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Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 3:31:03 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:57:27 PM >
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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:06:24 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		You'll have to be more specific than that. Give an example of this happening, please.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:16:05 PM   
Symon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013
I notice that some units simply disappear and reappear in new locations.
Is there a list of units that move on their own across the map and when they will move?

[ed] I responded, but since learned that the OP is a piece of utter trash. I deleted my response. I eccourage people to put Bunny3013 on the green button. JWE

< Message edited by Symon -- 3/22/2014 5:37:34 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:27:51 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:57:45 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:41:47 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
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From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline 		Then play another game. You clearly don't belong here, so why don't YOU just move on. And don't let the door hit you in the butt when you leave.

Ciao. JWE

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:46:50 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:58:02 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 4:49:40 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013
I notice that some units simply disappear and reappear in new locations.
Is there a list of units that move on their own across the map and when they will move?

[ed] I responded, but since learned that the OP is a piece of utter trash. I deleted my response. I eccourage people to put Bunny3013 on the green button. JWE



quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Then play another game. You clearly don't belong here, so why don't YOU just move on. And don't let the door hit you in the butt when you leave.

Ciao. JWE


Symon, do us all a favour and take a deep breath before clicking "Post reply".

This is far from the first time where you've decided jump into a thread and immolate yourself .

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 5:14:43 PM   
Symon


Posts: 1928
Joined: 11/24/2012
From: De Eye-lands, Mon
Status: offline 		Every now and then, the game developers just have to chime in. Will we give good info, yes. Are we polite, no. You don't like what the developers think, then just push the green button and go about your business and don't bother us. any further.

Ciao. JWE

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 5:23:34 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:58:26 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 5:35:27 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Every now and then, the game developers just have to chime in. Will we give good info, yes. Are we polite, no. You don't like what the developers think, then just push the green button and go about your business and don't bother us. any further.

Ciao. JWE


The game is the collective property of the developers (well, it's GG's, but nobody here cares about copyright law). That I do not contest.

Last time I checked, however, the forum said Matrix Games at the top, not Henderson Designs.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 9:01:49 PM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		Posssible real answers could be.

Unit withdraws and reappears with new TOE in a new location, very rare.

AI controlled units using different rules.

Fragments turn into parent units.

LCU airlifted across the map.

Should any of these not be correct a bit more info would help.


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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 9:38:49 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:58:47 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 11:48:51 PM   
jakla1027

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

JeffK,

There are some US Dive bomber squadrons that show up in brisbane around Jan 42. There are units like this all accross the map on both sides of the fight that simply transfer on their own and reappear in different places undamaged and fully operational.

Not Unit withdraws and reappears with new TOE in a new location, very rare.

Not Fragments that turn into parent units.

Not LCU airlifted across the map.

It is (I guess) AI controlled units using different rules. These "rules" are not established by the players but seem to be inherantly integrated into the game. Problem arises trying to figure out the who, what, when, where, how and why of it all.


Yes I too don't understand why those air units just appear in Oz land in early 42. Considering as well when almost every other air unit or LCU in the game has to be shipped manually to wherever we want that unit to go. Thus for the units that show up in OZ land early on in game, why wasn't their a convoy set up at the game beginning that was at sea in route to OZ carrying these units? A bunch of American boy & equipment just didn't appear out of nowhere in OZ in 1942, they had to have been shipped there somehow/sometime after Dec. 7 1941

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/22/2014 11:58:44 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Every now and then, the game developers just have to chime in. Will we give good info, yes. Are we polite, no. You don't like what the developers think, then just push the green button and go about your business and don't bother us. any further.

Ciao. JWE


The game is the collective property of the developers (well, it's GG's, but nobody here cares about copyright law). That I do not contest.

Last time I checked, however, the forum said Matrix Games at the top, not Henderson Designs.


Henderson Field Designs developed the game. Matrix published it. Big difference.

And AE is not property of Grigsby. The original WitP is his. This is a new IP.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 12:28:16 AM   
Keifer


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From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		There are 3 A-24 squadrons that are reinforcements that arrive in Brisbane in Late Dec 41. I've never seen them move out of Brisbane on their own.

Load a new game on Dec 7 and look in the reinforcement list for USA DB.

A handful of US Units appear as reinforcements outside the USA.

Of course some US air units were formed overseas (the incarnation of VMF-214 that Boyington commanded is one I cna think of)

Not sure how the scenario designers figured out which ones.


