Whipped to death?!?!

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Whipped to death?!?! - 3/18/2014 11:49:08 PM

sharkie

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/18/2014
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Hey guys, first up I wanted to express my enjoyment over the game. I saw the RPS review, tried out the demo & then stalked the forums for a day before buying.

Last night I installed & had my first game. In the 4th race my driver was heading up an inside lane & was whipped to death by an opposition driver. I was sitting there with my mouth open and a WTF expression.
Now I'm not condemning this game but I felt that was a little weak. Sure, there were probably instances in real life where drivers died from being whipped, falling off his chariot & being run over. If a drivers life is so easily snuffed out, why bother investing time & effort into him?? I dont want to use the old exit the game & start it again to avoid a death, that feels like cheating.

I would gladly accept that after being whipped 3 or 4 times the driver is injured for a week or two, or if whipped he falls off the chariot, lays stunned on the track before getting up & stumbling, slowly towards the outer wall. At least this alternative offers a chance for the driver to survive...I just believe the current death takes away any control I have in the game & it felt like cheating.
Since I'm new maybe there is something I'm not aware of or over looked so any suggestions would be appreciated.

And thanks again for a great & unique game.

Post #: 1

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 4:57:04 AM

76mm

Posts: 4688
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkie
I would gladly accept that after being whipped 3 or 4 times the driver is injured for a week or two, or if whipped he falls off the chariot, lays stunned on the track before getting up & stumbling, slowly towards the outer wall. At least this alternative offers a chance for the driver to survive...I just believe the current death takes away any control I have in the game & it felt like cheating.

First, you can basically do exactly what you want by playing a "normal" instead of "epic" campaign--it allows you to bring back dead aurigas.

I've completed many, many, races and have learned that it is fairly rare for an auriga to be killed outright by a lacerating attack, but it certainly happens. You need to learn to play defensively, and use "watch" when the other teams might be tempted to attack you.

The key is to break out of the pack, which of course is easier said than done.

(in reply to sharkie)

Post #: 2

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 9:11:47 AM

gerardo

Posts: 53
Joined: 3/12/2014
From: Italy
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Agreed, i have seen a driver fall from the chariot and die but never be killed by a lacerating attack. Must be a quite rare event. Maybe your enemy was 'skilled' at lacerating?

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Post #: 3

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 2:53:25 PM

stormbringer3

Posts: 875
Joined: 7/26/2007
From: Staunton, Va.
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Unfortunately, I've had more than one of my team lacerated to death. I've tried to achieve the same against the AI but have never done so.

(in reply to gerardo)

Post #: 4

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 3:10:39 PM

SteveD64

Posts: 570
Joined: 10/26/2006
From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
Status: offline

In 100 races I've been whipped to death once (my 10 win faction leader

). I've whipped to death one other driver.

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Post #: 5

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 5:07:59 PM

malthaussen

Posts: 112
Joined: 1/11/2006
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One of my guys was whipped to death in his second race. And I had scrupulously used "watch" for several turns previously, but the one time I try to get separation he was attacked and killed after four persistent whippings. Some of these aurigae are brutes!

-- Mal

(in reply to SteveD64)

Post #: 6

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 6:13:27 PM

SteveD64

Posts: 570
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From: Shaker Hts, Ohio, USA
Status: offline

I've seen AI Auiga's whip loose horses. Just for sport!

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Post #: 7

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 6:13:37 PM

Manticore8

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/12/2014
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Ahh yes, racing defensively. Another subtle nuance in the game that one should master asap. It's just as critical as racing offensively.

I've had many drivers lacerated to death and at one time in testing mentioned that it's a bit too efficient. I've since taken a more aggressive racing stance with my two "reserve" drivers. I try to carefully preserve and build one driver's career with the sole goal of that driver winning the game. I use my other drivers as assassins really, when my main driver is out hurt, one of these assassin drivers enters the next race, not so much to get first place victories, but mainly to hunt down and kill drivers that are immediately ahead of and behind my main driver in the Local standings. If these assassin drivers get wins great, that adds to the bank account, but I concentrate these drivers on eliminating my main driver's closest rivals. It adds a whole strategic element to the game that I like very much. So I'm in the chariot as my main driver during his races, (my tactical fun) and I'm in the grandstands barking orders to my assassin drivers for their races, (my strategic fun)

I'll say too that if my main driver has no chance of winning any money in his race, then I get carefully aggressive with him and will even brake and slow down to put a hurt on a rival that also has been damaged or hurt enough to take on. On occasion I've had my main driver get in a situation where maybe some of his horses have been killed, maybe some wheel damage, and there's no way to get a big win, so even if I have to slow down more to wait on a rival to catch up with me I will, and then we go at it! I had one race where a close rival in the lists and I, spent two complete laps at a dead crawl no less, ducking and dodging each other and hacking and slashing at one another horses and chariots till one of us goes down. It's a lot of satisfying fun to dance around each other at probably 10 miles per hour, whipping, lashing, and crashing into each other while the race continues around us.

