Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please

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Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 3/31/2014 10:31:50 PM

CrackSabbath

Posts: 111
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From: Aridzona
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Any advice what to do w/all the old 4-pipers as conversions which become avaible in 1942 for the Clemson and Wickes class DDs?

I'm leaning heavily towards DE as Japanese subs are wreaking havoc w/my logistics chain. APD's will be handy once I start gaining the initiative and starting some decent amphib operations. AVD's are nice for those forward bases and they can schlep some supplies at a fast rate when needed. Still, I need to start killing or at least scaring off those damn subs . . .

Your thoughts?

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 3/31/2014 10:41:54 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrackSabbath

Any advice what to do w/all the old 4-pipers as conversions which become avaible in 1942 for the Clemson and Wickes class DDs?

I'm leaning heavily towards DE as Japanese subs are wreaking havoc w/my logistics chain. APD's will be handy once I start gaining the initiative and starting some decent amphib operations. AVD's are nice for those forward bases and they can schlep some supplies at a fast rate when needed. Still, I need to start killing or at least scaring off those damn subs . . .

Your thoughts?

I like them all as APDs, for reasons mentioned in the other thread here on ship conversions for Japan, but it goes doubly so for the Allies. APDs are the only way to take advantage of Fast Transport TFs as the Allies (outside of CM Abdiel for the first year of the war), and the only way to get these early is convert those Clemsons.

As an added benefit, the APD conversion is the best ASW option as well, with a rating of 6.

(in reply to CrackSabbath)

Post #: 2

RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 3/31/2014 11:12:24 PM

nashvillen

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From: Christiana, TN
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To echo what Lokasenna said. The best thing to do with the Clemson/Wickes DDs (old four pipers) is to convert them to APDs. It gives you a ASW 6 unit which you don't get until later, and a nice fast transport unit. Great for moving port service units and other small low equipment units.

Downsides are their range and they don't go into Cargo TFs.

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 3/31/2014 11:24:06 PM

CrackSabbath

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From: Aridzona
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Ahhh! I'd forgotten they still have decent ASW capapbilites when converted to APD (quite good when compared to most Allied DD's in '41 early '42). My shipyards are about to get some rush orders.

Thanks for the advice!

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 12:47:38 AM

rustysi

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quote:

Downsides are their range and they don't go into Cargo TFs.

Another plus for the Japanese APD's, they will go into cargo TF's. Guess what they haul too.

Go ahead ask me how I know.

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 2:14:41 PM

Lecivius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Downsides are their range and they don't go into Cargo TFs.

Another plus for the Japanese APD's, they will go into cargo TF's. Guess what they haul too. Go ahead ask me how I know.

Ok. How do you know?

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Post #: 6

RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 6:40:13 PM

bush

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From: san jose, ca
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I prefer the DE conversion. The reason is they can serve as an escort for the faster xAPs and will cruise at a "4" so the transports can move at that rate. An APD will curise at a "3".

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 9:12:03 PM

LargeSlowTarget

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Short-ranged version = APDs, longer-ranged = DEs with some punch against raiders.

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 10:59:02 PM

rustysi

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Downsides are their range and they don't go into Cargo TFs.

Another plus for the Japanese APD's, they will go into cargo TF's. Guess what they haul too. Go ahead ask me how I know.

Ok. How do you know?

Had nothing else to escort a resource convoy, put 'em in there and... Pure dumb luck!!

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 11:06:33 PM

jmalter

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in addition to the APD conversions, search through all your USN APs & xAPs. Some of these can convert early to APAs, invaluable in any Amphib riposte. So ear-mark these convertible guys, don't use them in risky operations, & get them back to Mare Island in good time to begin the conversions.

(in reply to rustysi)

Post #: 10

RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/1/2014 11:49:06 PM

mind_messing

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jmalter

in addition to the APD conversions, search through all your USN APs & xAPs. Some of these can convert early to APAs, invaluable in any Amphib riposte. So ear-mark these convertible guys, don't use them in risky operations, & get them back to Mare Island in good time to begin the conversions.

Also of note are a couple of British/Commonwealth AMC's that convert to LSI's or somesuch.

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Post #: 11

RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/2/2014 3:21:09 AM

CrackSabbath

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I'll do something like a 60/40 split LR DE to APD. I do know how crucial the APA's will be once they're available, so those AP's are definitely reserved for lower risk ops.

Thanks for the advice!!

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/2/2014 11:43:11 AM

Feltan

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From: Kansas
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Just pointing out that you can have some fun and keep them as DD's and upgrade. The Allies will be flush with APD's and DE's later on anyway.

I know that it is conventional wisdom to convert them; can't really argue the point. However, there is more than a little satisfaction to be gained having the old four pipers belching smoke as they go into surface combat with guns blazing. Some fast DD SAGs can upset Japanese transport plans pretty easy.

Major PBEM bragging rights too: "HA! Tojo, like that? Just wait until the Fletchers show up!"

Give it a try. Or more importantly, don't sweat it -- there isn't a wrong way to use them in my opinion.

Regards,
Feltan

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/6/2014 3:33:09 PM

pontiouspilot

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Interesting advice...I just assumed that the DE was a no brainer for anti sub. I lean to Feltan's thinking as they are still useful in surface TFs during the IJN expansions early on .....and face it, they are expendable.

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RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/15/2014 5:17:37 AM

wneumann

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quote:

in addition to the APD conversions, search through all your USN APs & xAPs. Some of these can convert early to APAs, invaluable in any Amphib riposte. So ear-mark these convertible guys, don't use them in risky operations, & get them back to Mare Island in good time to begin the conversions

+1

I'd go with the DE conversion if I was doing this all over again. Most of mine went to APD's with some remaining as DD. It's not that the APD is useless but with LST's and all the other amphibious ships around the APD's become small and redundant.

< Message edited by wneumann -- 4/15/2014 6:22:24 AM >

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Post #: 15

RE: Clemson/Wickes Upgrades - Advice Please - 4/15/2014 2:10:07 PM

Bullwinkle58

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wneumann

quote:

in addition to the APD conversions, search through all your USN APs & xAPs. Some of these can convert early to APAs, invaluable in any Amphib riposte. So ear-mark these convertible guys, don't use them in risky operations, & get them back to Mare Island in good time to begin the conversions

+1

I'd go with the DE conversion if I was doing this all over again. Most of mine went to APD's with some remaining as DD. It's not that the APD is useless but with LST's and all the other amphibious ships around the APD's become small and redundant.

Not in 1942. Invaluable then. Especially paired with Marine Raiders. APDs are great in the Aleutians if there is enemy air cover. They get in and out. The southern Marshalls. Lots of places.

If you guys would use the off-map more you wouldn't need many convoy escorts. But that drum has been beaten enough.

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