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RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not?

 
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RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/30/2014 11:14:37 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		The last A-7 of the strike radios to the Nimitz:
"Scratch 6 Flattops!"




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< Message edited by acb3 -- 3/31/2014 12:15:06 AM >

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 31
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/30/2014 11:15:37 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		And as the Nimitz strike group returns home the IJN First Wave is starting to return, low on gas, but with no where to land…





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 32
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/30/2014 11:17:28 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		And below is the tally:

SIDE: IJN
LOSSES:
-------------------------------
144x Nakajima B5N2 Kate
133x Aichi D3A2 Val
108x Mitsubishi A6M2 Type 0 Zero
1x IJN Hiryu
5x IJN Kagero
1x IJN Tone
1x IJN Soryu
1x IJN Zuikaku
1x IJN Kagi
1x IJN Shokaku
1x IJN Akagi

SIDE: Nimitz
LOSSES:
-------------------------------
10x F-14A Tomcat
11x A-7E Corsair II

Some serious losses to the Nimitz Air Group - especially if they don't return to 1980.

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 33
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/30/2014 11:18:01 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		This ending lends itself better to the strategic big picture.
1. The Japanese attacked first and when added to their attacks in other areas of the Pacific will probably generate the same public outcry. Perhaps the rallying cry will be "Remember the Tennessee!"
2. The IJN striking power has been gutted with its 6 main carriers on their way to the bottom. The naval battle against the IJN going forward will be much more manageable - especially if the Nimitz sticks around.
3. If the Nimitz sticks around she will definitely give the US a leg up technology wise against the Axis - but if not FDR can use smoke and mirrors to intimidate the Axis with the US's alleged super weapons.

This run thru was a lot of fun. Got frustrated with my mistakes over Pearl but by the time of the A-7 runs on the IJN Fleet I was on the edge of my seat with each bomb run. The last A-7, on the last bomb run, sank the last IJN carrier - can't get better timing in a movie.

Some Lessons Learned:
1. When launching a large strike/many AC - first send to a patrol staging area to wait for all AC to get airborne before releasing on the actual strike mission. Ensures strike does not go out in smaller packets as AC launch and instead goes out all together.
2. If tankers present set AC/mission to no refueling when actual strike starts to prevent early return to tanker.
3. If want Fighter AC to use guns turn off RTB Winchester to prevent RTB on AAM exhaustion
4. Computer chugging to run everything at 1 sec - impossible to stop/change elevation but no crash w/recorder off.
5. Auto targeting specific ships does not appear to override the Mission target list BUT Manual targeting weapons AFTER unassigning from missions does work.
6. Wish for scenario events system - assign same AC to multiple sequentially triggered missions. Or is this possible now?

One more test to do - redirect the IJN First Wave to attack the Nimitz.
Maybe the CO of the Nimitz contacts the IJN Fleet and tries to "talk" them out of their attack. Instead the IJN Fleet somehow locates the Nimitz and sends the first wave against her instead of Pearl. 24 F-14s vs the First Wave. At least I won't have to manually target the IJN Vals and Kates…

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 34
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/31/2014 12:29:08 AM   
mikmykWS

 

Posts: 11524
Joined: 3/22/2005
Status: offline 		Really cool AAR. Thanks!

Mike

_____________________________


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Post #: 35
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 3/31/2014 10:41:39 AM   
NickD

 

Posts: 163
Joined: 2/14/2014
Status: offline 		Seeing the Pearl Harbor attack force in Command is rather chilling. Thanks for posting this AAR.

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 36
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/1/2014 9:48:12 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Very nice AAR!

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to NickD)
Post #: 37
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/1/2014 9:51:19 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		acb3: Is this scenario available for us unwashed public? I'd love to tinker with it.

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 38
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/1/2014 3:18:55 PM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		IIRC, in the movie the Nimitz has Vigilante recon aircraft, not RF-8s.

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 39
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/2/2014 3:53:56 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

Is this scenario available for us unwashed public? I'd love to tinker with it.


Sardaukar - Are you a Certified Time Travel Simulator?
A scenario like this in the wrong hands could cause irrevocable damage to the movie.
Look what happened to Star Trek...

I have a few more tweaks I need to do and then I will release it to the wild. Hopefully a better scenario editor than me can really bring it to life and make it competitive. Also, if there is a way to sequentially activate/deactivate multiple missions using the same AC then the Japanese can really be automated.

Primarchx - Just reviewed the movie on Netflix. Here is a clip from the Pearl overflight scene. I think it looks like an RF-8 - but I could be wrong.




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< Message edited by acb3 -- 4/2/2014 4:55:29 AM >

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to Primarchx)
Post #: 40
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/2/2014 6:44:37 AM   
.Sirius


Posts: 1404
Joined: 1/18/2013
Status: offline 		Thats a defo RF-8 Crusader guys
quote:

ORIGINAL: acb3

quote:

Is this scenario available for us unwashed public? I'd love to tinker with it.


