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Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 5:39:15 PM

linrom

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Joined: 2/20/2002
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Today in my game is 12/21/1941, that's two weeks following the initial strike on Pearl Harbor.

The reports that I got so far is that my efforts to cripple US ability to fight in the Pacific were less than spectacular: my pilots sunk one(1) xAKL.

Is this a BIG JOKE on the players? At least they could have made it some YO tug boat or PT. Maybe all the aerial torpedoes were made in China? How is it possible?

Post #: 1

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 5:51:05 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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From: Toronto and Lima
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Well, don't forget those 5 midget submarines too... they surely went down, didn't they?

you need to look at the actual Dec. 7th strike report, by looking at how many ships got torpedoed or heavily damaged, you can assess, with some degree of certainty which ones would be gone

And AFAIK, the report is random, there is no guarantee you will get a clear picture after 2 weeks

(in reply to linrom)

Post #: 2

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 5:56:46 PM

Lokasenna

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One way to tell if you sunk any of the BBs at Pearl is to check to see if any float planes were destroyed on the ground. I believe you should be looking for any Seagulls destroyed on the ground, especially on December 8. Those will mark any sunk battleships.

But the PH strike is more than just sinking ships. It's about inflicting damage - to airframes that must be repaired or replaced, and to ships that must sit in the yards for months.

(in reply to linrom)

Post #: 3

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 6:19:14 PM

linrom

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Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 4

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 6:19:38 PM

witpqs

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As far as the sunk ships list goes, I believe it was said a while back (or maybe even in the manual?) that there could be a delay of something like 6 months before it was accurate. But in practice (because maybe there were code changes) I have seen numerous examples of ships being acknowledged as sunk well over a year after the event. At least in the range of 14 months. I don't know what the true upper limit is.

Allies' ship losses do seem to be acknowledged much sooner than Japan's ship losses. But you still might have several months to wait.

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RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 6:22:39 PM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

Several of those might have sunk.

But - remember that in real life there were 6 BB sunk, and 4 of those were raised and fought after repairs. In the game when a ship is sunk it is sunk forever. So when a Pearl Harbor BB is so severely damaged that it takes the better part of a year or even longer to repair and upgrade, that is the equivalent of one of the 'raised' BBs in real life.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 3/30/2014 7:23:37 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 6:46:45 PM

jmalter

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hi linrom,

this game is big on 'Fog of War' - reported combat results are often inaccurate.

results of the initial IJN strike on Pearl Harbor can vary wildly, due to random combat-result 'dice-rolls'.

Recon flights targeting an enemy base can give you an idea of its damage-level, but must be repeated continuously. The IJN can fly long-range Mavis/Emily sorties over Pearl, or use short-range sub-launched planes. But they'll only give you an idea of damage to the base, they won't give info about damage to individual ships.

As your game progresses, you might receive info about your enemy's 'admitted losses', this intel will likely lag the combat-action by several months.

It's not a big joke, it's a combination of randomized combat-results & randomized combat-reports. But this is the best info available to you - lacking follow-up recon, it's likely that your PH strike failed miserably against the USN BB fleet. But review your 07Dec41 results against USN aircraft, did you mess w/ their aircraft, especially their Catalina Nav-Search planes? Did your strikes cause extensive damage to Pearl's shipyard-repair facilities?

Or did you just hit once & run away, w/o making max use of your CVs' available mission capability to inflict max damage? KB must travel quite far before it can reach a base where it can refuel/rearm. If you don't use 80% of its mission ability to give the hurt to the USN on 07Dec41, you might as well stay home.

(in reply to linrom)

Post #: 7

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 7:01:15 PM

Lokasenna

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Arizona, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia are out for at least 2 years, given the number of bomb hits + torpedoes.

You didn't sink any outright, but you might have sunk one or two from damage on December 7. If you didn't, they just have to repair...for years. And suck up the repair points at the forwardmost USN shipyard in the process.

