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Durability - 3/23/2014 2:07:45 PM   
Zigurat666


Posts: 374
Joined: 9/26/2008
Status: offline 		Can anyone comment on how durability of aircraft relate to game turns? I cant really find a definition for it. Does that mean it can take more hits in combat before being shot down? or better survivability on long range missions? Would you prefer aircraft in the same category with higher speed/maneuver or durability?

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 2:29:53 PM   
crsutton


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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Well, there is no ideal package. Durability is pretty much what you said. The ability to take damage and survive. On paper the Tojo looks to be a better aircraft than the P40k, and in head to head combat is better. But I have noticed that while watching the replay that even with the smallest amount of damage a tojo almost always break off and get removed from the action. However, Allied fighters with higher durability, (and armor) will sometimes take damage and not break off but remain in the fight. In a big battle over the long term this can have an effect as more Allied planes are around for more rounds of combat and the lower durability Japanese air units get whittled down leading to eventual Allied tactical wins. And, as for the ultimate test watch zeros trying to shoot down B17s.

Opinions vary but I personally rate aircraft assets in this order.

1. speed
2. firepower
3. durability and armor
4. maneuver

Japanese planes that are faster and more maneuverable have a good edge over Allied planes (tojo comes to mind) but Allied planes eventually get faster and with superior firepower and durability, that seems to trump maneuver in my eyes.

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 2:53:58 PM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
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Status: offline 		Damn it CR! He's the enemy! I do agree with your assessment of assets. Go O's!

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 3:56:45 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, there is no ideal package. Durability is pretty much what you said. The ability to take damage and survive. On paper the Tojo looks to be a better aircraft than the P40k, and in head to head combat is better. But I have noticed that while watching the replay that even with the smallest amount of damage a tojo almost always break off and get removed from the action. However, Allied fighters with higher durability, (and armor) will sometimes take damage and not break off but remain in the fight. In a big battle over the long term this can have an effect as more Allied planes are around for more rounds of combat and the lower durability Japanese air units get whittled down leading to eventual Allied tactical wins. And, as for the ultimate test watch zeros trying to shoot down B17s.

Opinions vary but I personally rate aircraft assets in this order.

1. speed
2. firepower
3. durability and armor
4. maneuver

Japanese planes that are faster and more maneuverable have a good edge over Allied planes (tojo comes to mind) but Allied planes eventually get faster and with superior firepower and durability, that seems to trump maneuver in my eyes.

Agreed.

DUR is what keeps the IJ A/C from strafing ... my losses are generally just too high to support. Whereas the allies get quite a few fighters with DUR >33 and can effectively strafe.

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 5:14:33 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
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From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I've played both sides and must admit that I see many good allied pilots survive attacks that would have killed the pilot of a Japanese aircraft. Just one bad day and your IJ ace dies while pilot fatality for the allied (US mostly) is lower.....

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 5:22:32 PM   
obvert


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From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		+1 to all of the above

The durability of the various A6M versions is a great example of how the upgrades help. Most comments seem to be about speed and firepower, but durability also results in fewer ops losses in normal non-combat missions and better staying power in combat.

This is not only relevant to fighters, but to strike planes. It is one reason why some later 2E bombers make great kamis and get through late war flak more easily than their 1E counterparts. (Pax won't agree with me, but this is my experience).

Also if you look at some late war kami types like the Tsurugi, their durability is extremely low, so yes they are good planes in that role, but not as likely to make it to target as a Judy or a Grace.

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/23/2014 6:33:42 PM >

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 6:04:57 PM   
Gaspote


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Status: offline 		I think durability help when getting bomb on the ground too.

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 6:34:27 PM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I think durability help when getting bomb on the ground too.


No.

Alfred

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Post #: 8
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 7:19:26 PM   
dorjun driver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I think durability help when getting bomb on the ground too.


No.

Alfred


Alfred, stop being so sesquipedal.

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Post #: 9
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 7:22:20 PM   
zuluhour


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From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I like concise.

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 7:44:55 PM   
KenchiSulla


Posts: 2948
Joined: 10/22/2008
From: the Netherlands
Status: offline 		I don't

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Post #: 11
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 8:25:57 PM   
Gaspote


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Status: offline 		I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.

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RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 8:37:51 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dorjun driver


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I think durability help when getting bomb on the ground too.


No.

Alfred


Alfred, stop being so sesquipedal.


dorjun driver - It pains me to admit that I had to look "sesquipedal" up in the dictionary...<sigh>

Mac

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Post #: 13
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 9:34:29 PM   
Symon


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From: De Eye-lands, Mon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan
quote:

ORIGINAL: dorjun driver
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote
I think durability help whn getting bomb on the ground too.

No.
Alfred

Alfred, stop being so sesquipedal.

dorjun driver - It pains me to admit that I had to look "sesquipedal" up in the dictionary...<sigh>
Mac

I love big words. I n fact I just got to use garguantuan in a sentence responding to an email. How good is that? Woof !!

Sesquipedalian. Nice big words..Lots of polysylabic stuff. Woof ! Alfred, you is da man. Ciao. JWE

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Post #: 14
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 9:40:27 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan


quote:

ORIGINAL: dorjun driver


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I think durability help when getting bomb on the ground too.