Sardaukar - Are you a Certified Time Travel Simulator?
A scenario like this in the wrong hands could cause irrevocable damage to the movie.
Look what happened to Star Trek...

I have a few more tweaks I need to do and then I will release it to the wild. Hopefully a better scenario editor than me can really bring it to life and make it competitive. Also, if there is a way to sequentially activate/deactivate multiple missions using the same AC then the Japanese can really be automated.

Primarchx - Just reviewed the movie on Netflix. Here is a clip from the Pearl overflight scene. I think it looks like an RF-8 - but I could be wrong.






_____________________________

Paul aka Sirius
Command Developer
Warfaresims
Cold War Data Base 1946-1979 Author

Old radar men never die - Their echoes fade away in accordance with the inverse fourth power law

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 41
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/3/2014 10:24:31 PM   
Kingfish72


Posts: 6
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		I'd accept it in whatever form it's in right now.


quote:

ORIGINAL: acb3

quote:

Is this scenario available for us unwashed public? I'd love to tinker with it.


Sardaukar - Are you a Certified Time Travel Simulator?
A scenario like this in the wrong hands could cause irrevocable damage to the movie.
Look what happened to Star Trek...

I have a few more tweaks I need to do and then I will release it to the wild. Hopefully a better scenario editor than me can really bring it to life and make it competitive. Also, if there is a way to sequentially activate/deactivate multiple missions using the same AC then the Japanese can really be automated.

Primarchx - Just reviewed the movie on Netflix. Here is a clip from the Pearl overflight scene. I think it looks like an RF-8 - but I could be wrong.





(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 42
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/3/2014 11:00:37 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kingfish72

I'd accept it in whatever form it's in right now.



Will try to clean it up for upload this weekend.

Currently playing thru the last option - IJN Strike vs Nimitz simultaneous w/Nimitz response.
100's of AC in the air slowing things down.
I don't think the Nimitz Fighters/AC have enough ordnance (AAM/Bullets) to stop the flood.

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to Kingfish72)
Post #: 43
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/4/2014 12:38:00 AM   
Primarchx


Posts: 3102
Joined: 1/20/2013
Status: offline 		You're right on the Crusader. Must be getting old. I could of sworn Kirk Douglas asked for a Vigilante to take a look at Pearl, but it's a Crusader.

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 44
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:42:01 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Now for the last test - the IJN First and Second waves attack the Nimitz.

In the movie the Nimitz captured one of the Zero pilots and brought him back to the ship with the yacht survivors. Later during questioning he overpowered his guard and held the survivors hostage. His demand was to radio his fleet but he became distracted when the CAG thru an interpreter described in detail the upcoming IJN attack. A marine tried to take advantage and gunfire was exchanged - 1 Marine and 1 Japanese pilot dead.

Now instead the pilot gets his demands, they let him radio his fleet, and he warns them and maybe somehow relays the lat/long of the Nimitz secretly. The IJN Admiral agrees to call off the Pearl attack, but as the Hawkeye monitors the first wave instead of seeing them return to the IJN carriers they turn west.

Adm Nagumo recognizes the Nimitz as the greater threat and unleashes the already airborne First Wave on her…





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Post #: 45
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:42:46 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		In response the Nimitz launches all available F-14s and redirects the previously launched Pearl CAP group to intercept the IJN First Wave.





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 46
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:43:35 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		The two F-14 groups contact the First Wave almost simultaneously and start launching Phoenixes and Sidewinders.

Pearl CAP Group:





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 47
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:44:14 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Nimitz CAP Group:




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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 48
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:45:02 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		A massive furball ensues. In the meantime the Nimitz launches her strike group (A-6s/A-7s) against the IJN Fleet and IJN starts launching its Second Wave to strike the Nimitz - both groups initially forming up in patrol areas away from the air battle.

My computer is starting to smoke…





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 49
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:45:51 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Many things are happening (slowly) now at the same time.

In the air battle with the First Wave the F-14s are starting to run out of bullets (AAM/Cannon) and RTB Winchester. Also some of the First Wave has turned around due to fuel issues - the strike for them was at extreme range following their initial launch/form up to attack Pearl. In hindsight if I had realized most of the First Wave did not have the legs to reach the Nimitz, I would have saved the F-14s for the greater threat of the Second Wave.

To address this issue I divert the A-7 Strike Squadrons to fly thru the 2nd wave and expend their x2 AAMs and cannons to try to whittle it down. It won’t be enough though considering my percentages to hit range from 20% to 50%. Too many targets and not enough bullets.

The A-6s with no anti-air armament continue their attack run on the IJN Fleet coming in from the north of the 2nd Wave.




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< Message edited by acb3 -- 4/5/2014 8:01:01 AM >

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 50
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:46:54 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Since this is my third try at attacking the IJN Fleet I know exactly what to do. I unassign and then manually target x2 A-6s (each w/2 Walleyes) per each IJN Carrier. Here we see 1 Carrier to the North (Soryu) sinking and x6 more Walleyes inbound.





