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Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames

 
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Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 3:02:30 PM   
just_one_more_turn

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: offline 		This may be a typical wargamer post. I have many older board wargames and usually I will set one up, realize I cannot leave it overnight due to space limitations and it all goes back into the box after a turn or two of whichever game I have setup. I have been playing some titles on Vassal such as Russian Campaign to get a feel for the rules.

Rather than using vassal which has no AI (and I really do not want to game multiplayer) Art of War III has an AI, am I able to somewhat reproduce some of the older AH/Victory Games titles through some existing modules to play them out on AOW3? Russian Campaign, 1776, Anzio, Across Five Aprils, The Civil War, etc?

Thanks for your time, Dale
Post #: 1
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 4:04:23 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4778
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: just_one_more_turn

This may be a typical wargamer post. I have many older board wargames and usually I will set one up, realize I cannot leave it overnight due to space limitations and it all goes back into the box after a turn or two of whichever game I have setup. I have been playing some titles on Vassal such as Russian Campaign to get a feel for the rules.

Rather than using vassal which has no AI (and I really do not want to game multiplayer) Art of War III has an AI, am I able to somewhat reproduce some of the older AH/Victory Games titles through some existing modules to play them out on AOW3? Russian Campaign, 1776, Anzio, Across Five Aprils, The Civil War, etc?

Thanks for your time, Dale

There are plenty AH and other boardgame conversions available. Have a look at D21 from my mate Steve (sPzAbt653) -> http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2594404

There's also a thread with all the scenarios being created for TOAW III -> http://www.matrixgames.com/community/scenarios.asp

Klink, Oberst

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(in reply to just_one_more_turn)
Post #: 2
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 5:12:39 PM   
Catch21

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dublin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: just_one_more_turn

This may be a typical wargamer post. I have many older board wargames and usually I will set one up, realize I cannot leave it overnight due to space limitations and it all goes back into the box after a turn or two of whichever game I have setup. I have been playing some titles on Vassal such as Russian Campaign to get a feel for the rules.

Rather than using vassal which has no AI (and I really do not want to game multiplayer) Art of War III has an AI, am I able to somewhat reproduce some of the older AH/Victory Games titles through some existing modules to play them out on AOW3? Russian Campaign, 1776, Anzio, Across Five Aprils, The Civil War, etc?

Thanks for your time, Dale
I'm a long time 'grognard', my 1st game was the original Squad Leader in 77. I owned a goodly # of WWII and ACW (largely) titles from AH, SPI, West End and others (maybe 50 in total). I still have my original copy of Anzio, probably my favorite for its map, rules and step reduction system (and counters). I used to own GDW's Europa also so I know all about space and setup time ;-).

In uni and with work I dropped wargaming for lack of time, but returned periodically. I bought the original TOAW in 99 in a bin sale, looked at it briefly, decided it was too complex for the time I had available, and shelved it. Then took it out a year later, and once I mastered its quirks and intricacies, felt like a kid in a candy store.

For here in one package and for its focus period (1900-1956 and though its been extended out at both ends I still only play pre-Atomic Age) was pretty much any AH WWII title- there are a # of Italian campaign scenarios, numerous on Normandy and the Eastern Front, even Europe Aflame for 3R fans.

If this describes you, buy it @$24 or on sale at MG or on ebay, though make sure you get a playable version not an add-on. There's a demo here or pm me if that doesn't work and I may have a demo file somewhere.

The only (huge) downside is development stalled some years ago with a version that contained flaws that made the game in many instances unplayable, but I'm sure someone will chime in to reassure you that everything is now on track and OK and I hope that is indeed the case. Until someone definitively tells me all is well and it's safe to return, I've moved on elsewhere to World of Tanks and other more supported titles, though I do look in here from time to time for news of my old favorite.

In its day it was literally a game changer, and I hope it makes a comeback after years through what seems to me a legal, licensing and copyright twilight zone.

