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Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:14:41 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline 		My PBEM opponents seem making fun of me. When I seriously hurt them (that happens really seldom) they seem minimize the matter. I mean, if I would be from the opposite end I would cry a couple of day, I wouldn’t go to my job and I’d probably read all the forum from the scratch trying to figure out what I’m missing or doing wrong. But my opponents seem very relaxed, at the very best they say “OK, nice move, now we can start to play seriously?”. So the question is: this is AE, not the old Diplomacy from AH… but it seems to me that everyone try to get an edge by all the means. To what extent you use communications to deceive "psycologically" your opponents?

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Post #: 1
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:26:54 PM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		Speaking only for myself when I get thumped and it's happens plenty in this game I congratulate my opponent. You have to carry on as the war is long and filled with bumps. I play for the enjoyment, win lose or draw.

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Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to adsoul64)
Post #: 2
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:41:41 PM   
pws1225

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 8/9/2010
From: Tate's Hell, Florida
Status: offline 		If it makes you feel better, Ale, I soiled myself watching the replay of your bombardment of Miri. I just didn't want you to know.

(in reply to adsoul64)
Post #: 3
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:44:40 PM   
Wirraway_Ace


Posts: 1400
Joined: 10/8/2007
From: Austin / Brisbane
Status: offline 		I have played both types: the mental gamers and the gentlemen. Both are fun. I don't have any particular skill in the mental game via email communication, so I don't try to influence my opponent's decisions that way.

I have never played any of the actual mental health providers out there on the forum. We have at least two, both who are psychiatrists I believe.

(in reply to tocaff)
Post #: 4
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:46:55 PM   
adsoul64


Posts: 277
Joined: 1/23/2012
From: Milan Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pws1225

If it makes you feel better, Ale, I soiled myself watching the replay of your bombardment of Miri. I just didn't want you to know.


Paul, you're not one of the opponents I'm talking about. If for no other reason than I've never seriously hurted you

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Post #: 5
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 9:47:36 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 7472
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah, never let 'em see you cry. I would just chalk it up to gamesmanship and not worry about it.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Wirraway_Ace)
Post #: 6
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 10:13:52 PM   
czert2

 

Posts: 508
Joined: 2/10/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

My PBEM opponents seem making fun of me. When I seriously hurt them (that happens really seldom) they seem minimize the matter. I mean, if I would be from the opposite end I would cry a couple of day, I wouldn’t go to my job and I’d probably read all the forum from the scratch trying to figure out what I’m missing or doing wrong. But my opponents seem very relaxed, at the very best they say “OK, nice move, now we can start to play seriously?”. So the question is: this is AE, not the old Diplomacy from AH… but it seems to me that everyone try to get an edge by all the means. To what extent you use communications to deceive "psycologically" your opponents?

Just two words : hakuna matata :)

(in reply to adsoul64)
Post #: 7
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 10:45:55 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: czert2


quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

My PBEM opponents seem making fun of me. When I seriously hurt them (that happens really seldom) they seem minimize the matter. I mean, if I would be from the opposite end I would cry a couple of day, I wouldn’t go to my job and I’d probably read all the forum from the scratch trying to figure out what I’m missing or doing wrong. But my opponents seem very relaxed, at the very best they say “OK, nice move, now we can start to play seriously?”. So the question is: this is AE, not the old Diplomacy from AH… but it seems to me that everyone try to get an edge by all the means. To what extent you use communications to deceive "psycologically" your opponents?

Just two words : hakuna matata :)
warspite1

What a wonderful phrase!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to czert2)
Post #: 8
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 10:59:14 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

To what extent you use communications to deceive "psycologically" your opponents?


A great deal.


There's quite a few tricks that are often pulled to mess with your opponents head. The old "Good move, but it didn't do much" is pretty well-established.

It just depends on wither you'd be willing to outright lie to them in an e-mail. I'll refrain from saying more; not going to give away my secrets.

(in reply to adsoul64)
Post #: 9
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 11:02:50 PM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		All is fair in love and war. Then again, when my opponent does a good move, which happens all the time, I do congratulate him/her.

That doesn't mean I inform them of every capital ship sunk, of course.

"Truth in war is so precious that it must be accompanied by a bodyguard of lies." Winston Churchill.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

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Post #: 10
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 11:27:26 PM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline 		It boils down to your philosophy in the game. Me I regard my opponents as doing me a favour providing me with endless hours of challenge and sneakiness. They have also become friends and seriously have helped, whether they know it or not, through some not so great times over the years.