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Post #: 8

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 7:23:47 PM

jmalter

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reading your combat-report, IMO your PH strike did really well. Multiple torp hits against BBs will really mung them up - overloading the PH shipyard's ability to make repairs. Many of these damaged BBs will have to spend months repairing system-damage at Pearl, before then can even hope to sail for the USA west-coast shipyards to repair their extensive flotation-damage.

Pearl's shipyard is inadequate to cope w/ the level of damage you've inflicted to these BBs. Deploy subs west of PH to shoot at these guys as they leave PH for higher-capacity shipyards.

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Post #: 9

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 7:28:33 PM

btd64

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I once sunk the Akagi 5 times before the intel report showed the aircraft as lost, Then I never saw it again.
FOG.

Cheers

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RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 7:39:00 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

Nobody has mentioned Fires. Fires probably got 1-3 BBs here.

If you torpedo a ship in a hex with a big shipyard, and it doesn't sink, it can be instantly "saved" by sticking it in the yard. Even with 98 Float damage. (Happened to me with Warspite in one of my games.) BUT, if it is on fire as well it cannot go in the yard until the fires are 100% out. It sits there burning, in the port hex, all the while with fire destroying Systems (read: pumps). If the fires are not put out before System damage goes past where it can handle the flooding, the ship sinks in the harbor. There's nothing you can do to increase the port's ability to handle fires. Bigger ports are better, and there's some indication naval support might influence the dice roll, but on a one-turn or first-turn basis the port is the port you've got.

"Heavy fires, heavy damage" is bad news for an old USN BB. But take heart. That same message for any IJN ship is usually a death sentence due to bad damage control.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/30/2014 8:40:23 PM >

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Post #: 11

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 8:47:42 PM

linrom

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Lok,

I think you are right. I took a look at downed planes list and my opponent shows that so far he lost:

Kinfisher carried by US BBs 4 but due to operational losses
Seagul carried by US Cls 2 lost on ground but this is because of SS sinking

So I don't think that I sank any BBs at Pearl.

This is a big opportunity loss, about 1,000pts which is going to be very hard to make up.

I replayed the initial move many times because I wanted to adjust how Japanese planes approach PH in my own scenario so they would achieve more historical results especially when scoring points shooting up planes on the ground, but with 75% less FLAK losses.

In each case I would get results within days indicating that some BBs were sunk, but this time in DaBigBabes PBEM game I got nada. Even the xALK sunk at Pearl might have been due to sub activity at a much later date.

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Post #: 12

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 8:51:52 PM

linrom

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Allied aircraft losses

SBD-1 Dauntless: 28 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 7 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 25 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 118 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 10 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 27 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 8 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 15 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 6 destroyed on ground
C-33: 4 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 5 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 56 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 8 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 38 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 5 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 14 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 5 damaged
SNJ-3 Texan: 1 damaged

What happens with all the damaged planes? Do they just get repaired?

< Message edited by linrom -- 3/30/2014 9:52:42 PM >

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RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 9:25:44 PM

msieving1

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In my experience, when you see "heavy fires, heavy damage" in the combat
report, the ship almost certainly sank. When it says, "on fire, heavy
damage" the ship probably sank. If not, for a BB it's going to be out
of action for a year or more. You probably have 2-4 BBs sunk here.

If you're playing against the AI, you can find out pretty easily by turning
off Fog of War. Or you can just start the game in head to head mode and
take a look at the other side. That way you'll find out about damage as
well as ships sunk. If you're playing PBEM, you'll have to ask your opponent,
maybe he'll tell you.

-Mark

(in reply to linrom)

Post #: 14

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 9:43:47 PM

obvert

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That is a very good PH strike. If they're not sunk outright, then many will be later. I'd say you get 2 sunk the next day and 2 more from pumps failing trying to get them back to the mainland. The ones with 4+ TT hits and Arizona. The others I'd put out for around 1.5-2 years since so many were so badly damaged. Some of the bombs may be 800kg as well, increasing the serious damage for many of them.

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Post #: 15

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 10:33:52 PM

dr.hal

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From: Covington LA via Montreal!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Allied aircraft losses

SBD-1 Dauntless: 28 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 7 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 25 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 118 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 10 destroyed on ground
B-17D Fortress: 27 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 8 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 15 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 6 destroyed on ground
C-33: 4 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 5 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 56 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 8 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 38 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 5 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 14 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 5 damaged
SNJ-3 Texan: 1 damaged

What happens with all the damaged planes? Do they just get repaired?