(is there a way to use Wordwrap when composing these messages??)

< Message edited by Manticore8 -- 3/19/2014 7:34:15 PM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 8:45:05 PM

Veldarr

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Joined: 1/9/2014
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Interesting.

My last 3 races, I've had 2 drivers killed by whip attacks. Had 0 killed by whip attacks in dozens of races prior to the 1.10 version.

(in reply to stormbringer3)

Post #: 9

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/19/2014 8:50:43 PM

NefariousKoel

Posts: 2930
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From: Murderous Missouri Scum
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quote:

ORIGINAL: gerardo

Agreed, i have seen a driver fall from the chariot and die but never be killed by a lacerating attack. Must be a quite rare event. Maybe your enemy was 'skilled' at lacerating?

I've seen numerous aurigas get killed by a single turn's Lacerate attack.

It happens when they're running neck-and-neck with another and that guy's Lacerate attack keeps firing the whole turn, hitting him multiple times. It is enough to take some aurigas from full to zero health in one turn.

I've seen this happen in v1.0 numerous times.

It's fine that they can be killed this way but going from full to zero health in one bad turn may be a bit drastic.

< Message edited by NefariousKoel -- 3/19/2014 9:52:23 PM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/20/2014 12:28:24 AM

sharkie

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

It's fine that they can be killed this way but going from full to zero health in one bad turn may be a bit drastic.

I disagree that driver is killed this way simple because if you cop a lash from a whip I doubt whether many drivers would 1) Sit there & take another two lashes. 2) Continue traveling at the same speed.
I do agree that its a bit drastic.
As mentioned in my OP, offer a chance to survive. Have the driver fall off the chariot, let him lay stunned for a bit before sluggishly making his way to the outer walls.
Anyway, it hasnt happened since & hope its a rarity.

(in reply to NefariousKoel)

Post #: 11

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/20/2014 3:43:34 AM

LaStarza61

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Joined: 3/6/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sharkie

quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

It's fine that they can be killed this way but going from full to zero health in one bad turn may be a bit drastic.

I disagree that driver is killed this way simple because if you cop a lash from a whip I doubt whether many drivers would 1) Sit there & take another two lashes. 2) Continue traveling at the same speed.
I do agree that its a bit drastic.
As mentioned in my OP, offer a chance to survive. Have the driver fall off the chariot, let him lay stunned for a bit before sluggishly making his way to the outer walls.
Anyway, it hasnt happened since & hope its a rarity.

It IS quite a rarity... I've yet to have it happen to any of my drivers after many, many races. I actually think it's cool that it can happen, as long as it remains a rarity.

(in reply to sharkie)

Post #: 12

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/20/2014 10:19:59 PM

sharkie

Posts: 7
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline

I'm actually seeing it more & more between the AI racers.
Been busy over the past few days & real life is interfering with my gaming...

But I got a quick chance to run two races last night & in both racing I watched an AI driver die from lashing.

(in reply to LaStarza61)

Post #: 13

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/20/2014 11:44:57 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
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Maybe there should be different types of whip..some doing more damage (a fighting whip), some lighter so you can whip faster (a racing whip) etc etc.

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Post #: 14

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/23/2014 8:40:27 PM

Zap

Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
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It has not been mentioned about whipping. (I had a bullwhip when I was a teenager )Played with it in the yard. I was able to do 3 types of whipping.

1.snapping the whip. stinging with a welt
2. Heavy lash. Intense pain and Cut the skin.
3. lighter whip(which would cause the whip to wrap tightly around a body part.
This last one might represent a driver being killed. If you can imagine the whip wrapping around the head or
neck of the intended driver. Then the whipping driver pull back quickly. Pulling the other driver off his chariot when he looses balance
trying to remove the offenders whip.

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RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/23/2014 9:03:19 PM

Temple

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Joined: 7/31/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe there should be different types of whip..some doing more damage (a fighting whip), some lighter so you can whip faster (a racing whip) etc etc.

I like the way it is now. If you use your whip for lacerating you run the risk of losing it (I've had that happen a couple of times), which gives a nice check and balance, otherwise you could lacerate without risk.

(in reply to wodin)

Post #: 16

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/24/2014 10:39:28 PM

jimwinsor

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Laceration death in this game is not a rarity at all in my experience. They are fairly commonplace, and easily the leading cause of death to my drivers.