My own philosophy is my emails to them are about what's happening in life, I try to restrict myself to comments about the game so they are pretty inconsequential, or else responding to a genuine concern they bring up. Otherwise I just hand the move back...if you want smoke and mirrors then use the units to provide that, in the actual war they didn't exchange emails...... or carrier pigeons or whatever

Roger

_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

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Post #: 11
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/25/2014 11:58:53 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I have gone both ways in this. My opponents get taunted and heckled with some occasional misinformation thrown in but I also express positives when they pull something over on me. When Dan landed in Sumatra I congratulated him on the bold move, cried some, and then planned for his ultimate destruction. On the other side, I truly treasure getting to know my opponents and their lives. Have made some serious friends through this game and treasure that.


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
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Post #: 12
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 1:52:18 AM   
wneumann


Posts: 3768
Joined: 11/1/2005
From: just beyond the outskirts of Margaritaville
Status: offline 		A five-year long poker game...

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Post #: 13
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 2:49:01 AM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		If there was not some personality involved in your opponents it would pretty dull. I guess that is what the AI is for. I have only dealt with or played real gentlemen on here…fortunately their sense of humour is usually as twisted as mine.

I also note that given the international flavour here there will be some cultural and language issues from time to time…..North Americans sense of humour is often very different than Europeans and our slang is 50% of our language.

(in reply to wneumann)
Post #: 14
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 2:55:01 AM   
Feltan


Posts: 1160
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wneumann

A five-year long poker game...


+1

You make friends playing poker.

That doesn't change the game -- bluffing and bluster and smack talk are part of the game.

If I lost six carriers in an afternoon, my opponent wouldn't see me sweat. If he lost six carriers in an afternoon, he'd get selfies of me drinking a congratulatory toast to myself.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to wneumann)
Post #: 15
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 6:08:09 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adsoul64

To what extent you use communications to deceive "psycologically" your opponents?


To a certain extent psychological 'warfare' is part of a PBEM. This simply happens, as there will always certain events which lead to short exchange via email, but being totally honest, or saying nothing, contains the danger of breaching FOW.

But usually I try to restrain the psychological/intel component to the game itself, it is easily possible to wage psychological warfare by using the game engine.

An unprovoked and purposeful attempt to mislead or deceive an opponent outside of the game engine is, IMHO, just an attempt to compensate poor play.

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Post #: 16
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 6:24:10 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6685
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


... An unprovoked and purposeful attempt to mislead or deceive an opponent outside of the game engine is, IMHO, just an attempt to compensate poor play.


Nemo would have disagreed strongly with this statement.

Alfred

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 17
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 7:49:20 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron


... An unprovoked and purposeful attempt to mislead or deceive an opponent outside of the game engine is, IMHO, just an attempt to compensate poor play.


Nemo would have disagreed strongly with this statement.

Alfred


Thats true Alfred, and he does not fall into the compensation category of players obviously. This was certainly influenced by his profession, IIRC he called it (part of) the meta game, but it was one of the few aspects were I never agreed with his POV.

I stand corrected with regards to the second part of my statement you quoted. It does not neccessarily mean compensation for poor play. Its just an attempt to enhance the player performance with means I personally find neither useful nor simpatico.

The above does not include the usual bragging and tauning, this is a must for every gentlemens´ game.

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Post #: 18
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 9:09:31 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		As far as I know, only Nemo (psychiatrist) and I are true mental health professionals. I have a Master's degree in "Community Agency Counseling" so I'm a counselor/therapist vs a psychologist. Current, I'm a mobile crisis counselor for children.

Like others have said, there is some 'psych warfare' done in the email exchanges. I would expect no less from my opponent.

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Post #: 19
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 3:06:32 PM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

As far as I know, only Nemo (psychiatrist) and I are true mental health professionals...



I'll join that crowd soon, hopefully.

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Post #: 20
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 3:32:53 PM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

in the actual war they didn't exchange emails...... or carrier pigeons or whatever

But they did listen to each other's radio broadcasts and read each other's press, obtained through neutral countries, of course.

_____________________________

Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to mind_messing)
Post #: 21
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 4:06:46 PM   
offenseman


Posts: 768
Joined: 2/24/2007
From: Sheridan Wyoming, USA
Status: offline 		I enjoy sending congrats to my opponents when they have done well. Of course sometimes they do something that was brilliant and you cannot say anything about it because of OPSEC. I never trash talk as I cannot stand the lack of humility that entails but to each their own.