In my experience the reports of damaged and destroyed planes is usually WAY off, sometimes so much so that there are many more damaged planes in the report than were actually in the hex. So take the above with a grain of salt. But as for your question, yes they will be repaired eventually, but the time very much depends upon the other damaged the based suffered. As for sinking ships with float planes, yes a good trick is to count float planes lost "on the ground" in the "Intelligence Report" tab. Remember BBs at Pearl have Kingfishers while the CAs and Cls have Seagulls... So you can tell which ship type went under. BBs carry two A/C and the CAs and newer CLs carry 4.

< Message edited by dr.hal -- 3/30/2014 11:34:50 PM >

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RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 11:32:13 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1

In my experience, when you see "heavy fires, heavy damage" in the combat
report, the ship almost certainly sank. When it says, "on fire, heavy
damage" the ship probably sank. If not, for a BB it's going to be out
of action for a year or more. You probably have 2-4 BBs sunk here.

If you're playing against the AI, you can find out pretty easily by turning
off Fog of War. Or you can just start the game in head to head mode and
take a look at the other side. That way you'll find out about damage as
well as ships sunk. If you're playing PBEM, you'll have to ask your opponent,
maybe he'll tell you.

-Mark

Not in my experience. Bullwinkle says this above also... but I've had heavy fires/heavy damage show up on ships in port lots of times. They ships don't always sink. At Pearl, I don't count them as sunk based on fires. The port is just too good with Allied DC. Now, those fires will burn up System damage points and make it take a longer time for the ship to be repaired but... Killing Allied ships via fire just isn't reliable. Especially if it just says "on fire, heavy damage" - unless you know the ship's System damage is >50, I wouldn't count on it.

I'm not sure here, but I think (99% sure!) that if he scuttled the ships, the planes show up as Ops losses rather than Destroyed On Ground. I'm also not sure whether the BBs have Seagulls or Kingfishers, but I thought maybe they had Seagulls on December 7.

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Post #: 17

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 11:33:36 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

That is a very good PH strike. If they're not sunk outright, then many will be later. I'd say you get 2 sunk the next day and 2 more from pumps failing trying to get them back to the mainland. The ones with 4+ TT hits and Arizona. The others I'd put out for around 1.5-2 years since so many were so badly damaged. Some of the bombs may be 800kg as well, increasing the serious damage for many of them.

With low system, I have yet to lose a BB on the way back to the mainland. Now, I don't try to move them with 70 Floatation, but I have done so with one at 53 recently... And a 48, and a 38. With System at 0, it's just not a big risk. I try to get them to moving 2+ hexes at Cruise before I send them state-side, as it halves the time you're risking them at sea.

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Post #: 18

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/30/2014 11:40:14 PM

dr.hal

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From: Covington LA via Montreal!
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I'm also not sure whether the BBs have Seagulls or Kingfishers, but I thought maybe they had Seagulls on December 7.

They have Kingfishers, all of them at Pearl.

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RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 12:42:00 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1

In my experience, when you see "heavy fires, heavy damage" in the combat
report, the ship almost certainly sank. When it says, "on fire, heavy
damage" the ship probably sank. If not, for a BB it's going to be out
of action for a year or more. You probably have 2-4 BBs sunk here.

If you're playing against the AI, you can find out pretty easily by turning
off Fog of War. Or you can just start the game in head to head mode and
take a look at the other side. That way you'll find out about damage as
well as ships sunk. If you're playing PBEM, you'll have to ask your opponent,
maybe he'll tell you.

-Mark

Not in my experience. Bullwinkle says this above also... but I've had heavy fires/heavy damage show up on ships in port lots of times. They ships don't always sink. At Pearl, I don't count them as sunk based on fires. The port is just too good with Allied DC. Now, those fires will burn up System damage points and make it take a longer time for the ship to be repaired but... Killing Allied ships via fire just isn't reliable. Especially if it just says "on fire, heavy damage" - unless you know the ship's System damage is >50, I wouldn't count on it.

