadalcanal scenario. I guess I could do both by playing one scenario a while then loading the other and play it.

If you do go back to Barbarossa, you might try not spending your Offensive chit until the 2nd German Impulse. That way you can use all your HQs to reorganize units and then use the o-chit to reorganize your HQs at the start of an impulse.

There are many other times to use the O-chit in Barbarossa. Often holding off until the Germans reach the Dnieper is best - then they can use it for the extra oomph to break the river line.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 50

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/8/2014 10:55:05 PM

rkr1958

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Or you go back and create a new Barbarossa scenario from the beginning. Selecting optionals and place all the units.

I was contemplating that very thing. I would like to get a feel for combat with 2d10 (versus the default 1d10). Also, I want to see if I can manage my HQs and supply better and see if I can break the Soviet defenses and at least establish the axis winter line east of the Pripet Marshes including being on the outskirts of Moscow and Leningrad.

On the other hand I really want to get a look at the naval part of the game through the Guadalcanal scenario. I guess I could do both by playing one scenario a while then loading the other and play it.

If you do go back to Barbarossa, you might try not spending your Offensive chit until the 2nd German Impulse. That way you can use all your HQs to reorganize units and then use the o-chit to reorganize your HQs at the start of an impulse.

There are many other times to use the O-chit in Barbarossa. Often holding off until the Germans reach the Dnieper is best - then they can use it for the extra oomph to break the river line.

Thanks Steve. Now, I'm definitely going to have give the Barbarossa scenario another try right now.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 51

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/9/2014 3:30:04 AM

rkr1958

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How can I continue this game? The situation is that I can't deploy the reserve Sevastopol militia unit because Sevastopol already has two ground units stacked in it. The end phase button is disable so I can't advance the game. What do I do?

EDIT: NEVER MIND. It let me setup the unit adjacent to the city.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/9/2014 4:37:33 AM >

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Post #: 52

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/9/2014 11:37:50 PM

rkr1958

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There's only 1 unit in Novgorod and it's Finnish. When I try to rebase the Finnish air unit to that hex, or even to Viipuri in the Finnish borderlands, I keep getting, "Exceeds stacking limits (Air)." Is this message correct, or is it some other reason why I can't rebase the Finnish air unit there (or Viipuri)?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/10/2014 1:31:01 AM >

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Post #: 53

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/10/2014 12:38:14 AM

rkr1958

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A second crushing Soviet Victory. It seemed the axis were doing better and might win this time; but the Soviets trades ground and some units for time. That is, the time when the axis push ran out of steam. They counterattacked in Nov/Dec at a critical time and completely blunted the axis offensive power. After that, it was poor weather, including blizzard conditions, through the Jan/Feb turn. The axis offensive was really stopped in the late impulses of the Jul/Aug turn after attacks against Kharkov and Smolensk failed to clear the defenders of those cities. The two attacks were no sure thing (as is obvious); but the odds were moderately in the axis favor. A desperation attack on Smolensk in Sep/Oct impulse (fair weather) also failed.

Not surprisingly, my novice defensive play is much better than my novice offensive play.

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RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/10/2014 12:47:52 AM

joshuamnave

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

There's only 1 unit in Novgorod and it's Finnish. When I try to rebase the Finnish air unit to that hex, or even to Viipuri in the Finnish borderlands, I keep getting, "Exceeds stacking limits (Air)." Is this message correct, or is it some other reason why I can't rebase the Finnish air unit there (or Viipuri)?

The message is incorrect. I pointed this one out a few weeks back in the tech support forums. What it should say is that the maximum number of Finnish units have already left Finland.

There are a few cases where it is illegal to rebase an air unit to a target hex, but the game displays the wrong reason.

(in reply to rkr1958)

Post #: 55

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/13/2014 10:48:37 AM

rkr1958

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So now I thought I'd take a plunge into naval warfare and the Pacific. I've load the quick start setup for the Guadalcanal scenario, took a drive around the map and a look at the victory totals. Unless I'm missing something, I only see two objectives that are realistically in the reach of the Japanese (Pago Pago, American Samoa and Dutch Harbor, Aleutian Islands). Interestingly, the name of this scenario, Guadalcanal, is not one of the victory locations. My question is what would be a good Japanese strategy to follow and objectives to go for as a novice (first-time) player of WiF and this scenario?

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< Message edited by rkr1958 -- 3/13/2014 11:51:04 AM >

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Post #: 56

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/13/2014 1:34:32 PM

Joseignacio

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rkr1958

How can I continue this game? The situation is that I can't deploy the reserve Sevastopol militia unit because Sevastopol already has two ground units stacked in it. The end phase button is disable so I can't advance the game. What do I do?

EDIT: NEVER MIND. It let me setup the unit adjacent to the city.

Yes, you can have this (I think) option on. City Based Volunteers reinforcement off city. Or whatever the exact name is. But it does not need to have been selected, in that case you wouldn't be able.

If you are not able, the game should give you an option not to deploy this unit, for in case you cannot deploy in WIF (not speaking of the city not in you hands, of course, but be sorrunded, for example) it would be at the right pool pendant future deployment when possible. IIRW.

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Post #: 57

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/13/2014 6:28:20 PM

Extraneous

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dabrion
Because it is not a railway supply path. Railway supply paths are for 2nd Supply relaying, normal units always use a basic supply path.

In the "In Supply" graphic:

The 17th Garrison army and 2nd Guard Cavalry corps they are now 4 hexes from a primary supply source (Minsk) and now in supply.

The Timoshinko 5(2)2 headquarters provides secondary supply as far westward as the 40th Garrison army.

There must be a headquarters hidden under the "In Supply" graphic to provide secondary supply to the other units near Lvov, Poland.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 58

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/13/2014 9:08:32 PM

Dabrion

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Yes you are correct (although I believe you mean the 10th GARR). The "hidden HQ" is Certauti (in Bessarabia, which is RU city after claim), in the very same hex here the 10th GARR is sitting. This should clear the doubt.

You seemed to suggest that ordinary units use a railway supply path (tracing via discounted rail hexes).

_____________________________

�WiF is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.�
- Richard P. Feynman, 'WiF, Sex, and the Dual Slit Experiment'.

(in reply to Extraneous)

Post #: 59

RE: New to the game - Basic Questions - 3/13/2014 9:11:50 PM

paulderynck

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From: Canada
Status: offline

Yes the source is Cernauti which becomes equivalent to a Russian city once Bessarabia's been claimed. In MWiF that hex is part of Bessarabia, but older WiF maps didn't include it as part thereof.

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Paul

(in reply to Dabrion)

Post #: 60