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Sometimes things said in Nitwit sound very different in English.

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Post #: 22
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 4:14:53 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Not that I have played many, but those that brag most about victories tend to be the same ones who bail after a heavy defeat.

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Post #: 23
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 7:26:20 PM   
RogerJNeilson


Posts: 1277
Joined: 4/12/2012
From: Bedlington, Northumberland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

quote:

in the actual war they didn't exchange emails...... or carrier pigeons or whatever

But they did listen to each other's radio broadcasts and read each other's press, obtained through neutral countries, of course.

With respect 'eavesdropping' on media written and released for a known home audience is not quite the same as a direct communication from SHQ to SHQ...... This did not happen.

Each to their own, just not my style.

Roger



_____________________________

An unplanned dynasty: Roger Neilson, Roger Neilson 11, Roger Neilson 3 previous posts 898+1515 + 1126 = 3539.....Finally completed my game which started the day WITP:AE was released

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Post #: 24
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/26/2014 8:38:08 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4845
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Nemo would have disagreed strongly with this statement.

Alfred


Nemo would have had me drinking from a baby bottle and sucking my thumb in a matter of months...if that long.

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Post #: 25
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/27/2014 1:13:39 AM   
mind_messing

 

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Nemo would have disagreed strongly with this statement.

Alfred


Nemo would have had me drinking from a baby bottle and sucking my thumb in a matter of months...if that long.


Nemo was before my time here, but it seems to me his biggest trick was his reputation. He was an excellent player, but he wasn't some sort of superhuman.

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 3/27/2014 2:14:05 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/27/2014 5:29:26 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

Nemo was before my time here, but it seems to me his biggest trick was his reputation.


Amen.

Half the rep of some people is their forced feeding of their psychobabble to their opponent. As if the email connection (Skype / whatever) is their birthright to harass their competition with their verbose rumblings. I've heard some downright unkind characterizations of players here by some of these people over the years, wrapped in thinly veiled attack speeches and diatribes.

Oftentimes, these people are skilled manipulators of the AE engine and fair to good players. No more than that.

There have been some allegations from time to time that their reputation may perhaps (perhaps) be due to deriving "intelligence" incognito from time to time as well.

So, OP, don't fret. If you think your opponent is using the communication modality of your choosing against you, discontinue it. Or just ignore their incessant ramblings. It's easy enough to do, I can assure you. Let them rail against the silence, pitch their fit into the nothingness, cogitate emptiness. You DO NOT HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. Return the turn, "Have a nice day", nothing more.

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 3/27/2014 6:31:52 AM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/27/2014 6:28:37 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So, OP, don't fret. If you think your opponent is using the communication modality of your choosing against you, discontinue it. Or just ignore their incessant ramblings. It's easy enough to do, I can assure you. Let them rail against the silence, pitch their fit into the nothingness, cogitate emptiness. You DO NOT HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. Return the turn, "Have a nice day", nothing more.



Is not that other side of the same coin?

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"Only the Dead Have Seen the End of War"

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Post #: 28
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/27/2014 6:36:14 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Nemo would have disagreed strongly with this statement.

Alfred


Nemo would have had me drinking from a baby bottle and sucking my thumb in a matter of months...if that long.


Nemo was before my time here, but it seems to me his biggest trick was his reputation. He was an excellent player, but he wasn't some sort of superhuman.



Right.

Nemo was/is(?) an excellent player with an in deep understanding of strategy, a lot of patience, and a talent for finding optimal configurations from a number of options.

But his greatest feat was to create an aura of invincibility which intimidated many opponents. It was part of his strategy.
.

_____________________________


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Post #: 29
RE: Are you psycologists? - 3/27/2014 1:11:37 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: koniu


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

So, OP, don't fret. If you think your opponent is using the communication modality of your choosing against you, discontinue it. Or just ignore their incessant ramblings. It's easy enough to do, I can assure you. Let them rail against the silence, pitch their fit into the nothingness, cogitate emptiness. You DO NOT HAVE TO PARTICIPATE. Return the turn, "Have a nice day", nothing more.



Is not that other side of the same coin?


Eh? I don't understand your (counter)point fully. But if you're suggesting what I think you're suggesting, the answer to your question is 'no'. One approach enables an opponent's manipulation. The other disengages from the exchange. Players that prey on this approach have insisted on their opponent's engagement and participation, as they should. Why give up the psychic warfare if you think you reap rewards from the 'metagame'? The 'street cred' that wafts from your opponent's submissive urination is apparently desirous to some.

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