I'm not sure here, but I think (99% sure!) that if he scuttled the ships, the planes show up as Ops losses rather than Destroyed On Ground. I'm also not sure whether the BBs have Seagulls or Kingfishers, but I thought maybe they had Seagulls on December 7.

My observation, worth little in terms of how randoms work here, is a port will roll against Fires on one ship. If successful the subsequent ships have much less chance to have any reduction. The odds of a retrograde in firefighting, where things go south after first getting better, seems to decrease a lot when Fires go under about 25. But that could be lack of data points.

If only one BB is on fire in a port as big as PH I agree it will probably live if Fires are under about 70. If there are 3-4 on fire and a couple are very involved my experience is you'll lose 1-02 of them at least. It's also impossible to tell the port which ships to focus on, so if some DDs and small fry are burning too I don't know how the engine triages.

At sea when I see an IJN ship with "heavy, heavy" I figure it's 90% plus it's a goner. In port it's highly random.

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Post #: 20

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 12:43:55 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

In my experience the reports of damaged and destroyed planes is usually WAY off, sometimes so much so that there are many more damaged planes in the report than were actually in the hex.

My impression was that the "damaged" number increments every time a hit is recorded on a plane that doesn't destroy it. I think of it as one-bullet-one-damaged-plane. I've had over 200 Cats damaged in a PH move before. The same plane can be damaged more than once IOW.

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Post #: 21

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 12:46:45 AM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

That is a very good PH strike. If they're not sunk outright, then many will be later. I'd say you get 2 sunk the next day and 2 more from pumps failing trying to get them back to the mainland. The ones with 4+ TT hits and Arizona. The others I'd put out for around 1.5-2 years since so many were so badly damaged. Some of the bombs may be 800kg as well, increasing the serious damage for many of them.

With low system, I have yet to lose a BB on the way back to the mainland. Now, I don't try to move them with 70 Floatation, but I have done so with one at 53 recently... And a 48, and a 38. With System at 0, it's just not a big risk. I try to get them to moving 2+ hexes at Cruise before I send them state-side, as it halves the time you're risking them at sea.

I left PH with 62 Float and 0 System. Randoms took System to 5 en route, and Float went to 81 (increment was in Minor Float.) Over the rest of the trip the crew reduced System back to 1, and got rid of the Minor Float. The BB made the WC.

OTOH, in our game, I had a cruiser try to go less than 10 hexes with System at 67, and Float in the 50s, and she sank like a rock.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 3/31/2014 1:47:35 AM >

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Post #: 22

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 1:03:11 AM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire In yards for most of the war
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage Sunk
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires Might be sunk if it was 800kg bombs. 50/50
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage 75% chance of being sunk
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Possibly sunk, depending on bomb hits
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

BDA completed, in my limited experience. Probably 4 sunk outright, three more are contenders for being reefs, and another one's going to be a long time in the yards. Take my results with a salt rock, seeing as we don't know the weight of bombs hitting the BB's.

< Message edited by mind_messing -- 3/31/2014 2:03:51 AM >

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Post #: 23

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 4:49:05 AM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
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From: Maryland
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Four kingfishers lost to op losses means two battleships sunk. With fires and a little luck you might get one or two more. From the report, I don't see the Pennsylvania or Tennessee surviving-not with five TT and nultiple bomb hits. Those that took three torpedoes will not sink. The others are possibles if they burn. Might burn for a week or more. I had it happen. Watched two BBs slowly melt away.

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(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 24

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 5:08:04 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Four kingfishers lost to op losses means two battleships sunk. With fires and a little luck you might get one or two more. From the report, I don't see the Pennsylvania or Tennessee surviving-not with five TT and nultiple bomb hits. Those that took three torpedoes will not sink. The others are possibles if they burn. Might burn for a week or more. I had it happen. Watched two BBs slowly melt away.

Scuttled if they're Ops. Sunk outright if they're Ground. But yeah, I'd bet 2 are down.

