Hilly LOS serious problem

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Lock ‘n Load: Heroes of Stalingrad >> Tech Support >> Hilly LOS serious problem

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Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/12/2014 4:42:31 AM

jonj01

Posts: 233
Joined: 2/21/2014
Status: offline

There is another serious self consistency bug in the LOS program for 1,09.

If you draw LOS from a hill to a ground hex(with various ground level obstructions) The LOS is clear, (as it should be). However, if you draw a LOS from the same ground level hex to the same hill hex the LOS is blocked.

Same two hexes...one can fire on the other ..the other cannot fire because its "LOS" is blocked.

This is a problem...everyone and their dog will set up on the hill because they are immune to fire from the ground.

Anyway the LOS is not solved at all for hills.

Post #: 1

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/12/2014 10:35:43 AM

Barthheart

Posts: 3194
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Nepean, Ontario
Status: offline

Is this for all hills or a specific hill ground combo?

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(in reply to jonj01)

Post #: 2

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/12/2014 2:03:04 PM

jonj01

Posts: 233
Joined: 2/21/2014
Status: offline

It happens always. Always.
It happens on every map. load a few of laskas maps(from SL) and you will see.

It only takes a couple of minutes in the editor to test this. load any map.
1) go to any map with a few clear hexes in front and behind a wheat or woods hex.
2) hit f1 for terrain.
3) put a level 5 hex in there.
4) draw line of site from the hill hex to a hex two hexes behind the woods or wheat hex..clear los
5) draw line of site from the clear hex behind woods hex to hill...blocked.

this happens because of the way the LOS is determined by the los program....the program seems to draw a line. Check the LOS hex by hex (starting from the hex the LOS is draw from) until it reaches a "Blocking" terrain..then it stops.
this probably saves time for the program.
which works fine on ground level.

What the program needs to do is either check the LOS from both directions and if it is clear in one direction...it is clear in both.

This might slow the program some if the LOS for a scenario is not established when the scenario is saved. But I'm pretty sure it is. So It would just take longer to save a scenario...no big thing.

A more convoluted approach would be:
have the program needs determine which hex is higher level.
IF one hex is higher level
THEN begin LOS check from higher level.
And if LOS is clear from the higher level to the lower level hex.
THEN LOS if clear for both directions.

If no higher level hex then proceed normally.

May be faster but a bigger pain to code.. i would think.

Anyway it has to be fixed...the game is unplayable on any map with hills right now.

< Message edited by jonj01 -- 4/12/2014 3:17:20 PM >

(in reply to Barthheart)

Post #: 3

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/12/2014 10:42:57 PM

Tom Proudfoot

Posts: 1357
Joined: 4/25/2000
From: Alameda, CA
Status: offline

Never mind, I see it.

< Message edited by Tom Proudfoot -- 4/13/2014 4:56:29 AM >

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Post #: 4

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/14/2014 2:56:49 PM

usgrandprix

Posts: 97
Joined: 3/21/2014
From: Indianapolis
Status: offline

Hi. In case it helps, I'm having an issue with los being blocked down but not up. I attached some screens.

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Tom Proudfoot)

Post #: 5

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/14/2014 3:23:29 PM

jonj01

Posts: 233
Joined: 2/21/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: usgrandprix

Hi. In case it helps, I'm having an issue with los being blocked down but not up. I attached some screens.

Yes, I checked it myself with laskas ASL-BC-002b.mpp.....the program makes a blind hex (level 0) behind a level 1 hex..from a level 2 hex. As the rules provide for.
But when the LOS is checked from ground to level 2..no blind hex is included.

So there are two problems...1) the program thinks the LOS is blocked when its not...from path obstacles.

and 2) the program thinks it is clear when its blocked due to blind hexes.

maybe both of these can be fixed by checking the LOS in both directions when saving the game.
a)with blind hexes apply the blocked one to both LOS traces.
b) with path obstacles apply the clear one to both LOS traces

what this really comes down to is HOW the program does the LOS traces. It seems to go hex by hex comparing pairs of hexes down the line, until it reaches an blocking terrain. It applies an additional process for hills to ground(adding blind hexes)

Very complicated.

Tom,

perhaps you contact this guy
Rodney Kinney (rkinney@msi-world.com)
he did the programming for VASL and I tried their LOS program which has a bunch more stuff to worry about ...and it worked pretty well.

he might have an easy fix for you.

then again maybe he used an empirical approach...they have over 200 freakin boards so I don't know how he used an empirical approach...it would take over 1000 hours to go hex by hex.

< Message edited by jonj01 -- 4/14/2014 4:26:56 PM >

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Post #: 6

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/19/2014 1:31:43 AM

Tom Proudfoot

Posts: 1357
Joined: 4/25/2000
From: Alameda, CA
Status: offline

OK, there were two bugs in the LOS stuff that were interacting with each other and causing this, I think it's fixed now - if you want to give it a try and see if it works for your crazy tons-o-hill maps, you can grab it here.

(This is .exe only, unzip over a 1.09 install, will be labeled 1.09b and is a debug version so runs a little slower and is incompatible in multiplayer with 1.09, you know, details. :P )

Anyway, let me know. I have a couple more things I want to get in 1.10, but wanted to see/verify if this fix works. Thanks.

(in reply to jonj01)

Post #: 7

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/19/2014 2:55:32 AM

jonj01

Posts: 233
Joined: 2/21/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Proudfoot

OK, there were two bugs in the LOS stuff that were interacting with each other and causing this, I think it's fixed now - if you want to give it a try and see if it works for your crazy tons-o-hill maps, you can grab it here.

(This is .exe only, unzip over a 1.09 install, will be labeled 1.09b and is a debug version so runs a little slower and is incompatible in multiplayer with 1.09, you know, details. :P )

Anyway, let me know. I have a couple more things I want to get in 1.10, but wanted to see/verify if this fix works. Thanks.

What a GD hero you are Tom! I will install this ASAP...sorry i've been such a pain in the neck with the LOS stuff.

(in reply to Tom Proudfoot)

Post #: 8

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/19/2014 4:35:33 AM

jonj01

Posts: 233
Joined: 2/21/2014
Status: offline

Just tried this patch out...it does a great job at doing the LOS...
you just can't play anygames or save any scenarios..using 1.09b version.

I use Windows 7 64x so this may be the root of the problem.

Good job..it does the LOS right...I checked that.

(in reply to jonj01)

Post #: 9

RE: Hilly LOS serious problem - 4/19/2014 9:08:36 AM

fran52