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Post #: 51
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:47:34 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Here the Hiryu is sinking and the remaining carriers are in various states of damage and targeted by numerous more Walleyes. In the end 5 carriers were sunk and 1 heavily damaged on its way to imminent sinking.





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Post #: 52
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:48:12 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Even though 5 IJN CVs were sinking, there was no celebration on the Nimitz. The majority of her AC were Winchester and a multitude of IJN AC were still streaming towards the Nimitz. The first to arrive were a pair of Zeroes - a BPDMS launcher cuts loose with its Sea Sparrows. Here we see the 2nd Zero about to be shot down, while Nimitz AC are landing in the background.





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 53
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:48:55 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Even though the IJN Aircraft are shot down, some Sea Sparrows miss and the Nimitz is expending too many considering the number of IJN AC still coming. In this image the first Kate and Val arrive - both armed w/bombs originally intended for the 2nd Waves land strike on Pearl. The first BPDMS launcher is empty so the Nimitz has to change course to unmask another launcher. An A-6 is in the background on approach.





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 54
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:49:45 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Too many misses and the Nimitz has to change course again to unmask the last BPDMS launcher. Eventually the last launcher is exhausted and there is no active defense - until some F-14s are rearmed.

Below 3 Val dive bombers have finished their bomb runs w/250kg bombs - some hit/some miss. The Nimitz experiences fires and flooding and is starting to get damaged.





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 55
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:50:33 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		After the Vals finish their bomb runs they don't RTB - instead they start circling the Nimitz and strafing her. At first I thought these attacks were futile, but then I started seeing reports of AC being destroyed. I then realized the Vals were strafing the recently landed aircraft on the deck. Shades of Midway and the US attack on the IJN CVs with decks full of AC…





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 56
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:51:34 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		More Vals and Kates arrive and commence bomb runs, while others continue to circle and strafe the Nimitz. This combination is not good - some of the elevators are damaged, aircraft continue to be destroyed, and Nimitz overall damage has grown to 10% amidst the fire and flooding. Looking to the east there are still many IJN AC streaming towards the Nimitz.





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(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 57
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 6:52:20 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		Finally amidst the attacking IJN AC a rearmed F-14 is launched. The next F-14 will not be ready for another 8min - an eternity. Up to this point I had let the AC be controlled by the AI, but I realized I would need to take manual control of this F-14 if the Nimitz was to have a chance…




With both me and my computer burned out, I saved the scenario to continue the story of the lone F-14 vs. the multitudes of IJN bombers at a later time.
Stay tuned...


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by acb3 -- 4/5/2014 7:53:17 AM >

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 58
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 7:12:01 AM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		This doesn't look promising (damage to air facilities on Nimitz)




Rearming AC on the flight deck with Vals buzzing around strafing - not very healthy.

Any plans to add kamikaze options for AC?

Bedtime here...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by acb3 -- 4/5/2014 8:16:40 AM >

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 59
RE: AAR - Tora, Tora, Tora - not? - 4/5/2014 2:12:42 PM   
acbennett3


Posts: 352
Joined: 12/21/2004
From: Montana
Status: offline 		In the meantime for those who want to play with the scenario/sand box in its present form see attached.

Here is some scenario/status info:
Scenario Settings
1. IJN
a. First Air Fleet 20kts to close Pearl
b. Fleet CAP 6 A6M2 from each Carrier at 1/3 - 12 Zeroes airborne relative CAP box w/IJN Fleet
c. First Strike defined
i. Armed for Maritime strike
ii. Pearl Maritime Strike Mission 0600 Local 12/7/41
d. Second Wave defined
i. Land strike
ii. Pearl Land Based Strike Mission 0715 Local 12/7/41
e. Proficiency Veteran
f. EMCON all passive - did not get around to removing radars
g. IJN Fleet course south/20kts
h. Unlimited ammo at bases turned on
2. US
a. Pearl BBs
i. Remove all sensors except Mk1 eyeball
ii. Remove all ammo for late war AAA
iii. Did not add CA/CL/DD and ground AAA installations yet
b. Land Facilities
i. Hickam Field 15th Pursuit Grp - 4 squadrons 60 P-47s - targets
ii. NAS Ford Island - Patrol Wing 2 - 45 PBY - targets
iii. M1A1 90mm AAA batteries - radars removed
c. Proficiency Average
d. EMCON Radar Active for Nimitz
e. Nimitz course North 0kts/no AC armed
f. Unlimited ammo at bases turned on

Some things I want to try
1. Manually take control of the IJN attack and see how well I can do
2. Put one or more US 1941 CVs in Pearl and see how that works
3. Put one or more US 1941 CVs near Pearl for a counterstrike if Wildcats, etc in CWDB
4. Sortie the US BBs and fleet and see what the IJN can do against that - including a big gun battle.

The more historical what-ifs are growing like rabbits...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by acb3 -- 4/5/2014 3:19:09 PM >

_____________________________

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
Santayana

(in reply to acbennett3)
Post #: 60
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