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 25

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 5:08:44 AM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire In yards for most of the war
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage Sunk
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires Might be sunk if it was 800kg bombs. 50/50
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage 75% chance of being sunk
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Possibly sunk, depending on bomb hits
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

BDA completed, in my limited experience. Probably 4 sunk outright, three more are contenders for being reefs, and another one's going to be a long time in the yards. Take my results with a salt rock, seeing as we don't know the weight of bombs hitting the BB's.

You're not using our game as a measuring stick, are you?

(in reply to mind_messing)

Post #: 26

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 9:45:30 AM

Banzan

Posts: 288
Joined: 3/13/2010
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline

Seriously crippling the old BBs is giving the allied players far mor headache then sinking them. You'll need the PH shipyard a lot and those BBs are "blocking" far too much space. Sending them back to the US isn't an option before they are repaired quite a bit. And if they are back for action, they have long upgrade times.

After upgrading (you can expect them to get ready sometime in mid to late '43), you get some slow BBs with very low crew experience who sometimes make you wonder, if they are even hitting the island they should bombard (and in some cases, with like no tower armor anymore - Nevada class).

< Message edited by Banzan -- 3/31/2014 10:49:17 AM >

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 27

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 10:38:22 AM

jmalter

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline

Repairing crippled BBs from the initial PH attack is a huge logistical prob for the Allies, but will pay off in the battles to come. These old'n'slow BBs will give great service in BombardmentTFs, or as part of an AmphTF, in the future. The shipyard capability in PH isn't capable of repairing them all, but make sure you check its industry, & turn repair ON if the shipyard has been damaged. Don't overload the PH shipyard - let them concentrate on ships w/ lesser damage. Put the highly-damaged ships on Pierside repair - you want to reduce their System damage.
You'll prob'ly need to move some ships to the west coast shipyards for flotation/engine repair - but don't even think of trying that until their Sys damage is less than 10. Change the ship's captain to a v. high Nav skill, move it to the west coast in company w/ ASW escorts, set TF speed to Cruise. Choose wisely about allowing these BBs to upgrade - some of those upgrades take far too long to accomplish.

(in reply to Banzan)

Post #: 28

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 2:34:04 PM

mind_messing

Posts: 3393
Joined: 10/28/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire In yards for most of the war
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage Sunk
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires Might be sunk if it was 800kg bombs. 50/50
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage 75% chance of being sunk
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Possibly sunk, depending on bomb hits
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

BDA completed, in my limited experience. Probably 4 sunk outright, three more are contenders for being reefs, and another one's going to be a long time in the yards. Take my results with a salt rock, seeing as we don't know the weight of bombs hitting the BB's.

You're not using our game as a measuring stick, are you? .

I wanted those BB's intact so you'll feel like conducting a Central Pacific campaign. Those BB's get out of the yard only to be sunk trying to shell some atoll somewhere...

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 29

RE: Pearl Harbor Intel Reports - 3/31/2014 3:49:35 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

Here is the operational report for 12/7/1941 Pearl Harbor Strike.

Allied Ships
CM Oglala
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, on fire In yards for most of the war
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage Sunk
BB California, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires Might be sunk if it was 800kg bombs. 50/50
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
AV Wright, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage 75% chance of being sunk
DD Aylwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage Possibly sunk, depending on bomb hits
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage Sunk
xAP St. Mihel
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1
AVP Avocet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 2
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Bagley, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AG Aries, Bomb hits 2, on fire
AVD Hulbert, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 2
AVP Swan, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Blue, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
SS Tautog, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

BB Pennsylvania and BB Tennessee each got hit with 5 torpedoes and 16 bomb and 6 bombs respectively. They should sink?

BDA completed, in my limited experience. Probably 4 sunk outright, three more are contenders for being reefs, and another one's going to be a long time in the yards. Take my results with a salt rock, seeing as we don't know the weight of bombs hitting the BB's.

You're not using our game as a measuring stick, are you? .

I wanted those BB's intact so you'll feel like conducting a Central Pacific campaign. Those BB's get out of the yard only to be sunk trying to shell some atoll somewhere...