Whips have certain advantages in this game, which makes them quite deadly. If the first whip attack stuns the driver (not uncommon) and the opposing chariots are moving at the same relative speed (not uncommon) then the target auriga will be churned into hamburger in a single turn.

The interesting thing about the "stun" result is that it will cancel the target's plotted attack. So, in an extreme example situation where a heavy chariot is in position to ram a light chariot's horses, and the light chariot plots to whip (which since it is slightly behind, will hit the driver) who has the advantage? 9 times out of 10 in my experience, it will be the light charioteer with the whip over the heavy charioteer with the scythe blades, with a stun most likely cancelling the horse ram entirely.

This makes driver whipping an excellent defensive move, as well as an offensive one.

One more observation: In simultaneous whip and ram attacks like the example above, whips always seem to go first. I think I've observed the reason why: Ram attacks don't seem to occur until the attacking chariot is at a particularly small spot next to the target chariot or team. Whips, conversely, have a far greater range of attack. So generally (but not always) whips will attack first. And if they can stun on the first lash, well, it is game over for the now defenseless driver if they maintain position throughout the turn.

Moral of this story is, always always move far away from or Watch whenever a driver whip attack is possible (ie, an opponent is next to you at your 5 o' clock or 7 o' clock). Don't try to ram his horses, you will probably lose that exchange.

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Post #: 17

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/24/2014 10:43:31 PM

jimwinsor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Temple

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Maybe there should be different types of whip..some doing more damage (a fighting whip), some lighter so you can whip faster (a racing whip) etc etc.

I like the way it is now. If you use your whip for lacerating you run the risk of losing it (I've had that happen a couple of times), which gives a nice check and balance, otherwise you could lacerate without risk.

Losing the whip is a good check on this very powerful attack, and I wouldn't mind seeing it also have a chance of loss if your target is in Watch mode for the attack.

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Post #: 18

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/25/2014 2:15:47 AM

76mm

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jimwinsor
I wouldn't mind seeing it also have a chance of loss if your target is in Watch mode for the attack.

Good idea...

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Post #: 19

RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 3/25/2014 9:45:24 AM

Niessuh

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About mortal lacerations, I understand that a few seconds of lashes are not enough to kill a man. Maybe the bloodstain is an exaggerated effect. The idea is that the result is severe enough so the auriga have to leave the competition, It do not really mean instant death, but an unconscious auriga on a runaway chariot is certainly dangerous...

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(in reply to 76mm)

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RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 4/3/2014 3:57:47 AM

Snee

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It's not that rare. Almost all my drivers with 5 or more wins, die from either getting whipped or having stuff chucked from the stands when I have been pinned there since starting from the outside. I'm now on my 5th 20+ win aug in the epic campaign, and I always guard when a two star whipper is in range.

I think manticore is correct in the assassin theory. I try to win too many races, I should get some 1 bolt two hammer chariots from the minors and just hammer the global leaders above me with my 3rd and 4th drivers.

My campaign is at almost 300 races, so clearly not doing so isn't really an option.

(in reply to Niessuh)

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RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 4/3/2014 10:23:06 AM

nats

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From: York
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I like the way in this game (and it might be my imagination here) that certain faction leaders are notoriously vicious. In my present campaign the pink faction leader will ram and whip everyone who gets next to him. And I have seen (again this could be my imagination here!) drivers ramming me if I have tried ramming them before, they seem to remember what you do to them in past races. Similarly can I get anywhere near my faction leader to kill him - no I cant because he always seems to keep well away from me since the last three failed attempts to ram and whip him.

Its probably all just imaginary like I say but it does provide a really nice rpg atmosphere to the game having these faction leaders and other drivers who seem to have their own ways of racing. I wonder if there are hidden variables for the drivers like aggression?

< Message edited by nats -- 4/3/2014 11:23:52 AM >

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RE: Whipped to death?!?! - 4/3/2014 9:00:40 PM

Manticore8

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Joined: 3/12/2014
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Interesting discussion here. I don't know if there are varied individual stats for AI drivers but yes it sure seems like there are sometimes.

I've witnessed cold blooded murderers on the track who look to me to be more interested in maiming anyone around them than winning. I've picked on drivers who I could swear remember my foul deeds against them and come after me with a little more vigor. And the vindictiveness some have! There's a beat up two-horse team crawling around the track with zero chance of winning anything, and this mean spirited driver will still go out of his way as best as he can to block me, whip me, crash into me. So I wonder if there really is something going on under the hood of this game that makes me smile and curse at the same time when these situations happen. And if there really is no code dictating the various "personalities" of top drivers especially, then I still applaud the game for making me wonder if there is and for the fun illusion of it all.

(in reply to nats)

Post #: 23