No.

Alfred


Alfred, stop being so sesquipedal.


dorjun driver - It pains me to admit that I had to look "sesquipedal" up in the dictionary...<sigh>

Mac


So did I.

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Post #: 15
RE: Durability - 3/23/2014 9:43:06 PM   
Itdepends

 

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Status: offline 		Note that durability also appears to have a large impact on how long it takes to repair an aircraft since some changes were made in one of the betas. I noticed a large increase in downtime on 4E's as the allies.

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Post #: 16
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 2:56:12 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
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Status: offline 		I impressed my wife once by correctly spelling hobbledehoy at a spelling bee and then knowing the definition. This is from a guy who regularly spells thier wrong....


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Post #: 17
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 9:07:43 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


And giving wrong answers, without caring about accuracy or utility is respectful. Back where I come from that would be viewed as treating the reader as a mug who can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge and if they are rich and gullible enough, the Empire State Building too.

"No" is a succinct answer which quickly discloses the truth without disclosing a value judgement.

Alfred

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Post #: 18
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 12:14:26 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


And giving wrong answers, without caring about accuracy or utility is respectful. Back where I come from that would be viewed as treating the reader as a mug who can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge and if they are rich and gullible enough, the Empire State Building too.

"No" is a succinct answer which quickly discloses the truth without disclosing a value judgement.

Alfred


Yes.

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Post #: 19
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 5:24:25 PM   
Amoral

 

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/28/2010
Status: offline 		One other place that durability comes into play is in converting Japanese aircraft factories.

When you change factories from one aircraft type to another the new factory will be damaged. How badly damaged depends on how close the durability of the two plane types is.

At the start of the game if you change your Sonia (dur=28) factory to Val (dur=28) it will take less damage than if you converted it to Sally (dur=40).


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Post #: 20
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 5:32:45 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11302
Joined: 2/24/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


And giving wrong answers, without caring about accuracy or utility is respectful. Back where I come from that would be viewed as treating the reader as a mug who can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge and if they are rich and gullible enough, the Empire State Building too.

"No" is a succinct answer which quickly discloses the truth without disclosing a value judgement.

Alfred


Yes.


True dat.

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Post #: 21
RE: Durability - 3/24/2014 5:53:59 PM   
Gaspote


Posts: 303
Joined: 6/30/2013
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


And giving wrong answers, without caring about accuracy or utility is respectful. Back where I come from that would be viewed as treating the reader as a mug who can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge and if they are rich and gullible enough, the Empire State Building too.

"No" is a succinct answer which quickly discloses the truth without disclosing a value judgement.

Alfred


"I think" means it's not absolutely sure. I think of this because I noticed B17 are really hard to destroyed on the ground but that's probably because of the low number.

I respect your opinion but I disagree, not taking the time to write a sentence just show how you badly consider your interlocutor.




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Post #: 22
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 3:46:46 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


And giving wrong answers, without caring about accuracy or utility is respectful. Back where I come from that would be viewed as treating the reader as a mug who can be sold the Brooklyn Bridge and if they are rich and gullible enough, the Empire State Building too.

"No" is a succinct answer which quickly discloses the truth without disclosing a value judgement.

Alfred


Yes.


True dat.

+1

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Post #: 23
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:23:52 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Alfred is a student of Hemingway. Or he has very low durability. I can beat him though.

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Post #: 24
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:24:01 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		.

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Post #: 25
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:27:22 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Hemingway liked to drop unnecessary words. He wrote a little known novel about a Chinese revolutionary. It was titled "Sun also Rises".

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Post #: 26
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:28:38 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
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From: St. Louis
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I impressed my wife once by correctly spelling hobbledehoy at a spelling bee and then knowing the definition. This is from a guy who regularly spells thier wrong....




You start with they, replace the y with an i and add r.

Unless you spell thye wrong.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 3/25/2014 7:29:30 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:36:15 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Here's how to correctly spell friend. You start with fried (how you feel after playing WitP-AE for eight hours with a friend), then take the n from "end" and put it into the end (end is what you should tell your friend after eight hours) of fried. Hope that helps.

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Post #: 28
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:46:36 PM   
geofflambert


Posts: 14863
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline 		Whether you are a Yank or a Brit, you spell prize (as in grand prize) prize, but the only way the Brit gets a prize is when they pry it out of the hands of someone whose friendship they don't prise. Surprized?

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Post #: 29
RE: Durability - 3/25/2014 6:48:25 PM   
frank1970


Posts: 1678
Joined: 9/1/2000
From: Bayern
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspote

I don't even consider just No as an answer. That's just disrespectful for me.


Hm
1. No is a very clear answer and you were much better off to respect a no as a no!
2. Alfred is THE man about WITPAE. If he tells you "No", he means "No" and therefore the question quoted ist answered absolutely correct!

Are you a female you have to get long and elaborate answeres? A man can live with a clear "No"!

edited as requested by alien life form!

< Message edited by Frank -- 3/25/2014 8:10:07 PM >

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