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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 12:30:04 AM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		That's historical documentation. Simple research.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 1:07:27 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jakla1027

Yes I too don't understand why those air units just appear in Oz land in early 42. Considering as well when almost every other air unit or LCU in the game has to be shipped manually to wherever we want that unit to go. Thus for the units that show up in OZ land early on in game, why wasn't their a convoy set up at the game beginning that was at sea in route to OZ carrying these units? A bunch of American boy & equipment just didn't appear out of nowhere in OZ in 1942, they had to have been shipped there somehow/sometime after Dec. 7 1941


Yes, they were shipped there. I assume these are the A-24s on the Pensacola convoy, which is in the game. I can't speak to the intent of the scenario designer in not having them in the convoy. but the meigs does have part of the 147th loaded too, perhaps the meigs that carried the A-24s also carried that unit and the game engine didn't allow them to be both loaded so some compromise had to be made. or there might be some other reason.

Edit: Nope, 147th was apparently on Holbrook with the 148th. Holbrook can't carry both in-game, so the 147th had to go somewhere, although not necessarily Meigs. So I don't have a ready back-up guess, other than "just because that's where they historically went and the scenario designer wanted that to happen."


quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

It is (I guess) AI controlled units using different rules. These "rules" are not established by the players but seem to be inherantly integrated into the game. Problem arises trying to figure out the who, what, when, where, how and why of it all.


this has nothing to do with the AI using different rules, the same units will show up regardless of PBEM or AI, it's part of the scenario setup. And there's no mystery, one can see the units in the reinforcement track, or if one wants open the scenario editor and see them.


< Message edited by erstad -- 3/23/2014 2:54:42 AM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 1:25:39 AM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:59:05 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 1:48:23 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

Great, but what about all the other units that get the same sudden appearence treatment? There are Japanese units as well as other alles that get treated this way. Can't anyone address this by identifying them and giving us an idea of who and when? Why in the blaizes are these units not covered in the rules?


You'd have to be more specific about given units for anyone to speculate on an answer. But I'm not sure I understand what you mean by not covered by the rules. If they magically transport, sure, but if they are designed in the scenario then they are fully controlled by the normal rules. A scenario designer can choose to have units appear anywhere they want if it fits the logic of what they want to represent.

I would not be surprised if some of the units that might be considered to "appear", especially Japanese, might be intended to help the AI. If someone wants to make sure that a particular historical unit (like a CD unit for a particular base) shows up in that base, the scenario designer might choose to have it appear there rather than in Tokyo and let the AI ship it wherever it wants. And for a static unit (no movement allowed) that would be the only way to get it there.




< Message edited by erstad -- 3/23/2014 2:49:33 AM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:02:36 AM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:59:20 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:17:58 AM   
Quixote


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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

rstad,

Your post would indicate you've never played the game before. You honestly have no idea what we are referring to when we say there are units just showing up on map for both sides even after I give an example?



Erstad has probably played more turns in PBEM than 95% of the people on the forums - I'm fairly sure he has some idea what he's talking about. As to the one example you gave, do you mean the dive bombers that arrive at Brisbane shown in the screenshot below? The ones you could open your reinforcement queue up and look at weeks ahead of time to know they were coming, as has been suggested to you? The ones that you could open the editor and know were coming as Erstad suggested to you?

I understand that you aren't trying to be a troll (and if you were, you'd have to be the most patient troll around to have opened your account 6 years ago and just now have decided to give almost everyone trying to help you a hard time), but you still seem to be doing your best to come across as one. On the last two issues you've raised, you've been given good answers multiple times. If you don't understand them, say so, and ask for clarification. Your current style isn't going to get you anywhere fast, though.




Attachment (1)

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:21:31 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gunny3013

rstad,

Your post would indicate you've never played the game before. You honestly have no idea what we are referring to when we say there are units just showing up on map for both sides even after I give an example?



I didn't dispute the example. The scenario design has the A-24's show up in brisbane. this is all in accordance with the rules and the units are clearly shown in the reinforcement track. I didn't open the scenario in the editor, but have no doubt they show up there too. You then asked

quote:


Great, but what about all the other units that get the same sudden appearence treatment?


But didn't cite the other units. I would suspect they are also programmed by the scenario design to appear in a given location. Either the reinforcement track or a review with the scenario editor would confirm that for a given unit.