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to just_one_more_turn)
Post #: 3
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 5:28:40 PM   
Catch21

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dublin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: just_one_more_turn

Rather than using vassal which has no AI (and I really do not want to game multiplayer) Art of War III has an AI, am I able to somewhat reproduce some of the older AH/Victory Games titles through some existing modules to play them out on AOW3? Russian Campaign, 1776, Anzio, Across Five Aprils, The Civil War, etc?
Just to this latter part:

1) All versions of TOAW have an AI, and I don't think the latest is any major change on the original. It's OK, it has an adjustable handicap, it will even beat you at first, but once you understand the game mechanics and how the AI operates you will run rings around it. Then you'll want to 'graduate' to PBEM, which (though one is initially and naturally apprehensive and nervous) is simple and far better than the AI (given opponent and reasonable skill matching of course, though you could argue you learn most getting beaten).
2) I can't think of many AH titles that don't have (semi)-equivalent scenarios in TOAW (WWII that is), in fact a number are deliberately 'ported' from various AH, SPI et al titles. If by VG you mean their game on Vietnam then see here.
3) ex-20th Century, designers have made scenarios for the ACW, even the Napoleonic Wars++, and sometimes with their own equipment DBs, though I couldn't comment since I never played them.

Any Qs, PM me- always happy to chat with an old boardgamer.

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to just_one_more_turn)
Post #: 4
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 7:48:37 PM   
ogar

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline 		Responding to the OP,
I am another old boardgamer, and I bought TOAW when it was on sale because I'd read some good reviews and followed this forum for a while.  I figured it would provide some fun for a while; that was almost 5 years ago.  I very much recommend GS's suggestions.

Continuing with the "faint damns" tone - I think TOAW is best suited for games/scenarios in the 1890 - 1980 range, but that's just my opinion.  I find Curt's Call to Arms (AWI) scenario as well done as the WIA (AGEOD) production; in some areas, it's better.  But, most importantly this aint boardgaming; the engine's strengths/weaknesses make this different from Vassal or face-to-face gaming.

I thought I was a pretty good boardgamer.  My first year or so with TOAW was filled with unlearning the wrong habits and learning what the game expected.  I'm somebody who _has_ to make every mistake in the book, plus ! and I did.  I found asking questions here was very helpful, and pleasant.  We know there are dumb questions - I've asked some of them - but no one here ever treated me as a dumb questioner (although, they might have thought that).

As for the "AI" - it really is not one.  It's a set of programmed actions for the computer player - hence, Programmed Opponent (PO).  Some scenarios do not need a lot of programming with options and responses and contra-responses.  Most do, however, and then it is up to the designer to make the PO work as best it can.  So, your mileage will vary as you try different scenarios - depends on when it was recently revised, on who did it, and on the basic situation it is trying to represent.  Like GS wrote,  PBEM is a lot more creative.  Still, there are many scenarios available with a good-to-excellent PO.

Hope you decide to try TOAW - and I hope you like it.

@GS
Nice to see you found your way to the old barn.

(in reply to Catch21)
Post #: 5
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 8:36:51 PM   
just_one_more_turn

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 11/17/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks, these responses were really helpful. I will look into this.
I don't think it is just me but I have noticed a semi-resurgence in wargaming. I am in Maine and in May there is a miniatures convention and they are having a room of wargames as well. At other regular Eurogame conventions I have seen some GMT titles appear as well, so I am very encouraged and this has sparked my interest in getting back into the hobby and integrating it on the pc.

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 6
RE: Art of War + Avalon Hill Wargames - 3/24/2014 9:35:52 PM   
Catch21

 

Posts: 511
Joined: 4/13/2006
From: Dublin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ogar
I thought I was a pretty good boardgamer. My first year or so with TOAW was filled with unlearning the wrong habits and learning what the game expected.
Me too. The hardest, and in the end ironically the easiest/best, thing to do was to ditch a lot of old housekeeping habits, particularly the CRT, which the system does for you.

In TOAW you need to 'unlearn' old odds techniques, like trying to get that extra 1 attack factor in to make it a 3-1 attack instead of a 2-1, since the system works on decimal odds as opposed to a paper table, so it's quite happy calculating a 2.9-1 attack and returning an immediate result (and adjusting the board for all the consequences) whereas in the old days this would have been impossible overhead. Eventually you develop a 'gut feel' for what will work odds wise, and have more time to focus on S&T.

Likewise with turn end, supply/combat (and terrain effects on), morale etc..., you (eventually) come to understand the underlying principles and work with them- not for them. So you're less a slave to dice and tables and that proves (also eventually) to be a revolutionary relief, not to mention the real estate you save in not having to lay out maps for- say- GDW's Europa on your garage floor.


< Message edited by General Staff -- 3/24/2014 10:38:48 PM >

_____________________________

Tactics are based on Weapons... Strategy on Movement... and Movement on Supply.
(J. F. C. Fuller 1878-1966)

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 7
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