Based on the one example you gave, there is no basis for the assessment that something outside the rules is occurring. There are many, many undocumented items under the hood and there are cases where the manual is wrong or outdated - but this isn't one of them.

quote:

Your post would indicate you've never played the game before.


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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:41:59 AM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:59:39 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:50:56 AM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 9:59:53 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 3:30:45 AM   
erstad

 

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quote:

I'm thinking because the Manual didn't cover them (as oddities) there is a problem. BTW, are these oddities addressed in the Manual?


No. The manual has the rules, but does not describe the scenarios.

Documentation for the scenarios is in the scenario notes (which is a very high level description). Details on the OOB for the scenarios, which is what your question relates to, can be found by loading the scenario (for example, in head-to-head mode) and using the in game menus, or by loading the scenario in the scenario editor.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 4:21:47 AM   
JeffroK


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Status: offline 		gunny,

You aren't harsh, just a complete arsehole, I now know that Symon must have posted from experience.

A number of time units were created from excess reinforcements into combat units due to operational reasons, this is how LCU & Air Units appear "from nowhere"

Stop reading Commando comics and try books from time to time.

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 4:51:20 AM   
aspqrz02

 

Posts: 1024
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Status: offline 		Some of the units that just 'appear' in the game in various places are, as others have said and/or hinted at, actually part of the in game historical convoy reinforcement system for the allies. They usually appear in places like South Africa or the Gulf, but, like the A-24 units you specifically mention, do occasionally appear elsewhere.

This is the designers making it unneccessary for the the Allied Players to produce things and ship them to the front, for some very well historically documented things. I am not one of the designers and don't fully understand why some units appear in (say) San Fran or LA and then need to be manually shipped to ... wherever ... while other units appear in situ, at their historical destination ... I assume it is a designer decision to provide a good mix of historicity and free will.

(I have not played enough *different* campaigns to be sure if some of these 'in situ' arrivals are only partly scripted - that is, they *always* arrive in, say, South Africa, on more or less the same date, regardless of whether the historical basis for their arrival is actually fulfilled on map or not ... as long as, in this case, South Africa is still allied controlled, of course).

The above ONLY applies to my experience with the Allied side ... I cannot comment with any experience on the Japanese side, but would assume that for those Japanese units that may seem to 'appear' in situ, it is the last thing I mentioned for the Allies but applied to the Japanese (that is, the designers have mandated certain historical events/arrivals ... for their own reasons).

I suspect that the above may not be of specific help, but hope it does provide *some* assistance.

(There are some problems with the assumptions made by the designers, I believe ... and this may be one of them ... one of them that has always perplexed me is the rule on invading Australia [and, to a lesser extent, New Zealand and India] ... historically, at the period of maximum danger the Australian Army was, IIRC, around 14 divisions strong ... far stronger, at least as well supplied if not always fully equipped, than any possible Japanese force that could be landed, let alone supplied ... which, as far as I am aware, isn't a problem in play vs the AI, but can be in PBEM ... I assume the designers had their reasons for doing things the way they did, and this whole issue is another example, I guess)

Phil

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 2:57:15 PM   
gunny3013

 

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< Message edited by gunny3013 -- 3/23/2014 10:00:44 PM >

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RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 4:45:48 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon

Every now and then, the game developers just have to chime in. Will we give good info, yes. Are we polite, no. You don't like what the developers think, then just push the green button and go about your business and don't bother us. any further.

Ciao. JWE


The game is the collective property of the developers (well, it's GG's, but nobody here cares about copyright law). That I do not contest.

Last time I checked, however, the forum said Matrix Games at the top, not Henderson Designs.


Henderson Field Designs developed the game. Matrix published it. Big difference.

And AE is not property of Grigsby. The original WitP is his. This is a new IP.


Irrelevent, considering this is Matrix's forum and not Henderson's. Matrix kindly allows some (thankfully not all!) of the devs to act as admins.

While it might hurt Symon's ego, the truth is that he's considered equal with the rest of us on this forum, and subjected to the same rules and terms as the rest of us. If he was actually treated as such, I very much doubt that he'd still have a accessible account on here...

It's not a new IP either. It's a refinement of an existing IP. Proof of that lies in the fact that the devs refuse to reveal any of the games underlying code for "legal reasons", as well as the fact that they added two words in the title and a whole bunch of code under the hood.


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 29
RE: Some units move on their own... - 3/23/2014 4:46:57 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Yeah, sorry about that, but I was a dev too. I know better than you.

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